Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer Hi everyone, I'm here to announce that we have offically debuted our company's (Tinkerine Studio) flagship 3D printer at Vancouver's Mini Maker Faire 2012 this past weekend. We are a newly founded company with background in industrial and interaction design. However, I personally have been in the reprap community for about a year and a bit now. Ditto came out from some limitations and inspirations of open source machines with an emphasis on addressing the usability and friendliness of current open source printers. We are proud to be able to provide the community with another printer and hope to create and help the community grow on both the mechanical and software side (UI design). What we plan on doing is releasing the files to the community on our website once we have finalized all the BOM and build orders. With that said, give us a little bit of time before that is all ready as we prep to launch our machine both on our website at www.tinkerines.com and on indiegogo. The build space for Ditto is the following: X: 190mm Y: 180mm Z: 220mm With the open design, we are still able to get quality prints of 0.2mm layer height at a speed of 60mm/s. This isn't the limit of the machine and we feel it can definitely go faster and if wanted, go even further on layer height resolution down to about 0.1mm. I'll be posting more information regarding the specs tomorrow on the printer. Since we just finished the Vancouver Mini Maker Faire I'll leave everyone with a few photos of both our machine and some of the others at the 3D Printer Village. [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438164578/][img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5119/7438164578_8364e39f5f.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438164578/]Ditto Beta- Pine[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438165462/][img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8165/7438165462_c69d85c9e1.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438165462/]Ditto Beta- Acrylic[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438173716/][img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5454/7438173716_5bcc85e0a9.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438173716/]Darwin![/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438170750/][img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5079/7438170750_4234173f9b.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438170750/]BFB 3D Touch[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438172806/][img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5342/7438172806_d473480fd3.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438172806/]emaker huxely[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438169854/][img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8016/7438169854_a2bb49921f.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438169854/]Tantillus[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438171716/][img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7246/7438171716_48351b9c45.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecsuyu/7438171716/]Johns Prusa and Thing-o-matic[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/ecsuyu/]ECSuyu[/url], on Flickr https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,139693#msg-139693 Mon, 05 Oct 2026 08:15:36 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,148353#msg-148353 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,148353#msg-148353
So the prices now stand as the following for the machine kits:


]]> ECSuyu General Wed, 15 Aug 2012 15:51:37 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,145403#msg-145403 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,145403#msg-145403 www.indiegogo.com] . Thanks!


pledge00_header pledge05_keychain

pledge15_tshirt

pledge15_holder pledge20_heater

pledge55_motor pledge85_filament

ditto_wood_kit ditto_acrylic_kit]]> ECSuyu General Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:53:25 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143937#msg-143937 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143937#msg-143937 I see a similar pattern to the banding, faster print speeds show less, but I think it's primarilly because of the temperature of the previous layer as the next is deposited.
I did the 40mm/s print first and didn't turn the fan on, it shows almost no Z banding, but there were some layer inconsistencies as the hotend cooled from it's initial layer temperature.
For the subsequent prints I ran with a fan on and with the same base layer temperature as subsequent layers.
the 80mm/sec print with cooling also shows almost no Z banding, but the backside of the print is extremely uneven becasue the fan doesn't get enough air there to cool it enough before the next layer goes down.
The 60mm/sec print has less banding than the 20mm/sec print both with cooling.
So I'd surmise that it's mostly a function of the temperature of the previous layer as the next is deposited, and although an interesting effect, it's only applicable where layer times are very short.]]> Polygonhell General Sat, 21 Jul 2012 15:33:53 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143808#msg-143808 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143808#msg-143808
@yydoctt- it would be interesting to see some results, I agree that this is probably one of the most lacking in documentation aspects for the community,one that novice users would benefit from.]]> ECSuyu General Fri, 20 Jul 2012 18:15:08 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143804#msg-143804 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143804#msg-143804 I could see noise introduced by the higher print speed potentially hiding it though.
I might see if I can reproduce the results locally this weekend.]]> Polygonhell General Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:44:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143803#msg-143803 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143803#msg-143803 I still think that infill speed can be set very very high if using multiple perimeters without impacting quality (as long as there is minimal resonance in the XY planes - so expect my MendelMax to outperform the Prusa). I am mostly curious to see maximum perimeter speed vs quality which I don't think your test highlights very well. I would prefer to see a model with sharp corners and multiple islands.
I will try to put a test together in the coming week and start a new thread, as I think it will be interesting and its one of the most common questions for newcomers.

In response to your test, I am surprised to see that all speeds show inconsistent stacking of layers and question whether you currently have backlash or Z wobble in your setup. Perhaps you just need to tighten your belts a touch more.]]> yydoctt General Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:41:55 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143801#msg-143801 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143801#msg-143801
Yup, these print are single perimeter prints, nozzle size of 0.35mm, and slic3rs default thread width.]]> ECSuyu General Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:36:19 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143797#msg-143797 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143797#msg-143797
Is this just a single perimeter? What nozzle size? What thread width?]]> billyzelsnack General Fri, 20 Jul 2012 17:11:46 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143783#msg-143783 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143783#msg-143783
Our findings are pretty interesting: At 80mm/s infill speed, Ditto delivers better quality prints than at 40mm/s, and thats at half the print time. However, the time saving from 80mm/s to 100mm/s is only 1 minute on this small object. On top of that, there is significantly more banding when printing at slower speeds.

Though this test is only on a small object, we can say that at this moment Ditto doesn't do well at slower speeds. Around 60-80mm/s is the optimal speed in which we believe Ditto performs the best in terms of both print speed and quality. This might not be the case for other printers, and we will conduct another experiment on the Mendels we have once we get them back up and running.


Speed vs Quality test 1 by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr


Speed vs Quality test 2 by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr


Speed vs Quality test 3 by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr


Speed vs Quality test 4 by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr
]]> ECSuyu General Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:47:20 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143639#msg-143639 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,143639#msg-143639
But we would like to take this time to tell everyone that Ditto is now on indiegogo for anyone that is interested. Support us if you can, as we have tried to incorporate pledges that are meant to benefit everyone at least a little bit.

Ditto - Indiegogo Campaign]]> ECSuyu General Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:09:59 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142907#msg-142907 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142907#msg-142907 > This is the best evidence I have found.
> [www.youtube.com]
> It is printing very fast at "only" 100mm/s and the
> quality looks decent with good fill too, but I
> wonder how often the print is actually achieving
> 100mm/s. If that print took 5 minutes then how
> long would the print of taken at 50mm/s? Overall
> print time and quality is all that matters.

I have a Prusa with a 8mm acrylic plate firmly bolted to the frame (as electronics mount and frame stiffener) and it's not showing any significant vibration at any speed (up to 300 mm/s) - but this is with gentle 1500 mm/s*s acceleration.

I just printed two identical objects, straight pipes with a somewhat complicated internal structures, and these took 3:48 at 50 mm/s and 3:13 at 100 mm/s. They look almost identical (the 100 mm/s is just a little rougher) but the plastic fusion is noticeably worse in the 100 mm/s one, especially in the outer perimeter where the extruder actually ran at that speed. In fact it broke when I used a bit of force to check the strength. So I saved an insignificant amount of time and produced an unusable object. This is why I have been printing at 50 mm/s. (This was with natural 3mm ABS, 265 C, 0.35mm Arcol V4, 0.225 layers and 2.0 W/T)

> Also in my experience even if you can get the
> correct volume of plastic out of the hotend that
> does not mean it is going to properly adhere to
> the layer below at higher speeds. Thread overhangs
> and cornering are particularly troublesome. This
> means the slicing software needs to be smarter
> about going slower in trouble spots and going
> slower of course increases build time.

Exactly. As does using a conservative acceleration value.]]> ttsalo General Sun, 15 Jul 2012 10:35:30 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142835#msg-142835 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142835#msg-142835
However, it should be safe to say that a Mendel can hit 100mm/s infill without an issue, depending on the number of perimeters that the resonance may overlap. Printing perimeters is a different argument, one where a lightweight head without* resonance clearly has the advantage if you want to take the prize for speed.

My point was more of a comparison, which is hard to quantify. A lightweight head can print faster whilst attaining the same quality as compared to a heavier axis. If there are any problems with this statement then please feel free to open a new topic, I think we have gotten a little off topic!]]> yydoctt General Sat, 14 Jul 2012 22:00:34 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142830#msg-142830 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142830#msg-142830
This is the best evidence I have found.
[www.youtube.com]
It is printing very fast at "only" 100mm/s and the quality looks decent with good fill too, but I wonder how often the print is actually achieving 100mm/s. If that print took 5 minutes then how long would the print of taken at 50mm/s? Overall print time and quality is all that matters.

Also in my experience even if you can get the correct volume of plastic out of the hotend that does not mean it is going to properly adhere to the layer below at higher speeds. Thread overhangs and cornering are particularly troublesome. This means the slicing software needs to be smarter about going slower in trouble spots and going slower of course increases build time.]]> billyzelsnack General Sat, 14 Jul 2012 21:02:51 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142825#msg-142825 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142825#msg-142825 There is a lot of talk of the limiting factor being the extruder, but time and time again we see extruders up to the task. For one Lulzbot, for second the age old makergear. The true limiting factor is moving the print head with enough acceleration to reach these high speeds, but most importantly doing this accurately! This is where lightweight XY axes have the advantage and therefore lightweight extruders ;)

I print at 80mm/s on my Prusa because the frame resonance impacts the print quality, not the extruder performance, which can handle printing well above 200mm/s (same extruder as on my MendelMax).]]> yydoctt General Sat, 14 Jul 2012 20:06:04 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142787#msg-142787 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142787#msg-142787 -------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of results are questionable, but 100mm/s
> infill should pose no problem to the majority of
> Prusa's and 200mm/s for more rigid machines, of
> course having a lower speed for perimeters and
> even higher speeds for travel is usually
> beneficial

In my experience the ability of the printer to just move the print head accurately enough at those speeds is not a problem at all, the problem is figuring out how to get the extruder to work reliably and accurately at those speeds. Coming up with fancy frame designs while there are no extruders to take advantage of them makes little sense. I spent some effort chasing the 100+ mm/s speeds but in the end reliably getting strong and accurate results at 50 mm/s won me over...]]> ttsalo General Sat, 14 Jul 2012 14:29:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142661#msg-142661 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142661#msg-142661
We agree with billyzelsnack here in regards to print speed. It's rare to see someone actually printing at 200mm/s. Since we come from a design background we've had quite a bit of exposure to commercial 3D printers, and to this day we have yet to see one that is willing to print at 50mm/s+ to reduce time at the cost of print quality. Even though Ditto has successfully printed at 100mm/s, the average user would probably not do so. What we are after is a balance of print speed to print quality for what we give to the users as a baseline profile for settings; we are not going to constrain them to those settings so they are free to adjust it to their needs. Afterall, the firmware and software are all open source developed by the community.]]> ECSuyu General Fri, 13 Jul 2012 14:56:28 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142647#msg-142647 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142647#msg-142647 billyzelsnack General Fri, 13 Jul 2012 12:28:51 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142643#msg-142643 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142643#msg-142643 -------------------------------------------------------
> It is commonplace for people to post about their
> printers going that fast, but it is not
> commonplace for people to post the results of
> their printers going that fast.

Perhaps in these forums that is true, but on IRC it is certainly commonplace to post the result as a video or an image.
A lot of results are questionable, but 100mm/s infill should pose no problem to the majority of Prusa's and 200mm/s for more rigid machines, of course having a lower speed for perimeters and even higher speeds for travel is usually beneficial]]> yydoctt General Fri, 13 Jul 2012 11:58:03 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142634#msg-142634 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142634#msg-142634 > becoming commonplace for RepRaps to exceed 100mm/s
> (Prusa's) and many cases 200mm/s (MendelMax,
> Ultimaker), the latter should be the benchmark.

It is commonplace for people to post about their printers going that fast, but it is not commonplace for people to post the results of their printers going that fast.]]> billyzelsnack General Fri, 13 Jul 2012 11:04:57 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142557#msg-142557 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142557#msg-142557
Again I would urge you to explore a low-weight (& fast) extruder option, such as Bowden or eMinebea direct mount. I also think I was a bit too harsh on bowden cables, and may be an option you should really consider. After a lot of fine tuning it is possible to minimise the ooze that they are renowned for. I also heard talk of Marlin implementing retract during travel, which should further reduce any ooze.]]> yydoctt General Fri, 13 Jul 2012 04:24:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142534#msg-142534 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142534#msg-142534
Thanks for the correction, you are right, the weight is without the motors as we weighed just the plastic portions as the motor was mounted on the machine. The gears do have some problems at this moment due to the plastic characteristic of acrylic, we are most likely moving towards HDPE or delrin for the gears as they dont squeak during use.

billyzelsnack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's hard to tell scale. It looks like a NEMA17,
> but a NEMA17 would weigh more than 210 on its
> own.
>
> btw. That seems like a good idea laser cutting the
> gears. Probably quite a bit less expensive than
> buying them.]]> ECSuyu General Thu, 12 Jul 2012 21:22:32 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142532#msg-142532 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142532#msg-142532
btw. That seems like a good idea laser cutting the gears. Probably quite a bit less expensive than buying them.]]> billyzelsnack General Thu, 12 Jul 2012 20:16:58 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142531#msg-142531 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,142531#msg-142531
Below is our geared extruder V1 with a ratio of 53:17 without sacrificing build space. It has a self tensioning guided channel for 3mm filament at the moment. The extruder currently weighs about 210 grams (without NEMA17), which for us is a little heavy but we have tested prints with perfect results up to 100mm/s print speed. We have yet to attempt 120mm/s.


Gear Extruder v1 by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr
]]> ECSuyu General Thu, 12 Jul 2012 19:40:55 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141939#msg-141939 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141939#msg-141939
[youtu.be]

and some end result photos

GT2 Pulley by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr


GT2 Pulley by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr
]]> ECSuyu General Mon, 09 Jul 2012 20:04:55 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141684#msg-141684 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141684#msg-141684
@yydoctt, thanks for the suggestion! We will look into that, we would love to lower the weight as much as possible as we are now looking towards a geared drive instead of direct drive, so that motor looks promising.

Give me until early next week to get a video of Ditto printing for everyone. meanwhile we do have our Maker Faire Vancouver video up on youtube. [youtu.be] which does have some actions of Ditto printing. It is a bit limited in the action footage but perhaps a start.]]> ECSuyu General Sat, 07 Jul 2012 19:49:42 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141636#msg-141636 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141636#msg-141636
[www.thingiverse.com]

The motor in this 'thing' looks like it has great potential for bridging the gap between heavy extruders and oozing bowden cables. According to the description you could have almost three of these complete extruders (with hot-ends) for one Wade's extruder, I am yet to see one of these extruders in action though.

Get some videos of 'Ditto' up!]]> yydoctt General Sat, 07 Jul 2012 10:51:35 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141554#msg-141554 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141554#msg-141554 Not too proud to "steal" that idea.......Thanx.:) Oh and I agree with nixing the wire ties I've done some crazy things with wire-ties including holding motorcycles together to get out of the hills but accurate cnc? As an old retrofitter it just sends creepies up my spine. Your machine looks too nice for wire-ties. Good work guys.
Todd]]> tcoleman General Fri, 06 Jul 2012 15:35:35 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141547#msg-141547 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141547#msg-141547

Greg's Extruder Test by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr


Greg's Extruder Test by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr


Greg's Extruder Test by Tinkerine Studio, on Flickr
]]> ECSuyu General Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:18:55 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141545#msg-141545 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141545#msg-141545
I'll be posting photos of our direct drive extruder test, to our surprise the gregs extruder fits perfectly on top of the carriage with zero modifications or the need for an additional mounting plate.]]> ECSuyu General Fri, 06 Jul 2012 14:03:37 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141517#msg-141517 Re: Tinkerine Studio - Ditto 3D Printer https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,139693,141517#msg-141517 The only drawback is you have to cut the old and use a new one if you want to lower the tension, but that's rarely the case.

sample usage :


]]> DeuxVis General Fri, 06 Jul 2012 07:02:57 -0400