Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... So, someone asked me to do a review/opinion of the [url=https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-printer-extruder-titan-Extruder-for-desktop-FDM-3D-printer-reprap-MK8-J-head-bowden-free/32765576131.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.28.GIM5yu&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10130_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10056_10055_10054_302_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_5000000_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10126_10124-10052_10113,searchweb201603_4,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_2,single_sort_0_default&btsid=070d8c79-3f0b-4f08-899b-dad1ad0dca49&algo_expid=6494f195-9995-4420-bce8-ce940b57db96-3&algo_pvid=6494f195-9995-4420-bce8-ce940b57db96]Trianglelab[/url] titan extruder. So I got two of these units last week, also a y-splitter which I haven't tried yet. It comes in a plastic tub, with a card referring you to the genuine e3d on-line documentation. Mine was supplied with a 40mm nema 17 1.8 deg stepper motor with 42BYGH40 1.7A on the side. And a heatsink for the motor, although with a 40mm motor I wouldnt expect it to overheat (they are useful with a 20mm motor). You also get a printed bracket one of which was warped too badly to use the other looks like it will work (the holes line up). On the front of the extruder it says "Designed by E3D". Assembly was the same as the genuine titan, everything fits together. The supplied cap head hex bolts are not the same quality as the genuine e3d titan, but they do up and I didn't strip the heads using the supplied allen key/hex wrench. The front panel fits marginally less convincingly than the original but it does fit. The bowden adaptor and the guide tube don't quite line up when both are pushed fully into the unit (they do with the genuine version), so when you come to insert your bowden tube it won't go in. To get it to go in, you have to pull the guide tube out by about 1.5mm. There is room to do this, it doesn't get pushed back in when you do up the front panel so its not too annoying but took a few minutes fiddling to figure out. The drive gear has less sharp teeth than the the genuine titan. So far this hasn't proven to be a problem feeding filament (I have my idler wheel set to 50% tension). There is even an argument that the less sharp teeth might clog less easily, but I haven't been using it for long enough to know. As for what it can extrude; taking brittle PLA as a test it will extrude up to 30mm/s at 220 deg C, before the motor started to click (I am using my 20mm pancake stepper not the supplied stepper) which is more than enough for anything I need it to do. The bowden coupler seems to be holding up. The drive gear (hobbed bolt) is 7.35mm compared to 8mm for the genuine e3d, so you need 10% higher steps/mm to get correct extrusion. I have not counted the teeth but I believe the gearing from motor to the hobbed bolt is 3:1 as in the original. Objects printed have no extruder related artefacts or issues. Cost at time of writing without stepper motor its £25 delivered to UK for the clone, instead of £60 delivered for the genuine titan. The genuine unit has overall better build quality and higher quality parts. Plus the genuine unit arrives in 3 days not 28. I strongly suspect longevity and reliability will be the issue with the clone, although it goes together and functions in the short term exactly the same as the genuine unit, and its a fairly close copy. In conclusion If Trianglelab is licensing the design from E3D I'd recommend their unit without reservation, its around 60% less expensive and if it lasts at least 40% of the lifespan of the genuine e3d unit then it will be of equal value for money, but I suspect they are not, and they do splash the E3D name over the unit and supplied documents. I often conclude that a cloned hotend is okay, if you're on a tight budget or when starting out 3d printing (I am talking about whether the product works not the ethics of cloning products - I'll leave that to the discussion) if you are willing to accept you need to do some modification to make it work, and it will jam more than a genuine one. In comparison the extruder seems to be a better clone (its not as cheap as a cloned hotend relative to the original, it is clearly much more difficult to copy, it has more parts and they are more varied in materials) and it works without modification. If it has good longevity then its hard not to conclude that this is case where the clone is a viable alternative to the genuine product in terms of function and value. Full disclosure - I have no ties to E3D or Trianglelab and I did not receive either product for free, this is entirely my own independent opinion. [attachment 91872 IMG_20170312_065554.jpg] [attachment 91873 IMG_20170307_231538.jpg] [attachment 91874 IMG_20170312_073901.jpg] [attachment 91875 IMG_20170312_075524.jpg] I was using these cubes to adjust the extrusion rate so they do seem to "swell" as the z increases. Edit I also found [url=https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32796213229.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32796213229&productSubject=Titan-Thumb-Wheel-for-3D-printer-titan-Extruder-for-desktop-FDM-3D-printer-reprap-MK8-J&spm=2114.01010208.3.262.wL9Bse&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10130_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10056_10055_10054_302_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106_10084_10083_10119_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10078_10079_10073_10070_10122_10123_10120_10126_6000000_10124-10120,searchweb201603_9,afswitch_1_afChannel,ppcSwitch_7,single_sort_0_default&btsid=86a3d1d3-0764-4ce9-ad63-4f9a2ba2cf2c&algo_expid=d58bff9b-e8a3-4774-8ef2-b124053ef8c5-30&algo_pvid=d58bff9b-e8a3-4774-8ef2-b124053ef8c5#autostay]these[/url] thumb wheels for the idler adjuster instead of using an Allen key, not a bad idea that! https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,755161#msg-755161 Wed, 12 Aug 2026 16:37:57 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,833245#msg-833245 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,833245#msg-833245
I used a 4mm end mill to plunge mill an 8mm deep hole on the output side, concentric with the existing ~2.5mm output hole.

I faced and turned a brass rod down to 4mm diameter, 18mm long. I center-drilled it first to 2mm and then to 2.5mm to match the existing hole. I parted it off 16mm long, then held it gingerly to the side of the grinding wheel to make a profile like DD's. I did test fits as I ground until it just barely fit.

I cleaned out the ground end first by running the 2.5mm drill bit through by hand from the flat end, then by using a sharp knife to clean up the inside shaped edge.

So far, it doesn't look like I'll need any adhesive. The fit is smooth without meaningful wobble, and so far it's easy to load filament and filament runs smooth through it. I haven't yet made a new mount to attach it to a printer, so this is all dry runs. Also, the MR58 bearing for the axle arm doesn't quite fit over the shaft of the random motor I grabbed for my first test; I'll either switch motors or polish the shaft to make it fit. So my test was with the bearing not mounted. This shouldn't affect overall fit, just wear, and I won't run it without the bearing.]]> mcdanlj General Sun, 09 Sep 2018 16:08:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832963#msg-832963 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832963#msg-832963
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mcdanlj
It's the one I asked DD about on August 12 earlier in this thread.

If I wait to see if there is a problem before milling out for a second bearing on the front, I'll lose the ability to use a center finder to index the mill to the hole, and if I end up with bearings that don't align I'll really mess them up. On the other hand, the lever arm might be sufficiently constrained that there's no need for a second bearing. On the other other hand, I already bought a 10-pack of MR58 bearings, so maybe I really should use at least one of them. On the other other other hand, I have now replacements if any of the several included MR58 bearings fail, even if I don't modify the arm.

How many hands do you have ????? :)

Note, for me, this kind of "extruder" deserves the sledge hammer treatment using both hands !]]> MKSA General Thu, 06 Sep 2018 05:00:39 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832922#msg-832922 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832922#msg-832922 the one I asked DD about on August 12 earlier in this thread.

If I wait to see if there is a problem before milling out for a second bearing on the front, I'll lose the ability to use a center finder to index the mill to the hole, and if I end up with bearings that don't align I'll really mess them up. On the other hand, the lever arm might be sufficiently constrained that there's no need for a second bearing. On the other other hand, I already bought a 10-pack of MR58 bearings, so maybe I really should use at least one of them. On the other other other hand, I have now replacements if any of the several included MR58 bearings fail, even if I don't modify the arm.]]> mcdanlj General Wed, 05 Sep 2018 17:00:52 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832918#msg-832918 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832918#msg-832918
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McDan
It was already milled out on the back for an included MR58 bearing around the motor shaft. @the_digital_dentist and @jinx — did yours come with bearings to go around the motor shaft?
no thats a new addition, you got a link to that one please.]]> jinx General Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:31:01 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832916#msg-832916 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832916#msg-832916
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mcdanlj
Perhaps ... using an MR58 bearing would work well.

So, mine arrived today. It was already milled out on the back for an included MR58 bearing around the motor shaft. @the_digital_dentist and @jinx — did yours come with bearings to go around the motor shaft?

[attachment 106894 arm-with-bearing.JPG]

My impression is that the motor shaft bearing being on the back side of the arm and the filament bearing being on the front side of the arm could cause the kind of problem you saw. I'm inclined to mill out the front side of the arm for another bearing, so the arm is supported front and back.

The hobbed portion of the axle is still offset (looks like it was manufactured backwards from the original, relative to the face of the POM gear) and it still doesn't properly constrain the filament coming out of the hobbed axle.]]> mcdanlj General Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:10:35 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832128#msg-832128 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,832128#msg-832128
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2) the hole in the pinch roller lever that fits over the motor shaft was worn and out of round. There was a considerable amount of black dust (aluminum?) inside the body of the extruder.
yeap and the dust is even nastier, not something I want to be sat near!. took a panther to reveal the problem.



you know when its happening with the odd click and faint sound of grinding!
]]> jinx General Mon, 27 Aug 2018 03:46:23 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831560#msg-831560 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831560#msg-831560
Even better would be milling with an 8mm end mill just deep enough to seat the bearing in the middle of the hole. So if the arm is 8mm thick, milling with an 8mm end mill 2.5mm+(8mm-2.5mm)/2 = 5.25mm deep would leave a 2.75mm flange to seat the bearing against and would seat the bearing right in the middle of the arm thickness (2.75mm flange + 2.5mm bearing thickness + 2.75mm = 8mm). With a drill, I suppose you could drill a little bit at a time and get close enough, test-fitting and measuring until you are satisfied with the fit.]]> mcdanlj General Sun, 19 Aug 2018 14:22:35 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831534#msg-831534 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831534#msg-831534
Have you considered drilling out the hole a little and pressing in a brass or copper bushing to ride on the motor shaft instead of the aluminium?]]> Trakyan General Sun, 19 Aug 2018 09:11:26 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831486#msg-831486 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831486#msg-831486 Note their ball bearings are not that great either. A good source of cheap small quality bearings, old hard drive.]]> MKSA General Sat, 18 Aug 2018 11:14:32 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831399#msg-831399 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831399#msg-831399 the_digital_dentist General Fri, 17 Aug 2018 00:03:05 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831397#msg-831397 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831397#msg-831397
EDIT: I don't know, maybe they are anodized, a bit hard to tell with a black surface in a photo. If they are anodized, isn't aluminium oxide quite tough? I can imagine it getting scratched/gouged maybe but eroded/abraded seems less likely.]]> Trakyan General Thu, 16 Aug 2018 21:47:32 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831345#msg-831345 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831345#msg-831345
I had it apart last night so that I could mount it on a new carriage for my printer. I discovered a couple things.

1) the pinch roller bearing had one of its seals come out and jammed up the bearing so it was rotating.

2) the hole in the pinch roller lever that fits over the motor shaft was worn and out of round. There was a considerable amount of black dust (aluminum?) inside the body of the extruder.

This is looking less like a good alternative to an E3D Titan...

OTOH, the XCR3D hot-end still looks pretty good.]]> the_digital_dentist General Thu, 16 Aug 2018 07:18:23 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831037#msg-831037 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831037#msg-831037 the_digital_dentist General Sun, 12 Aug 2018 16:29:29 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831034#msg-831034 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,831034#msg-831034
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the_digital_dentist
I ordered an aluminum Titan from a Chinese supplier and immediately set about modifying it to work better before I ever tried printing with it.

Was [www.aliexpress.com] the kind you ordered? AFAICT trianglelab doesn't have an all-metal titan clone, so it's not the OP link.]]> mcdanlj General Sun, 12 Aug 2018 15:53:09 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,828109#msg-828109 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,828109#msg-828109 the_digital_dentist General Sun, 08 Jul 2018 21:55:16 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,828081#msg-828081 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,828081#msg-828081 [www.thingiverse.com]]]> Scienteer General Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:03:15 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827893#msg-827893 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827893#msg-827893
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MKSA
Grease and similar non dry lubricant will collect dirt, grit, may end up on the hobb ... and are better avoided. The design must use either closed ball bearing, polymer bushings ....

You are absolutely right, this is a less than optimal solution. But if I had to solve it myself, I would have to machine space for ball bearings in the arm. This is the long-term solution, but will require me to get the arm milled at the local machine workshop.]]> flydeprutten General Fri, 06 Jul 2018 04:12:00 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827890#msg-827890 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827890#msg-827890 MKSA General Fri, 06 Jul 2018 03:10:27 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827889#msg-827889 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827889#msg-827889
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the_digital_dentist
I wouldn't use any lube except graphite or silicone grease. Petroleum based grease may attack the plastic.

E3D was having problems with the grease getting out of their bearings and onto the polycarbonate front cover of the Titan extruder and causing it to crack.

But that's the beauty of using an extruder made of aluminum. :)

The only plastic is the big gear, and that is made of POM plastic. POM / acetal will not react with hydrocarbons in the same way as PC. However, it should be mentioned that I have used silicone based lubricant. ;)]]> flydeprutten General Fri, 06 Jul 2018 02:53:39 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827879#msg-827879 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827879#msg-827879
E3D was having problems with the grease getting out of their bearings and onto the polycarbonate front cover of the Titan extruder and causing it to crack.]]> the_digital_dentist General Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:41:08 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827874#msg-827874 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827874#msg-827874
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the_digital_dentist
If the motor shaft has a flat on the surface, the edges are probably sharp, and it's those edges that are chewing up the hole in the pinch roller lever. Use a file or sandpaper to reduce the sharpness.

That's a good idea. I've done that. I've also given it a little grease, and this evening switched to a new and much better gear. When I'm sitting with the old gear in my hand, I don't think it looks like POM plastic at all. The new gear and my v-wheels seem completely different to touch. I think the gear that comes with the alu extruder is made of a cheaper plastic type.]]> flydeprutten General Thu, 05 Jul 2018 15:06:33 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827848#msg-827848 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827848#msg-827848
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the_digital_dentist
If the motor shaft has a flat on the surface, the edges are probably sharp, and it's those edges that are chewing up the hole in the pinch roller lever. Use a file or sandpaper to reduce the sharpness.

Quite frankly this motor shaft with a flat turning in the idler lever without a ball bearing is a non sense. A round shaft would be OK if the lever is in some kind of Nylon, Delrin ...

Sometimes I wonder if mechanical engineering is not going backwards, so many basic mistakes that wouldn't be made 30 years ago.
Oh yes, but now a simple computer rendering is seen as proof enough of a "design".]]> MKSA General Thu, 05 Jul 2018 07:48:47 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827846#msg-827846 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827846#msg-827846 the_digital_dentist General Thu, 05 Jul 2018 07:22:59 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827844#msg-827844 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827844#msg-827844
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flydeprutten
I have now lubricated it, but I'm considering drilling the hole bigger and inserting a nylon or ptfe tube between the shaft and the hole.

I be more tempted to find a stepper with a round shaft rather than D type. had the same dust coming off, all seems fine though with a little grease on that section of the shaft.]]> jinx General Thu, 05 Jul 2018 07:21:43 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827836#msg-827836 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827836#msg-827836
The biggest problem I experienced was that it squeaked incredibly much. At first I thought it was the plastic gear that rubbed up agenst something, but when I saw that black dust spilled out of it, I realized it was when the shaft of the engine rubbed against the arm of the extruder. I could see that the black surface inside the hole of the arm was worn away, and it was from there that the black dust came from.

I have now lubricated it, but I'm considering drilling the hole bigger and inserting a nylon or ptfe tube between the shaft and the hole.]]> flydeprutten General Thu, 05 Jul 2018 04:58:42 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827316#msg-827316 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,827316#msg-827316
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CHBRIGHT83
can you see if the original titan top fits? what i saw was that my cloned plastic titan had everything offest. this included the hobbed gear as you described, the filiment hole didnt line up with the hobbed gear very well. the hobbed gear was offset and the filiment wouldnt go straight from the hobbed gear to the hole feeder hole. sounds exactly like what you described here.

when i tried to fit an aero top it didnt line up. i have an aluminum set on order and hope my aero top fits.......

Note: received aluminum Titan, and aero top fit. For those of us wanting an all.metal (or darn close) rig this looks like it will work (unless there make alternate versions)]]> CHBRIGHT83 General Sat, 30 Jun 2018 05:48:11 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826222#msg-826222 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826222#msg-826222 the_digital_dentist General Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:33:09 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826220#msg-826220 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826220#msg-826220
when i tried to fit an aero top it didnt line up. i have an aluminum set on order and hope my aero top fits.......]]> CHBRIGHT83 General Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:22:17 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826087#msg-826087 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826087#msg-826087 It seems to work just fine.

I checked the fit and found that the E3D Titan drive gear fits perfectly, and the filament gripper teeth line up with the filament path, which means you could buy an aluminum Titan and use the E3D drive gear for it. It also means that one of the big problems with buying Chinese stuff, specifically, the uncertain availability of spare parts, is no concern.

I also checked to see if the E3D Titan will fit on the aluminum mount and it does.

Blog post with photos and details here.]]> the_digital_dentist General Tue, 19 Jun 2018 00:07:06 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826041#msg-826041 Re: Cloned titan extruder review/opinion... https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,755161,826041#msg-826041
The gear is plastic, and replacement parts are available. I will check to see if the original Titan drive gear fits this extruder.

One other problem with this design, or maybe with the part fabrication, is that the filament doesn't ride against the bottom of the concavity in the drive gear teeth, it's a little bit off to one side. That means the filament is going to try to move toward the bottom of the concavity due to the pressure from the pinch roller, which will be fighting against the stiffness of the filament that's trying to push it back up the side. I suspect that will lead to inconsistent extrusion because the diameter of the drive gear increases as the filament moves up the side of the concavity.

Since I added the aluminum tube, feeding filament into the extruder is easier- you don't have to hunt for the opening in the feed tube. The tube may prevent the filament from trying to crawl up the side of the drive gear concavity.]]> the_digital_dentist General Mon, 18 Jun 2018 09:30:10 -0400