[b]The Infuriating Haphazard Release of OPEN SOURCE PROJECT X[/b] - Based On Actual Events An announcement is made by Project X's creators, "OPEN SOURCE Project X has been released, download the design files or buy a kit today!" You, the industrious Maker lunge at the chance to... well... MAKE! A quick read of preliminary documentation reveals that OPEN SOURCE Project X is made from Printed-Parts, Laser Cut Parts, Custom Machined Parts, and Vitamins. Well well! You are in luck! You have a 3D printer, a laser cutter, and a lack of reasonable fear of fire! You will have this thing built in no time! :)-D Let's see here... [b]Printed Parts:[/b] -Some but not all of the printed parts (STLs) can be found on Thingiverse. :S -The missing printed parts can be found on Project X's github -Project X's Github does not host the same STLs that Thingiverse does... Uh... moving on... [b]LaserCut Parts[/b]: -The Laser Cut Parts (DXF files) are not on Thingiverse -GitHub is hosting the LaserCut parts... for the previous generation of Project X... 8-) -Uh... these will work with this generation?... These don't look like the pictures... [b]Custom Machined Parts:[/b] -It is apparent that there are a few important custom machined parts being employed in OPEN SOURCE Project X -No Schematic Drawings. :( -No definitive descriptions on how one would make them, their shape or what they are made of. :S -These bits don't look too complicated, but they are not for sale anywhere... :X [b]B.O.M.[/b] -What's a B.O.M.? X( [b]Build Instructions[/b] -These are the instructions for the previous generation of Open Source Project X... which were never finished/great to begin with... [b]AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!![/b] Here is the Million Dollar Question, Intrepid Reader: [b]IS OPEN SOURCE PROJECT X ACTUALLY OPEN SOURCE?[/b] My Answer: [b]HELL NO![/b] What Are Your Thoughts?: 1. Honestly, if you can't find all the design files for a piece of hardware in one place is that design actually open-source? 2. If there is no B.O.M, is that design actually open-source? 3. If the design uses custom part x, which is available nowhere, and there is no schematic (details) for part x... is that design actually open-source? https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185283#msg-185283 Mon, 15 Jun 2026 04:03:57 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,202750#msg-202750 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,202750#msg-202750 -------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> @VDX: so why not just ignore them? They could
> damage your reputation or something?

... my aim wasn't to publish 3D-content, but more 'educational' aspects or theme-related samples.

So when this caused more work than I was willing to invest and even more discussions, then I've simply dropped this 8-)]]> VDX General Thu, 25 Apr 2013 01:50:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,202701#msg-202701 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,202701#msg-202701
If you edit with something else you still have to publish the preffered format. With blender you still *have* to publish the .blend file. Nothing unclear about 'the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it'. It is not a request, it is the license you agreed to.(it is not 'the author's prerogative' in that case) But afaik you dont have to support the original formats, just your preferred one.

@VDX: so why not just ignore them? They could damage your reputation or something?

Edit: someone mentioned 'openhardware github'.. github can go part of the way, at least.]]> Jasper1984 General Wed, 24 Apr 2013 19:42:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186159#msg-186159 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186159#msg-186159
I was designing complex 3D-parts and (complete animated/simulated scenes and 3D-worlds) in Lightwave for comercial use ... and was designing/developing some of my own constructuions with it too.

When publishing the data, I had to select the export format and mesh-size, so others, not having LW could read it - made this mostly in OBJ or STL ... but had to install a STL-exporter first too 8-)

And then too, some users were claiming the LW-sources ... others wants other native formats ... or started heated discussions like in this thread too :S

So what? -- at last I stopped releasing 3D-objects :(]]> VDX General Wed, 20 Feb 2013 06:11:46 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186131#msg-186131 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186131#msg-186131 -------------------------------------------------------
> I think some of you are confusing producing a
> guide/tutorial for publishing open source designs.
> An open source design simply is a design where the
> source is released, be it Solidworks, Rhino,
> OpenScad, etc.
>
> The designer shouldn't HAVE to walk everyone
> through the whole process to be labelled open
> source, this certainly does not happen with open
> source software.

thats half the problem though if somone releases somthing in solidworks you need a copy of solidwork to open it, and solidworks aint cheap, i've recently heard the argument "well then get the education version", the problem there is you have to provide proof that you are a student in order to obtain a license,
ultimatly if somone releases their source in solid works, then it's not as much of a problem it's just a case of finding somone with solidworks that can convert it for the rest of us]]> thejollygrimreaper General Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:10:00 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186121#msg-186121 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186121#msg-186121
The designer shouldn't HAVE to walk everyone through the whole process to be labelled open source, this certainly does not happen with open source software.]]> yydoctt General Wed, 20 Feb 2013 03:41:39 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186083#msg-186083 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,186083#msg-186083
As a general rule of thumb, engineers, programmers, developers, all tend make lousy documenters because they/we can be too familiar with the product.

Documentation, unless prerequisite knowledge is specified, should always be written for complete newbies.

Don't use jargon, don't use assumed knowledge. Write down every step, then go back and perform the task yourself by following your own steps exactly as they are written, and then make some effort to keep the document up to date with respect to any materiel changes, i.e. up to date links to current firmware versions or STL files.

Sure the document might end up twice as long, but then situations like the one Idolcrasher describes (I've totally experienced that same frustration) will be be dramatically reduced.

And just because something is open source, that shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference!

The ones that make their mark in the world of open source are the ones that provide good documentation and support.]]> TooManyToys General Tue, 19 Feb 2013 23:36:25 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185764#msg-185764 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185764#msg-185764 thejollygrimreaper General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 19:07:10 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185762#msg-185762 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185762#msg-185762
I think it is [insert printer vendor here] who does-not/will-not release a BOM and/or omits STL/DXF files that don't rate calling their machine open source.]]> Idolcrasher General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 18:53:15 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185688#msg-185688 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185688#msg-185688 -------------------------------------------------------
> Akhlut, if someone made a design in Solidworks
> because that is where their skills lie, should
> they then try to reproduce their finished design
> in Blender, or OpenSCAD? Or should people
> designing things for open source avoid solid
> geometry altogether? Is there a solids based CAD
> program that would be acceptable for them to
> design in? If they exported their Solidworks
> source as Step, would that be sufficient? The
> free version of Creo can import STP, so that is
> accessible should you care to learn the software.
> Are there other free programs that can import
> standard CAD formats?

Ian,
Absolutely. I'm not suggesting that people who have expertise with a tool should stop using it. But if you want to publish something and call it open source shouldn't you want the design to be available to as many people as possible? Publish to .step or .iges or another format that a lot of different software packages can access. Makerbot did all their work in Solidworks - look how well their "open source" machine has been iterated by 3rd parties.

As for free tools, I started on 123D beta 5 or 6. It has since gone away and been replaced by Inventor Fusion. Both are free, and both can open a variety of formats. I think Inventor Fusion may be able to open old .sldprt files as well. If you're feeling frisky you can download an education version of Inventor from Autodesk - full functionality for FREE. :)

Are they open source tools? No. But they're quite good tools, ones I'd be happy to pay a reasonable sum for if they weren't free.]]> akhlut General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:17:13 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185686#msg-185686 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185686#msg-185686 Sublime General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 13:05:51 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185679#msg-185679 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185679#msg-185679
Stl is not ideal, as it preserves only the outer shape, but the normal exchange formats in CAD are .IGES and .STEP. Almost all 3D packages read and export those 2 and preserve the hierarchy, so that is what should be used, and firstly IGES which is a U.S.National Bureau of Standards defined format (NBSIR 80-1978) specifically as vendor neutral. Outside CAD, .OBJ is acceptable too.

Openscad dont seem to read IGES but it is a flaw of openscad. About everybody else do.

Aklut is very wrong to say that you need to use opensource software exclusively to do opensource.]]> alj_rprp General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:45:57 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185677#msg-185677 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185677#msg-185677
Release of files is author's prerogative. Whinging about an opensource author's work as "not being good enough opensource" only discourages the author and others watching the work from maintaining and releasing opensource.]]> billyzelsnack General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:42:22 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185675#msg-185675 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185675#msg-185675
+1 Reprap]]> xclusive585 General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:33:28 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185672#msg-185672 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185672#msg-185672 xiando General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:27:07 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185670#msg-185670 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185670#msg-185670 IanJohnson General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:26:42 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185667#msg-185667 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185667#msg-185667 -------------------------------------------------------
> No, I am not Akhlut. I am combating the perverse
> misuse of the open source paradigm by children who
> have a myopic viewpoint.
>
> As far as I know, STL is used by all or nearly all
> of the folks using these prusa-mendel-based
> (loosely speaking) printers. It is the sole format
> usable by all players. It is forward and backward
> compatible by the largest number of design and
> print programs, and therefore it is the universal.

But I agree with Akhlut, that it's not the "source". You cannot easily modify an .stl like you could with the actual CAD file. So, in a perfect world, both should be released.]]> xclusive585 General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 12:08:45 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185663#msg-185663 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185663#msg-185663
As far as I know, STL is used by all or nearly all of the folks using these prusa-mendel-based (loosely speaking) printers. It is the sole format usable by all players. It is forward and backward compatible by the largest number of design and print programs, and therefore it is the universal.

By the way Akhlut, who decided that you are "we" chum? We is the group at large, not some self-contained group of commissars. I was doing open source long before there was a cute name and a bunch of asshat commisssars telling others how to run their lives.]]> xiando General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:58:29 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185658#msg-185658 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185658#msg-185658
Open source to a few isn't open source at all.

.stl's are NOT source.

.stl's are output.

Pushing .stl's out to the public and publishing your design in an out of reach format isn't open source, it's faux open source.

//EDIT HAPPY NOW? I think you set the record for most use of the word "commisars" in a post. Congratulations!]]> akhlut General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 11:39:13 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185639#msg-185639 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185639#msg-185639 discourage your provision of whatever literal source file you use during the design. I would encourage you to provide an stl as well, as primary content, so that those who do not have access to whichever source you use are still able to print and to import into their design software. The point is to provide access to the largest set of people, not to adhere to an overly restrictive political paradigm dictated by some political commissar with an agenda we don't all subscribe to.]]> xiando General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:42:52 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185630#msg-185630 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185630#msg-185630 "The GPL defines this [source code] as the preferred form of the work for making changes in it.". Since continuous work, at any given time except start, is making of modifications to what has been already done, source code most often is, content of the file that the program you work in uses to store state of your work without loss of information. So if you work in OpenSCAD source code is .scad file not .stl.]]> miso General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:05:04 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185629#msg-185629 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185629#msg-185629
No offense, but that's a bit naive. Are you saying that to be open source, we have to provide a computer and training to anyone who wants to get into 3D printing? (No, I know you're not saying that, but it is a natural extension of what you just said)

I'm not arguing that releasing only files openable by an expensive CAD program isn't antithetical to the idea of open source, since it is antithetical, but there are practical limitations to universality. AFAIK, We all require STL for path generation. Hence it is the lowest common denominator.]]> xiando General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 10:04:38 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185621#msg-185621 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185621#msg-185621 -------------------------------------------------------
> here's a theoretical question, i ask mostly
> because i've actually been asked for it before,
> say someone designs something and releases it as
> for example solidworks files? is that considered
> releasing the source? for those who don't know
> solidworks is a rather expensive 3d cad program
> financially out of reach of most of us,

To me open source means open to everyone, not just open to those who can afford to access it.

Releasing solidworks files to the open-source community is akin to someone giving you a ferarri but you don't have a drivers license and can't afford the gas or insurance. Releasing solidworks files is kind of a giant "fuck off poor people" thing.]]> akhlut General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:35:01 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185613#msg-185613 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185613#msg-185613 -------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> say someone designs something and releases it as
> for example solidworks files? is that considered
> releasing the source? for those who don't know
> solidworks is a rather expensive 3d cad program
> financially out of reach of most of us,

Since I have yet to see an equivalent, I base my expectations for released information LOOSELY on the software open source definition.

It is really a lowest common denominator issue. What can most people open? In my view, the answer to that question is a "must". anything else is "added value".

Based on that, and specifically with regards to Mendel derivative printers, I'd say STL at the very minimum, with other files as extras, since STL is the basis for path generation.]]> xiando General Mon, 18 Feb 2013 08:31:35 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185537#msg-185537 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185537#msg-185537 -------------------------------------------------------
> here's a theoretical question, i ask mostly
> because i've actually been asked for it before,
> say someone designs something and releases it as
> for example solidworks files? is that considered
> releasing the source? for those who don't know
> solidworks is a rather expensive 3d cad program
> financially out of reach of most of us,

In my book that counts as releasing the source code. Whatever format your sources exist in, they are your sources.

Though I'd prefer if all source code was usable on GPL software. :-) So out of niceness, someone truly wishing to release their designs should also offer .stl files as an alternative to their proprietary format.]]> xclusive585 General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:35:35 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185534#msg-185534 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185534#msg-185534 thejollygrimreaper General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 22:31:21 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185532#msg-185532 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185532#msg-185532
"I have simply been put off recently by the open source claims a few kit sellers have been throwing"

Understood.]]> xiando General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 21:36:46 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185529#msg-185529 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185529#msg-185529
woah woah woah, I never said I have the best printer. Truly, joking attitudes are sometimes hard to portray in text form. I have built a few really good printers. But I would not call myself the best. I would say my printing ability is average++

I have simply been put off recently by the open source claims a few kit sellers have been throwing on their machines recently.]]> Idolcrasher General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 21:15:18 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185528#msg-185528 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185528#msg-185528 billyzelsnack General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 21:05:37 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185525#msg-185525 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185525#msg-185525
If someone presents an idea for a part (or parts) but fails to provide useful files, then one has two options. beg them until they provide them or use the underlying info to design one's own version. And you can always advise anyone considering their part of the deficiency if your still pissed about it.

I DO understand your frustration. Documentation for the project is lacking. No doubt. It's pretty much self evident that that's the case. Oh well.

The thing is, you've said in other threads that your printer is one of the best, so I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape. It seems very odd to me. I could understand the level of frustration you are displaying if you were a newb, but by your own words elsewhere, you're not.]]> xiando General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:57:11 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185523#msg-185523 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,185283,185523#msg-185523
I agree completely. I am also grateful that folks take time to post up info about their designs.

My disgruntled example was aimed at larger kit machine developers who claim their machine is open source, but is essentially not build-able without essentially self-reinventing the original design.]]> Idolcrasher General Sun, 17 Feb 2013 20:53:13 -0500