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        <title>E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
        <description>Are the E3D V6 clones any good  or am I best just getting a original ?

Thanks Nikki</description>
        <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,622232#msg-622232</link>
        <lastBuildDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2026 07:49:37 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,881710#msg-881710</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,881710#msg-881710</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ E3D don't seem that fussed about clones. Even to the extent of publishing engineering drawings. Just so long as it's sold as an E3D and not having the design sold with a different name.<br />
<br />
[<a href="https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Info/Licensing" target="_blank"  rel="nofollow">e3d-online.dozuki.com</a>]<br />
<br />
The thing with clones is the quality control is iffy. You don't know distant it is from published specification.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>DragonFire</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2021 17:23:53 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,881686#msg-881686</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,881686#msg-881686</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ I've seen some nice prints from clones but E3D tolerances and surface finish requirements are very high quality.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>shanehooper</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2021 00:02:13 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880381#msg-880381</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880381#msg-880381</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Looks like the UK is slapping 20% on all purchases on ebay from other countries(but China's not in the EU)...regardless of any 10 or 15 quid item limit...Them damn Chinese trying to sell us cheap goods...we can't have that we must make everything expensive for our Citizens again!<br />
<br />
bbbbut Minister your already charging them top dollar for everything, they will not stand for it...<br />
tuff let them eat each other...]]></description>
            <dc:creator>MechaBits</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2021 00:49:52 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880373#msg-880373</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880373#msg-880373</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Here's my viewpoint, from my many years in quality assurance: if a particular product has mostly good reviews, with the occasional bad one, there's a fair chance that <u>as a whole</u> the product is a good one and the manufacturer has a good testing system.  If there reviews are an even mix of good and bad (as often found with Chinese E3D clones such as these) then it means that their quality assurance is non-existent.<br />
<br />
The effective result is that when you buy a clone you have a 50:50 chance of getting something that works, else it's a dud.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>David J</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:36:11 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880359#msg-880359</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880359#msg-880359</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Yes previous threads were 2016 when e3d and one or two others made hotends that worked and everyone else sold "e3d v6s" and "j head hot ends" which were all broadly e3d v5 hotends as they are easy to machine/cast in chinesium for about $5 which could work if you re-engineered them a bit and polished the roughly drilled heartbreaks internally.<br />
<br />
Now some of these cloners have made quality hot end products but they have to charge quality prices for them.<br />
<br />
I used to buy cheap printer parts when I was messing about with 3d printers but started buying quality kit when I got a bit more serious, so I've always argued the clones were not always 100% bad they gave people chance to have a dabble cheaply.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>DjDemonD</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2021 04:31:28 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880307#msg-880307</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,880307#msg-880307</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ this is definitely a pre Trianglelab / Mellow thread lol ... or Turnberg 3d or other clones that i literally choose over the original e3d v6 hotends I own ....]]></description>
            <dc:creator>ormerodnewb</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2021 08:00:43 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,672192#msg-672192</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,672192#msg-672192</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ E3D releases their hotends with a -NC license so no, they're not allowing the clones. <br />
<br />
The biggest problem though is clone shops using the E3D name for their inferior goods, it hurts E3D's reputation for having quality products.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>greenman100</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2016 23:37:03 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,672189#msg-672189</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,672189#msg-672189</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Most of the people that post here are from developed countries, with salaries in the thousands a month and most "not all" can afford some quality stuff (original e3d) but for a great majority who lives in 3rd world countries where salaries barely reaches the 200 mark it is out of the question, for them a 200 dollars printer with "clone everything" is their only chance to enjoy this wonderful experience.<br />
<br />
That's what chinese stuff allows, and that's why they exist, surely they should not use someone else brand but if a company does an open source design, they are allowing the copy. E3d can easily make their designs close source and trademark their brand internationally, they will still reach their targeted market and receive some international protection of their brand.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>ggherbaz</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2016 23:16:39 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,672016#msg-672016</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,672016#msg-672016</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ For me there is no choice. My hot ends will come from E3D. I do not want to miss the Gummy Bears! Also, I am convinced we need to support the innovation.<br />
<br />
I am a bit contradictory here. I always feel that the original creators deserve support and credit, so my hot ends are original E3D.<br />
But at the same time I believe that the 3D printer world still has a big open source aspect to it, together we are trying to improve and grow this community.<br />
<br />
So for me, trying to make my own V6 hot end is logical, and I am grateful for the drawings. That is, if I want to experiment or see what works and what does not, in a hot end.<br />
That is for personal use and that is fine.<br />
<br />
Yes it is a pity that the cheap clones are making life difficult, it is a fact of life in any industry by now.<br />
<br />
I am in the process of developing a product myself and know exactly how much things cost to manufacture and those people that say the V6 is way too expensive do not know what they are talking about.<br />
<br />
Lykle]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Lykle</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2016 11:57:07 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,670163#msg-670163</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,670163#msg-670163</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>ggherbaz</strong><br />
Either you set yourself as IBM and find your niche or go global with little margins with the chinese.</div></blockquote>
<br />
There's a 3rd option... be like Apple, Dell, HP, and hundreds of others and get the Chinese to build your product cheaply and sell at a large margin. But, to be fair, this only works when you already have control of a fairly large market.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>frankvdh</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2016 22:52:51 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,670157#msg-670157</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,670157#msg-670157</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Back in the days IBM, COMMODORE and others were charging thousands of dollars for a personal computer, then the chinese took the little chips that took hundreds if not thousands of engineers hours to design and develop and what happened? There is a computer in every home today, as cheap as 200 dollars.<br />
<br />
Commodore is gone, IBM set itself for an specific market, and the rest just learned to live and work with the chinese manufacturers.<br />
<br />
Let's make it clear, no one can compete with them, even if you file for a patent they will use it as toilet paper. The market will reach a point where the designer will utilize chinese manufacturers, set their own QA and just add some small profit to the final product. <br />
<br />
Either you set yourself as IBM and find your niche or go global with little margins with the chinese.<br />
<br />
Just as a note for some of the guys that said 80 bucks is too much, for the last year and a half I have been working on my own hotend and so far after so much complaining of my wife I have spend over a thousand dollars in research and iterations, final design is been made for 200 dollars (only one) and that doesn't count working hours, so mid june coming I will have my own $1,200 hotend.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>ggherbaz</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2016 22:18:54 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668353#msg-668353</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668353#msg-668353</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Not willing to wade in any more on the clone versus genuine debate frankly it's a little old. The world is the way it is. You pays your money and takes your choice. <br />
<br />
On the subject of nozzle hole sizes what I did is buy a set of micro drills and measure them with calipers then size the spurious nozzle possibly lightly drilling it to ensure its not jagged.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>DjDemonD</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2016 10:46:17 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668275#msg-668275</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668275#msg-668275</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>aussiephil</strong><br />
Wow....<br />
<br />
<br />
To the OP....... E3D V6 Clone quality.... Poor to reasonable based on all the threads..... so highly variable would be the correct answer.<br />
<br />
Some attitudes expressed and shown in the thread will absolutely ensure I don't buy certain products now or in the future.<br />
<br />
I didn't buy a clone for my new printer despite the lure of a cheap price and actually ended up buying a DyzEnd hot end that has actually been paired with an E3D titan at the moment...... but then my new printer build is valued well north of 1k and likely is going over 2k before I finish so why try and save a few pennies on a clone.<br />
<br />
However the person building the cheapest possible printer will NEVER lash out and buy a non clone unit so why get worked up...... better to educate where possible then shrug the shoulders and move on...<br />
<br />
One thing missed in many of these threads but demonstrated by a couple people in another hobby of mine is to actually pair with Chinese manufacturing and imposing your own QA to get a quality product that you can then flood the market with.</div></blockquote>
<br />
Im with you on this , some people have a very bad attitude, its too bad they cant make a living out of that, but in the world today you cant make thing in the US/UK without a strong brand awareness anymore ( except if you have a very high tech narrow market ( CPU,GPU and such) and expect profit you have to team up with chinese and get a a good brand awareness.<br />
<br />
Another similar example is the vape world, there are lot of clone and original floating around , all small brand trying to make similar product, none of them are US/UK manucfacturing only a few and they have a brand awareness (DNA by Evolv) and using only a few employers and robotic to stay in the price range others non electronic only out source to chinese and impose they QA, they use brand awareness to fight clone and educate they customer ( educate they customer is not going into forum to point finger at every thread someone make about one of those similar clone product, doing that in fact do more damage than anything).<br />
<br />
Im sorry but the real problem here is not only the clone but E3D... they just steal your market , people chose a full metal hotend even if your plastic one have a similar or better performance, you dont see a lot of people buying real J-head clone now, its all about E3D clone. I was there when they start releasing they full metal hotend and people respond very good to that and they all jump ship to full metal. Even is the J-head was superior people see full metal vs a plastic one and think the full metal is a better quality because its made of metal and they think of other products they own where metal is superior to plastics.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>GroupB</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2016 04:33:53 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668211#msg-668211</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668211#msg-668211</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Wow....<br />
<br />
<br />
To the OP....... E3D V6 Clone quality.... Poor to reasonable based on all the threads..... so highly variable would be the correct answer.<br />
<br />
Some attitudes expressed and shown in the thread will absolutely ensure I don't buy certain products now or in the future.<br />
<br />
I didn't buy a clone for my new printer despite the lure of a cheap price and actually ended up buying a DyzEnd hot end that has actually been paired with an E3D titan at the moment...... but then my new printer build is valued well north of 1k and likely is going over 2k before I finish so why try and save a few pennies on a clone.<br />
<br />
However the person building the cheapest possible printer will NEVER lash out and buy a non clone unit so why get worked up...... better to educate where possible then shrug the shoulders and move on...<br />
<br />
One thing missed in many of these threads but demonstrated by a couple people in another hobby of mine is to actually pair with Chinese manufacturing and imposing your own QA to get a quality product that you can then flood the market with.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>aussiephil</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2016 00:15:36 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668199#msg-668199</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668199#msg-668199</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>JamesK</strong><br />
<br />
...snip...<br />
<br />
The E3D V6 is IMHO (and with apologies to Brian) the best hotend currently available to the DIY market, and it almost certainly took man-years of effort to develop. <br />
<br />
...snip...<br />
</div></blockquote>
<br />
Hello,<br />
<br />
I would have released better J-Head hot-ends and have designs and/or prototypes made.  I just absolutely refuse to spend another dime designing another hot-end so china can profit from it.  I have learned, the hard way, that once china makes a cheap clone of something they flood the market with it and people flock to chinese sellers.<br />
<br />
I am amazed that Ultimachine is still selling RAMPS boards after the chinese clones that tend to burn up.  <br />
<br />
It's both frustrating and sad, really.  <br />
<br />
Best Regards,<br />
<br />
Brian]]></description>
            <dc:creator>reifsnyderb</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2016 22:39:43 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668197#msg-668197</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668197#msg-668197</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Jata</strong><br />
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build. <br />
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan.... <br />
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost. <br />
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.</div></blockquote>
<br />
<br />
I agree completely.  $80 USD is way too much money.  That is if we forget about the fact that many production CNC machines, used to make these parts, cost over $100,000.  Oh, yeah, tooling needs replaced as it wears out.  Tolerances need to be held.  The parts need inspected.  Some parts will have to be scrapped.  Electricity isn't free.<br />
<br />
Oh, yeah.  CNC also has this neat little capability with parts.  By the time you realize that something is wrong, you might not have scrapped just one part.  You just scrapped hundreds or even thousands of parts.<br />
<br />
Yes.  $80 is way too much money to support this.  How about you try it once and get back to us?<br />
<br />
Better yet:  Buy from straight from china.  They will thank you by sending you something.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>reifsnyderb</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2016 22:34:36 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668172#msg-668172</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668172#msg-668172</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Jata</strong><br />
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build. <br />
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan.... <br />
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost. <br />
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.</div></blockquote>
<br />
Hi Jata,<br />
<br />
I don't know your background so I may be wrong, but most people who make comments like the above aren't machinists, haven't tried designing their own hot-ends, and understandably don't have a good idea of what's involved. I'm not a professional machinist, but I have friends that are, and I do have the resources to design and make my own hotends. I've also spent time comparing the drawings that E3D generously make available with what some of the cloners produce. A few things have become pretty obvious:<br />
<br />
The complete hotend is more complicated than you suggest, and it's a critical part of the printer. The clones may look ok from the outside but are often completely different on the inside where it matters, sometimes in ways that show the cloners have little understanding of the physics involved. <br />
<br />
The E3D V6 is IMHO (and with apologies to Brian) the best hotend currently available to the DIY market, and it almost certainly took man-years of effort to develop. <br />
<br />
Creating a similar style of hotend with manual lathes/mills takes hours of work. It would cost hundreds of dollars to pay for the shop time to have a one-off made. <br />
<br />
The CNC stations that can turn them out economically are huge capital investments. You need a large number of sales to have any chance of recouping those costs.<br />
<br />
E3D charge 43 GBP for the part, the other costs (tax and shipping) don't go into their pockets, so that's 63 USD. I'd guess that they have to sub-contract the manufacture, so E3D's profit per sale is likely quite small. For the size of the market, you're getting a bargain.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>JamesK</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2016 20:12:58 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668134#msg-668134</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668134#msg-668134</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Jata</strong><br />
I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build. <br />
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan.... <br />
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost. <br />
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.</div></blockquote>
<br />
yeah i don't imagine they are making much of a profit out of it,<br />
it;s not just a piece of cnc'd aluminium though, there's the heater block, nozzle, thermal break which are also machined  then there is the : screws, washers, heater cartridge, fan , thermistor , ptfe tube , injection molded fan thingy ... etc<br />
<br />
if machine shops in the uk are anything like machine shops in Australia the profit margin on these things things wouldn't be great by the time you account for all the labour ,quality control, after sales support, shipping, etc  i'd be surprised they make enough out of it to be worthwhile]]></description>
            <dc:creator>thejollygrimreaper</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2016 18:00:51 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668090#msg-668090</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,668090#msg-668090</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ I will be begrudgingly ordering an authentic E3D V6 just because I don't want to have to mess with retooling it on my first build. <br />
But seriously, $80 USD for a small CNC'ed piece of aluminum, a few wires, and a fan.... <br />
If it were something more than a heatsink with a hole through it you could make the argument that design and engineering are a significant factor in the cost. <br />
And to say that the clones are stifling innovation is just absurd (in this specific case.) If it were an engineering feat of some sort they would have filed for a patent.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Jata</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2016 16:28:48 -0400</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,624023#msg-624023</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,624023#msg-624023</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ Just ordered a original one. Why, because it is my first printer and the hot end  just needs<br />
to work, so that all the other thinks that are not standard, can be tested.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>amigob</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 15:39:08 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623999#msg-623999</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623999#msg-623999</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ .]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Koko76</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 14:52:43 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623980#msg-623980</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623980#msg-623980</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Koko76</strong><br />If you don't get that you can't make money in a market that won't support it and won't embrace your quality you should be done. </div></blockquote> Could not disagree more! The pure and simple fact that the clones and knockoffs are available in large quantities or beter flood the market means that it becomes harder and harder to understand the price difference. So while the market would support the higher price and beter quality it's unaware of the reasons. So like [the_digital_dentist ] is saying<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong></strong><br /> Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better. They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works</div></blockquote>
<br />
Have a look at the E3D blog, start reading about printing 250grm of carbon and how that completely destroyed a nozzle. Just that simple piece of information would have cost them a minimum of two nozzles and &gt; euro 50 in filament and x hours of work. <br />
<br />
Or read about the new heatbed and the problem with the current heatbeds... <br />
<br />
Major info there to be found, for free because people buy their products..]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Frans@France</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 14:02:13 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623958#msg-623958</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623958#msg-623958</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>reifsnyderb</strong><br />
You are absolutely correct.  A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc.  Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away.  I can't argue with that at all.</div></blockquote>
<br />
My purpose in life is not to support your business. I'm sorry that you can't make money the way that you want, but neither can I. I like the fact that the 3D printing community is pro open source, and that cheap clones are available, because that means that many more people have access to the technology, rather than it being a province of the wealthy. I do get your point that someone somewhere has to pay for research and development... there are lots of people who are doing this for free. This probably means that progress isn't as fast as it could be. Maybe you could use (e.g.) KickStarter to seek out people who can afford to fund your R&amp;D in exchange for early access to better products?<br />
<br />
Or maybe you could sell quality? Buy 100 clone hotends for $10 each and triage them; up to spec go straight to sales, unfixable go back to eBay at $10 each, fix the rest. Sell the good ones for (say) $40 with a certificate/guarantee. If on average it takes you half an hour to measure &amp; fix a hotend, and you get 50% success, you'll make 50*($40-$10) = $1500 for 50 hours work = $30/hr. I know that there's overheads and machine tools and shipping and all the rest to pay for, but I figure that with some simple jigs and tools, you could probably knock the measuring down to 5 minutes, and all the other numbers are (I think) conservative. If you could get to 75% OK for on average 20 minutes work on each, you get to 75*$30 = $2250 for 30 hours = $75/hr.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>frankvdh</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 13:16:57 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623934#msg-623934</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623934#msg-623934</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>reifsnyderb</strong><br />
You are absolutely correct.  A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc.  Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away.  I can't argue with that at all.<br />
<br />
Ok.  I am done.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>the_digital_dentist</strong><br />
The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same.  That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly.  Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better.  They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works.  They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.<br />
<br />
There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great.  After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever.  Heatsink fins on a teflon tube?  Wood parts right next to a heater that runs &gt;200C?  Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing.  The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing.  You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.<br />
<br />
If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer.  If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed.  The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).<br />
<br />
If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs.  If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers.  You can't play in that space.  You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer.  Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises.  Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...</div></blockquote></div></blockquote>
<br />
If you don't get that you can't make money in a market that won't support it and won't embrace your quality you should be done.  You should also stop complaining petulantly in every thread about clones.  I machine stuff for a living in the USA. Lower your costs, I know I could with the equipment I have available.  I don't because I can evaluate the market and see it isn't worth my time. You pulled your prints as some kind of protest?  I make parts like gears every day from mangled ripped up "sample" parts, getting dimensions from a sample is a few minutes work in any shop, in the us or China.  Pulling your prints is a symbolic tantrum.  <br />
It sucks that you can't make the money you want, but whining about it isn't going to fix it.  Certainly won't make anyone want to buy anything you are selling.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Koko76</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:19:31 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623931#msg-623931</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623931#msg-623931</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>reifsnyderb</strong><br />
You are absolutely correct.  A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc.  ...</div></blockquote>
<br />
You just described China.  That's what you chose to compete against.  Are you really surprised that people would rather pay $10 for a hot-end than $60?]]></description>
            <dc:creator>the_digital_dentist</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:17:39 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623921#msg-623921</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623921#msg-623921</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ You are absolutely correct.  A person's time has no value, machine tools are so cheap that they are practically free, utilities have no cost, shipping is free, taxes are nil, etc., etc., etc.  Hey, running a business is so cheap that all products should be given away.  I can't argue with that at all.<br />
<br />
Ok.  I am done.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>the_digital_dentist</strong><br />
The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same.  That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly.  Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better.  They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works.  They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.<br />
<br />
There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great.  After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever.  Heatsink fins on a teflon tube?  Wood parts right next to a heater that runs &gt;200C?  Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing.  The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing.  You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.<br />
<br />
If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer.  If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed.  The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).<br />
<br />
If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs.  If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers.  You can't play in that space.  You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer.  Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises.  Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...</div></blockquote>]]></description>
            <dc:creator>reifsnyderb</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:03:43 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623912#msg-623912</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623912#msg-623912</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ The problem here is that people are unable to distinguish between quality goods and stuff that isn't when it looks the same.  That's OK for handbags or scarves or something that doesn't have to function precisely, but in a 3D printer, ALL the parts have to work properly.  Most people have crap printers and don't actually have any experience with one that works well, so for them the $10 cloned hot-end is a good one because it's cheap and they don't know any better.  They are swimming in a cesspool of cheap stuff that barely works.  They're used to unclogging the hot-end after every print and they think it's normal just like they thought it was normal to reboot Windows 98 (and XP) every hour or so to keep it working.<br />
<br />
There's no guarantee that a "genuine original" product is "all that and a bag of chips". I bought a budaschnozzle (a design as ridiculous as its name!!) a couple years ago because people said it was great.  After I received it I realized it was one of the dumbest hot-end designs ever.  Heatsink fins on a teflon tube?  Wood parts right next to a heater that runs &gt;200C?  Clearly the designer had no idea what they were doing.  The lesson I learned was that you can't trust most reviews and you can't trust the designers to know what they are doing.  You have to educate yourself and use your own critical eye to determine what's good and what's not.<br />
<br />
If you're making hot-ends that sell for $60, you're not going to sell them to any of the vast majority of people who refuse to pay more than $300 for a printer.  If you thought you were, your business plan is flawed.  The Chinese cloners and kit makers figured out that people care about cost more than they care about whether the thing works and more than they care about the time they're going to waste trying to make chicken salad (a good 3D print) out of chicken shit (a $300 printer).<br />
<br />
If you designed a hot-end that sells for $60 and you're whining about the cheap clones stealing your business, you are charging too much and/or you are not marketing it properly and educating 3D printing enthusiasts about why your hot-end is better than the cheap knock-offs.  If you can't get your price down, quit trying to sell the part to people who buy $300 printers.  You can't play in that space.  You have to go higher end, and target the much smaller market of people/companies who spend $1000 and up for a printer.  Tell them about quality of the parts, about the better print quality, about increased reliability, and after purchase support, then make sure you deliver on all the promises.  Be forewarned, those people tend to be very critical...]]></description>
            <dc:creator>the_digital_dentist</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 11:37:38 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623901#msg-623901</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623901#msg-623901</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ I am aware of that, <br />
<br />
But i still think 70 euro for a hot end is to much, but hey the new 1730 hot end that is on kickstarter is 125 euro, that's just madness.<br />
<br />
The real problem is that market for these thing's isn't that big, but the costumer shouldn't have to pay more because of that imo.<br />
<br />
If i start a company and i don't have as much customers as i would want to, or need to, customers aren't going to pay more for my product's because of my sales not being very high, quite the opposite actually.<br />
<br />
But i do understand your point, and maybe i underestimate the costs to keep a company like e3d going. <br />
<br />
Like i said, i do support them, i have 3 e3d's, i recently bought a hardend steel nozzle from them, and now i bought one clone.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Govahnator</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 11:17:20 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623869#msg-623869</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623869#msg-623869</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Frans@France</strong><br />
<blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Govahnator</strong><br /> i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).</div></blockquote> I disagree, that money is needed to continue doing business and doing research like [<a href="http://e3d-online.com/is-carbon-killing-your-nozzle" target="_blank"  rel="nofollow">e3d-online.com</a>]</div></blockquote>
<br />
Frans@France is correct.<br />
<br />
If e3d goes under, your only options for new product designs will be to either do it yourself or forget about it.  Running a business, innovating, doing research, purchasing machinery, and maintaining machinery costs money.<br />
<br />
There are new J-head designs that were created as well.  Those designs will not even be given away due to this kind of support for the cloners.<br />
<br />
Just keep buying the clones.  China thanks you.]]></description>
            <dc:creator>reifsnyderb</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 09:56:16 -0500</pubDate>
        </item>
        <item>
            <guid>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623865#msg-623865</guid>
            <title>Re: E3D V6 clone quality ?</title>
            <link>https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,622232,623865#msg-623865</link>
            <description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="bbcode"><div><small>Quote<br /></small><strong>Govahnator</strong><br /> i think the original is way overpriced ( i have the original 1 v5 and 2 v6's as well).</div></blockquote> I disagree, that money is needed to continue doing business and doing research like [<a href="http://e3d-online.com/is-carbon-killing-your-nozzle" target="_blank"  rel="nofollow">e3d-online.com</a>]]]></description>
            <dc:creator>Frans@France</dc:creator>
            <category>General</category>
            <pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2016 09:44:19 -0500</pubDate>
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