PCB Effector with embedded sensor I like this idea, a lot! Effector made out of a PCB, but rather than just using the board material, they have added logic to it. And embedded a sensor in it, to do bed calibration, using the nozzle as a sensing tip. It uses a new heat sink design my E3D and in my opinion it looks pretty darn good. Have a gander at the photos and specs. https://duet3d.com/wiki/Smart_effector_and_carriage_adapters_for_delta_printer Lykle https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,781558#msg-781558 Wed, 07 Oct 2026 08:44:38 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782796#msg-782796 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782796#msg-782796
Whether it will work well using the default sensitivity level on a printer not equipped with a Duet WiFi or Duet Ethernet will depend on the level of vibration during a Z probing moves. The drivers on the Duets support microstepping up to x256, so it is possible to get very smooth movement and low vibration. Printers that use lower microstepping may have sufficient vibration during Z probing moves to trigger the sensor at its default sensitivity.

If you need to change the sensitivity, it would be possible to send the programming command from an Arduino. I may get round to writing an Arduino sketch to do this when I am less busy.

The firmware must support inserting a delay between a travel move and the start of a Z probing move. I understand that there are builds of all the major firmwares now with this support (thanks to DjDemonD for this!).]]> dc42 General Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:05:10 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782720#msg-782720 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782720#msg-782720 www.duet3d.com] and if the answer is not already there ask there,]]> DjDemonD General Thu, 10 Aug 2017 07:31:01 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782714#msg-782714 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782714#msg-782714 do you know if vat is already inclued for all european customers?
i think yes..but i am not sure 100%]]> titeuf007 General Thu, 10 Aug 2017 06:33:53 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782706#msg-782706 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782706#msg-782706 Whilst I can't say for sure, compatibility is likely to be no problem. Although the PCB effector works differently to our sensor solution they have developed in parallel over the last year and I would be highly surprised if the PCB effector does not output an endstop style signal. I.e. (preferably) Normally Closed 3.3v (would still work on Marlin/ramps) or 5v output which goes to 0 on triggered.

See here [duet3d.com]

It takes either 3.3v or 5v depending on your system to power the nozzle contact sensor, which means it modulates 3.3v or 5v to show triggering. It appears to be programmable from Duet electronics to adjust the sensitivity, but its default setting will most likely be functional when working from other controllers. This makes sense as I'm sure DC and the T3P3 team would like to see the PCB effector as part of their ecosystem (which is great BTW I have two duet controlled printers now and am very pleased with them), but would also like to sell these to everyone else too.]]> DjDemonD General Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:57:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782705#msg-782705 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782705#msg-782705 but i am scared about one thing:compatibility with marlin and smoothie board
when they say 45 without vat does it outside eu union?
so for european people it s 45+shipping cost or we need to pay extra cost]]> titeuf007 General Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:38:21 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782684#msg-782684 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782684#msg-782684 But even if we could find it in mild steel, we can't change the effector so easily with the mesh enveloping the whole mag-ball system.]]> o_lampe General Thu, 10 Aug 2017 03:18:14 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782514#msg-782514 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782514#msg-782514
Quote
o_lampe
......................... The cup pulls on the ball from all different angles ( upto +/-45° )
As soon as the forces got out off balance, the ball wanders in one direction.
......................

Almost exactly my point - my earlier analogy was not quite right, the strong army is not pointing their weapons in the wrong direction, they have left the field of battle and gone elsewhere.

In another forum they are talking about using a closed field [groups.google.com] (most recent posts) I did some preliminary trials on using a closed field some time ago but found that if the outer pole came close to the ball then the ball would rather hang out on the outer pole. If the outer pole stopped short then it short circuited the magnetic field and made everything less powerfull - there may be things between these extremes that work but probably too little to gain.

Mike]]> leadinglights General Wed, 09 Aug 2017 04:22:14 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782503#msg-782503 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782503#msg-782503 Mutley3D General Wed, 09 Aug 2017 03:28:05 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782494#msg-782494 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782494#msg-782494 As soon as the forces got out off balance, the ball wanders in one direction.

With a cylindric magnet the force would come from 0° only. Right?]]> o_lampe General Wed, 09 Aug 2017 02:26:15 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782488#msg-782488 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782488#msg-782488
Quote
DjDemonD
I've thought about that the Haydn system does leave a tiny amount of delrin on the cup in the arm between the steel ball and magnet. But I'm not sure I'd want to fill it with anything abrasive. Would oil and graphite powder be magnetic? How about graphene? I haven't come up with a use for the new wonder -
substance in 3d printing yet.

I think graphite and graphene are based on carbon? So they are conductive but not magnetic.]]> o_lampe General Wed, 09 Aug 2017 02:07:00 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782373#msg-782373 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782373#msg-782373
Quote
chris33
you get rid of movement with traxxas ball ends with springs

A problem with using springs is that they bend the arms a little, which shortens the effective arm length. Even if all the springs have the same strength, the sideways force they exert (and hence the amount of bending) depends on the position of the arms. Hence the effective arm length depends on arm position. There is a thread in the forum at duet3d.com where a user was getting apparent high spots between the towers, and changing to weaker springs partly solved the problem.

Maybe the problem can be reduced enough to be to insignificant by using sufficiently thick and rigid arms.]]> dc42 General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 08:55:07 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782364#msg-782364 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782364#msg-782364
I have one delta with RC joints and elastic and it performs okay but its a micro sized machine, so you can get away with way more inaccuracy than in an XL sized machine.

This thread about the tolerances of the arms and balls on the Haydn system, brings up an interesting idea, that since there appear to be a subtle range of sizes of balls, it might be possible with some careful measurement of the individual balls, knowing the arm lengths as Haydn marks them when they ship, to truly create equal length arm assemblies to a very high degree of precision by choosing balls to match arms. I suspect it will have little impact on actual printing (unless you are printing micro-sized objects with 0.15mm nozzles) but in the quest for ever lower calibration deviation, it might yield some results. I'll try it, if I ever get through the queue of objects that need printing before I start tinkering with the printer.]]> DjDemonD General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 07:34:14 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782350#msg-782350 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782350#msg-782350 chris33 General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 06:04:21 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782347#msg-782347 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782347#msg-782347 I did a quick drawing of the sort of thing I tried. You can see thatthe magnet is still attached to the ball in the second set, it has just moved sideways and up

[attachment 96959 Cupmagnet.png]

The difference between the force on the first one and the second is minimal.

I then checked out the magnetic fluid idea - the fluid was a bit old but I think these photos give the idea. With a dry magnet the ball stuck with lots of force but with the magnetic fluid it was much less sticky.

[attachment 96960 MagnetFluid.png]

In both cases the magnetic field has an alternative place to go so the disconnect from first position to second is much less

As Wishbone said in an episode of Rawhide, "It ain't what we don't know that's the trouble, it's what we do know that jest ain't so"


Mike]]> leadinglights General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 05:23:00 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782343#msg-782343 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782343#msg-782343
The cup magnets I use have quite a lot of force on Haydns balls :) i'd say they easily hold at least 0.5kg individually ball to cup. It almost feels closer to 1kg. I can do a short vid of an experiment to demonstrate when i get a few moments to determine what force they do hold with. so just to clarify, I offer two options, both using Haydns ball studs.

note these are not the same cups that Chris was using.

My comments are not in response to Chris' decision to move to traxxas joints, the discussion of mag joints, and pitfalls/strengths etc started much earlier in the thread.]]> Mutley3D General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 04:55:08 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782333#msg-782333 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782333#msg-782333
Quote
Mutley3D
A good grade cup magnet of correct size to fit the ball, can have advantages over the alternative cylinder magnet (in rod end), given the size constraints in the application. Inferior parts will always result in poor performance.

That's true but I think this discussion is rather a mix of theoretical discussion on magnetic joint systems, and practical experience with the various systems currently on offer. I'm talking about my practical experience of k800 versus Haydn's.

Can you put forward a cup magnet system that's currently available which performs as well as the Haydn magnet system? Can you make one? If so you can probably sell it to delta printer owners if it works better. I think there is a reason why the most popular magnet system currently in use amongst the serious delta printer owners is the Haydn system, and its not that necessarily it is magnetically the strongest theoretical configuration, its that it works, its very well made (rods guaranteed to 0.05mm accuracy on length), its quite reasonably priced, and the delrin ends mean there is no issue of wear on the balls/cup shaped ends of the rods/or magnets that is present when cup magnets are directly fixed to the balls.

This started as Chris said above, he was going to do away with magnets and go back to mechanical joints, which I think would be a retrograde step, there will always be backlash and therefore effector tilt with mechanical joints compared to magnets. Maybe he might be better off trying a better magnet system, if I recall he was using K800 at one point like I was, they don't work as well Haydn's do.]]> DjDemonD General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 03:55:25 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782323#msg-782323 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782323#msg-782323
What is also significant, is the hyptothetical (minimal) contact area between ball and flat surface on end of cylinder magnet, where one will essentially have an increasing airgap around spherical surface of the ball joint, compared to cup magnet.

A good grade cup magnet of correct size to fit the ball, can have advantages over the alternative cylinder magnet (in rod end), given the size constraints in the application. Inferior parts will always result in poor performance.]]> Mutley3D General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 02:30:07 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782317#msg-782317 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782317#msg-782317 substance in 3d printing yet.]]> DjDemonD General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 02:02:02 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782313#msg-782313 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782313#msg-782313
BTW, the air gap Mutley3D mentioned is more than a minor strenght reduction. I wonder how such system would improve with a magnetic fluid filling the gap between steel ball and cylindric magnet? ( eg. oil& nano iron particles )]]> o_lampe General Tue, 08 Aug 2017 01:39:57 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782295#msg-782295 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782295#msg-782295
Quote
leadinglights
Quote
Mutley3D
...........................

@leadinglights, im sure im reading your comment incorrectly. Your not saying brass is magnetic are you. Am I correct interpreting that your iron cups were disrupting a magnetic field reducing its strength?

That's what makes it so odd. Iron is magnetic but a magnetic field finds it easier to pass through iron so it goes up the sides of the cup. This really needs a drawing or even better, a video but the effect is that the ball clings to one side for the first maybe 1/10 of a mm then the next 2 or so mm riding up the side - the pull gradually weakens until it disconnects completely. The iron cups were not reducing the magnets strength, just it's effectiveness - like a strong army pointing it's weapons in the wrong direction.

Mike

Damn! I will have to do some drawings.

OK I think I understand what you are saying. Iron cup was distorting/reducing magnet effective strength, not reducing actual magnet strength, more just its effectiveness by disrupting/soaking up the magnetic energy..]]> Mutley3D General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 19:19:19 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782292#msg-782292 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782292#msg-782292
Quote
Mutley3D
...........................

@leadinglights, im sure im reading your comment incorrectly. Your not saying brass is magnetic are you. Am I correct interpreting that your iron cups were disrupting a magnetic field reducing its strength?

That's what makes it so odd. Iron is magnetic but a magnetic field finds it easier to pass through iron so it goes up the sides of the cup. This really needs a drawing or even better, a video but the effect is that the ball clings to one side for the first maybe 1/10 of a mm then the next 2 or so mm riding up the side - the pull gradually weakens until it disconnects completely. The iron cups were not reducing the magnets strength, just it's effectiveness - like a strong army pointing it's weapons in the wrong direction.

Mike

Damn! I will have to do some drawings.]]> leadinglights General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 18:42:30 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782282#msg-782282 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782282#msg-782282
Agreed a larger magnet like for like material/spec etc will have capacity for greater forces, but there are a number of variables that make this not such a straight forward assumption, so magnets supplied by a particular company may indeed be weaker, due to being a lower grade. I am not disputing the principles, comments in this thread seemed generalised but stated as absolute, which is not entirely accurate.

@leadinglights, im sure im reading your comment incorrectly. Your not saying brass is magnetic are you. Am I correct interpreting that your iron cups were disrupting a magnetic field reducing its strength?]]> Mutley3D General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 17:16:25 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782254#msg-782254 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782254#msg-782254
Mike]]> leadinglights General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 14:18:46 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782252#msg-782252 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782252#msg-782252
I had a k800 system with 3mm thick cup magnets and arms with steel balls on the end. These magnets were not strong enough fo high jerk/accel, and despite buying N50 (one below the strongest neodymium magnet available) cup magnets to fit this hole in the effector, the performance at extreme arm angles was poor and they disconnected. I tried reinforcing the cup magnets by attaching disc magnets below them to create a stack of magnets increasing the gauss, but it did not work, in fact the disc magnets hanging down from the effector stopped my hotend and cooling fans from turning. I ended up printing magnet mounts to re-orientate the magnets to face the arms more, which definitely improved the performance, as a stop gap while I waited for my Haydn arms/balls to arrive from the states. Adding a bunch more printed parts here definitely made a difference to the accuracy of my printer, which was supposed to be all-metal by design.

Switching to Haydn's magnet system with much larger cylindrical magnets in the arms and I can go up to 350mm/s travel speed with high jerks/accel without disconnections, I am more concerned other parts of the printer will fail mechanically than I am the effector will disconnect from the arms in use.

But as I said above its apples and oranges, were not comparing two equal magnets of different configuration, were comparing two commonly available magnetic arm/carriage/effector systems for delta printers, the magnets on the k800 effector and on Haydn's system are far from equal.

I wrote it all up here [forums.reprap.org] if you can wade through it to find the bit about the magnets. K800 works but not a really high performance or larger machine.]]> DjDemonD General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 13:54:44 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782248#msg-782248 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782248#msg-782248
A magnet force is defined by its strength, or gauss. IF you compare a cylinder magnet, and cup magnet, of equal gauss, the magnetic pull will be the same, however you may find more strength in the cup version due to ball sitting in contact with and inside the magnetic cup. If there is an air gap, as is the case in the way cylinder magnets are used in these arms, there will actually be less force, although marginal. In case of doubt, i refer to neo magnets.

I never heard of magnetic ball studs and doubt such a thing exists, mag balls yes, mag ball studs no, because of the way magnets are created. Regarding orientation of magnetic field, in the example cited this is simply not the case, as the ball is in the centre of the magnetic field. Axially magnetised not diametrically.]]> Mutley3D General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 13:33:20 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782245#msg-782245 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782245#msg-782245
Quote
Lykle
Ah, you mean Brian's delta. Yes as he was using a different material sleeve.
My drive cable is free standing.

I agree completely with you that peace of mind is important, especially with long prints.
Using a string to keep the magnets attached is one way to feel safe.

Lykle

Earlier you said that wasn't necessary.....]]> etfrench General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 13:11:13 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782173#msg-782173 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782173#msg-782173 My drive cable is free standing.

I agree completely with you that peace of mind is important, especially with long prints.
Using a string to keep the magnets attached is one way to feel safe.

Lykle]]> Lykle General Mon, 07 Aug 2017 03:31:47 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782084#msg-782084 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782084#msg-782084 chris33 General Sun, 06 Aug 2017 13:18:26 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782076#msg-782076 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782076#msg-782076 If the magnet is the ball, the force depends on the magnetic field orientation. That can vary how much attraction there is with the arm moving in different positions.

Those joints that are the worst, with the cup magnets on the effector.
There the attraction force is always vertical, while the arm force is always at an angle and sometimes a very acute angle. Bound to release at the wrong moment.

I agree DJ, the Haydn magnet method is the best magnetic system in my opinion. It optimises the strength and always attracts in the correct direction.

Lykle]]> Lykle General Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:46:10 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782071#msg-782071 Re: PCB Effector with embedded sensor https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?1,781558,782071#msg-782071 DjDemonD General Sun, 06 Aug 2017 12:03:15 -0400