New technique for ABS adhesion! (The following was translated from Portuguese by Google Translator) Among all experienced to date (no small feat), which I will now describe was what brought me the best result! It is coated on the table (glass surface or aluminum) with a laser printer transparency! Let the procedure: The first important point is to have the flat face, namely, the untreated part, not intended for toner printing, the transparency facing up. This face is that is in contact with the extruded material. Second, you need to paste the other side on the table surface. It is important that there are no compliance failures. The whole area of ​​transparency should be well adhered without bubbles. For this there are two methods. The simplest is to apply double-sided tape on the table and then apply transparency. The other way, I used, is spread acrylic adhesive (permanent glue Acrilex) on the table with the help of a brush, wait for the glue to dry completely and then apply transparency on the table. This glue is very resistant to high temperatures and provides a great result in terms of adhesion. Finally, it is important that the surface of the transparency that will receive the extruded material is cleaned and degreased. To clean you can use a damp cloth. And to degrease recommend a small cotton ball soaked with a little acetone or isopropyl alcohol. The result of the prints is amazing! I hope that experience and to post the results here. I will be on hand to answer any questions. :) https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,714222#msg-714222 Tue, 15 Sep 2026 22:57:14 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733304#msg-733304 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733304#msg-733304 JamesK General Tue, 27 Dec 2016 11:30:13 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733302#msg-733302 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733302#msg-733302
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JamesK
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JamesK
I'm pretty sure that last time I tried to order from them they declined to ship to Canada, but it sure looks like they can do it.

Ah, I remembered right:

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Due to the cost and complexity of shipping our products to Canada, we are only able to accept orders from businesses and schools. We’ve canceled your order.

Why they can't make that clear on their website is beyond me.

I'm about to order up a bunch of stuff from McMaster so maybe I'll order up a piece of the adhesive backed polyester.. If you PM me with your address, I'll send you a chunk. What's the size of your bed?]]> LoboCNC General Tue, 27 Dec 2016 11:23:56 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733270#msg-733270 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733270#msg-733270
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JamesK
I'm pretty sure that last time I tried to order from them they declined to ship to Canada, but it sure looks like they can do it.

Ah, I remembered right:

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Due to the cost and complexity of shipping our products to Canada, we are only able to accept orders from businesses and schools. We’ve canceled your order.

Why they can't make that clear on their website is beyond me.]]> JamesK General Tue, 27 Dec 2016 09:37:20 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733085#msg-733085 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,733085#msg-733085 Removing epoxy with a hot air gun is not a good idea. The epoxy begins to soften above 250ºC, and at this temperature only gives to scrape it with metal utensil, which damages the aluminum. Acetone is undoubtedly the best solution for this.]]> ECJ General Mon, 26 Dec 2016 08:37:11 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732785#msg-732785 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732785#msg-732785
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LoboCNC

You can also use a heat gun to soften epoxy and then scrape it off.

Yes, and it might even be a good idea to simply pull the film with the bed well heated. I'll do those tests soon.]]> ECJ General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 21:13:34 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732784#msg-732784 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732784#msg-732784
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ECJ
I was tested to remove epoxy from aluminum using acetone. I poured some acetone and covered with pvc film to not evaporate and let it act for 5 minutes. Acetone obviously does not dilute the epoxy, but it soften and lose grip ability! Then it is possible to scrape easily with a plastic spatula or even with the nails. :P

You can also use a heat gun to soften epoxy and then scrape it off.]]> LoboCNC General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 20:55:55 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732781#msg-732781 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732781#msg-732781
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JamesK
That's good to know - thanks for testing!

Before considering using on my aluminum bed, I am now gluing the film onto a small aluminum plate that I have here. I'll leave it to cure for 24 hours and try to remove. With a little luck, when pulling hard, the adhesion to the film may be greater and all the epoxy will come out along with it.]]> ECJ General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 20:30:14 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732776#msg-732776 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732776#msg-732776 JamesK General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:16:58 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732775#msg-732775 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732775#msg-732775 ECJ General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:15:17 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732774#msg-732774 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732774#msg-732774 JamesK General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 19:13:11 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732772#msg-732772 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732772#msg-732772
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JamesK
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LoboCNC
That's why I was wondering if it might be worth testing the McMaster PET/polyester adhesive backed film. If it works, the adhesive backing would be way more convenient than glue, and also, McMaster is pretty consistent with their sourcing.

For sure it's worth trying. A lot will depend on the temperature characteristics of the adhesive. I see some of the 3M transfer tapes are rated to 200C or so. I'm currently using 3M indoor carpet tape (it was available at home depot and cheap), but the glue visibly melts by around 90C, so it's not going to be any good at ABS temperatures. I think it was LeadingLights that suggested lamination pouches - that sounds like it's worth a go too, but once again, I don't know what temperature the glue they use softens at. I have a sinking feeling that I'll end up trying epoxy in the end!

Oh, and TPU is another resounding success on the transparency foil - almost too much adhesion at the moment, and that beautiful glossy surface with no clean up :)

The adhesive on the McMaster polyester film is rated for 275deg F (135 C), so that should be good for all but the highest temp filaments.]]> LoboCNC General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:48:18 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732765#msg-732765 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732765#msg-732765
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LoboCNC
That's why I was wondering if it might be worth testing the McMaster PET/polyester adhesive backed film. If it works, the adhesive backing would be way more convenient than glue, and also, McMaster is pretty consistent with their sourcing.

For sure it's worth trying. A lot will depend on the temperature characteristics of the adhesive. I see some of the 3M transfer tapes are rated to 200C or so. I'm currently using 3M indoor carpet tape (it was available at home depot and cheap), but the glue visibly melts by around 90C, so it's not going to be any good at ABS temperatures. I think it was LeadingLights that suggested lamination pouches - that sounds like it's worth a go too, but once again, I don't know what temperature the glue they use softens at. I have a sinking feeling that I'll end up trying epoxy in the end!

Oh, and TPU is another resounding success on the transparency foil - almost too much adhesion at the moment, and that beautiful glossy surface with no clean up :)]]> JamesK General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:09:40 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732685#msg-732685 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732685#msg-732685
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JamesK
For example, polyester is a family of chemicals that includes PET, and PET itself seems to come in multiple forms. I guess all you can do is test a particular product and hope that the manufacturer doesn't change the content.

That's why I was wondering if it might be worth testing the McMaster PET/polyester adhesive backed film. If it works, the adhesive backing would be way more convenient than glue, and also, McMaster is pretty consistent with their sourcing.]]> LoboCNC General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 11:57:31 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732669#msg-732669 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732669#msg-732669 JamesK General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 10:43:03 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732623#msg-732623 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732623#msg-732623
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JamesK
Did a few more tests today. ABS adhered well enough to pull the transparency off the glass again, so on to another glue...
Petg seems to work really well on this surface, and since it doesn't shrink much it's less inclined to rip the sheet off the glass. On the other hand, I couldn't get enough adhesion with nylon to stop it from curling away from the bed. I suspect nylon will need an extra treatment on top of the transparency which is a shame.

When the film is fixed with epoxy, the ABS simply releases by itself when cooling because the film does not accompany its retraction movement.]]> ECJ General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 06:26:02 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732613#msg-732613 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732613#msg-732613
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LoboCNC

Do you know what type of polyester is in the transparency film you are using? 3M transparencies claim to be made of PET. Maybe a different formulation?

All the transparencies I researched and tested so far are made of polyester. The polyester itself offers good adhesion and these are formulated to withstand the temperature. PET undoubtedly withstands higher temperatures than polyester, and perhaps these 3M PET transparencies only have a surface coating so that the toner can stick to it and if it does, it will last very little. But just do a test.]]> ECJ General Fri, 23 Dec 2016 05:45:17 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732562#msg-732562 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732562#msg-732562
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ECJ
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LoboCNC
Has anyone tried adhesive-backed polyester film from McMaster (https://www.mcmaster.com/#8689K42)?

In the description says it's PET. I already tested PET film and the result is not good. The adhesion of ABS to PET is worse than that of glass.

Do you know what type of polyester is in the transparency film you are using? 3M transparencies claim to be made of PET. Maybe a different formulation?]]> LoboCNC General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 22:45:01 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732555#msg-732555 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732555#msg-732555
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LoboCNC
Has anyone tried adhesive-backed polyester film from McMaster (https://www.mcmaster.com/#8689K42)?

In the description says it's PET. I already tested PET film and the result is not good. The adhesion of ABS to PET is worse than that of glass.]]> ECJ General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 20:32:45 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732552#msg-732552 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732552#msg-732552 https://www.mcmaster.com/#8689K42)?]]> LoboCNC General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 20:23:06 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732530#msg-732530 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732530#msg-732530 Petg seems to work really well on this surface, and since it doesn't shrink much it's less inclined to rip the sheet off the glass. On the other hand, I couldn't get enough adhesion with nylon to stop it from curling away from the bed. I suspect nylon will need an extra treatment on top of the transparency which is a shame.]]> JamesK General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 18:02:28 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732449#msg-732449 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732449#msg-732449
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nebbian
Have you considered 3M 468MP tape?

It works well to stick PEI to aluminium. It really sticks well. You can remove it, although it takes a scraper, half an hour, and lots of acetone.

This adhesive is the base of acrylic glue. I've tested it and the result is well below epoxy. As I said, it makes it difficult to remove the parts, and the movement of removing the parts does not last long.]]> ECJ General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 11:03:27 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732447#msg-732447 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732447#msg-732447
Other types of glue do not give good results because the adhesion of the film must be rigid and firm. Otherwise the adhesion will not last long and you will have difficulty removing the printed part. That's what happened to me in relation to the acrylic glue, which lasted only 2 months and I had to replace the film, still good. The flexibility of the acrylic glue causes the film to follow the movement and the retraction of the parts, which makes it difficult to remove them. This is not the case with epoxy resin.

I do not see a glue option that can be as rigid, firm and temperature resistant as epoxy and is easier to remove. But epoxy can be removed with acetone. Maybe pour acetone over the residue of glue, put a plastic film on top and leave it for a few minutes to soften the epoxy, and thus be able to remove without scratching the aluminum. Soon I will test with piece of aluminum.]]> ECJ General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:58:33 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732445#msg-732445 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732445#msg-732445
It works well to stick PEI to aluminium. It really sticks well. You can remove it, although it takes a scraper, half an hour, and lots of acetone.]]> nebbian General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:54:59 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732422#msg-732422 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732422#msg-732422 JamesK General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 09:43:46 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732382#msg-732382 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732382#msg-732382
You will need to do this over glass, as if applying the epoxy directly on the aluminum, you could not remove without damaging your bed!

Apply the epoxy over the glass and over the film. Attach the parts and remove all bubbles and excess epoxy with the help of a plastic spatula to avoid damaging the surface of the film. Instead, tape the edges of the bed so that excess epoxy does not fall into your printer.

The glue or resin should be slowly curing, which can then be accelerated by keeping the bed heated at 70 ° C for about 1 hour.

I fixed my film with resin and currently use ABS with 120ºC in the first layer. For slightly larger pieces, I also apply ABS paste (ABS dissolved in 100% pure acetone or methyl methacrylate).

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=epoxy+resin&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR9.TRC2.A0.H0.Xepoxy+glue.TRS0&_nkw=epoxy+glue&_sacat=0]]> ECJ General Thu, 22 Dec 2016 06:30:50 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732200#msg-732200 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,732200#msg-732200
[attachment 87675 IMG_9281.jpg]

[attachment 87676 IMG_9280.jpg]

I had to increase bed and first layer temperatures a little over what I normally use, 70 bed/230 hotend compared to 65/210, but adhesion seemed to kick in pretty well at that point. When I tried with abs I didn't get any adhesion at 70 bed, and the glue let go at 90, so I've prepped a second sheet with the next glue. The problem seems to be that many glues won't set once they are sealed between the glass and the transparency sheet.]]> JamesK General Wed, 21 Dec 2016 12:09:23 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,726670#msg-726670 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,726670#msg-726670 wfpaez General Mon, 28 Nov 2016 18:31:34 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,726591#msg-726591 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,726591#msg-726591
Something I just hit on, quite by accident: I was smearing purple glue on my glass build plate, but was very unhappy with the slop. In washing it off, I realized that it was becoming slightly foamy. I completely washed it off and re-applied, then added a little bit of water and used a squeegee to push the resulting purple juice across the glass a couple of times. The result was a very thin, very fine sticky layer of glue. I'm sending an ABS print to it now and it adhered quite well. This is a very flat part of a case (occupies >70% of the bed), so it will be interesting to see what the result will be.]]> wfpaez General Mon, 28 Nov 2016 13:52:11 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,725484#msg-725484 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,725484#msg-725484
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ECJ
It did not arrive yet? Or were the tests a failure? (:P)

Hasn't arrived yet. Theoretically due in the next few days, but the seller has left ebay so there's the possibility that it's not actually coming and I'll have to go through the refund process once it's officially late :( I've had a bit of a run of bad luck with ebay and alliexpress recently. So far I've had everything refunded that needed to be, but the delay of several weeks between ordering and being in a position to re-order is getting a bit stale. The down-side to cheap prices.]]> JamesK General Thu, 24 Nov 2016 07:24:39 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,725473#msg-725473 Re: New technique for ABS adhesion! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,714222,725473#msg-725473
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JamesK
OK, I have a fair collection of filaments, I'll let you know how I get on once the transparencies arrive.


It did not arrive yet? Or were the tests a failure? (:P)]]> ECJ General Thu, 24 Nov 2016 06:29:26 -0500