Alternatives to the toothed belt I'm building a lasercut BitsFromBytes reprap. The toothed belts were expensive and hard to find, so I decided to try ball-chain instead. However, it looks like I'd need drive gears specially designed for ball chain, the ball chain slips too easily on the default ones designed for toothed belts. I tried wrapping the ball chain one or more times around the drive wheel, this helped to some extent, but the y axis is still slipping. I tried with 1.3 mm nylon thread, but it seems to have too much play. I've eyed steel wires in the hardware store earlier, but they didn't have any thin enough, and the ones they had didn't seem that flexible. However, what about threaded electric cable? If it consists of many threads, it shouldn't suffer that much from metal fatigue, and withstand repeated bending. It's metal, so it shouldn't stretch very much. It's covered with plastic or rubber, so it has a nice grip on the drive wheels, especially if wrapped one extra time around it. And you could even use soldering (and optionally cable wrap) to create a near seamless joint for the z-axis cable loop. Any thoughts? Would electric cable make sense? Any showstoppers? Most thin cable I have lying around is single threaded, so I'll go shopping for some multi-threaded tomorrow and try it out. (I'm trying to finish the build fast so that I can demonstrate the machine at a local demo party next weekend - http://www.altparty.org/ :)). https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,17846#msg-17846 Sun, 13 Sep 2026 16:42:49 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,28823#msg-28823 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,28823#msg-28823
What if you printed a plastic ball screw assembly, filled it with steel ball bearings and printed the threaded ball screw rod? My first thought was, thats silly, it would bend like crazy, but what if you stiffened it with a cheap normal threaded rod? The ball screws would wear away imperfections in the plastic and you would get much faster linear motion with ~ hopefully ~ similar degree of accuracy.

The whole thing might need to sized up a bit to get the precision necessary, but it could be worth it.]]> Lawrence Kincheloe Mechanics Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:56:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,28536#msg-28536 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,28536#msg-28536 But still to expensive for our 3rd world reprap person.

Must trot down the car junk yard and see if a engine timming belt will work.

Stephen]]> stephen george Mechanics Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:38:14 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,28423#msg-28423 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,28423#msg-28423
[greenarrows-shed.blogspot.com]
[greenarrows-shed.blogspot.com]

I'm not sure they worked out much cheaper than timing belts in the end thought.]]> greenarrow Mechanics Fri, 09 Oct 2009 08:26:11 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27648#msg-27648 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27648#msg-27648 cogs on the engine?

I got the belt from a garage that I used to work for. I'm pretty sure that just about any car repair place will let you sift through their trash for used belts (or will keep the next one they change just for you) if you ask nicely. The gears however are too big and too massive to be of any use in a machine the size of a repstrap. I have an idea how to make simple pulleys from mdf using nothing more than a drill press. I'll give it a try over the weekend end then post the results with pictures.

Edit: due to some personal stuff this week I didn't get anything done, now will anything be done over the weekend. I'll keep you posted.]]> Corbarrad Mechanics Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:40:08 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27584#msg-27584 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27584#msg-27584
Viktor]]> VDX Mechanics Tue, 15 Sep 2009 03:59:30 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27572#msg-27572 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27572#msg-27572
>- I managed to score a timing belt today, for a VW 1.9 TDI engine.

Did you get it from a breakers yard? If so did you notice any useable
cogs on the engine?

The idea of having high quality metal cogs intergrated into the reprap seems
to me to be a good idea.

Stephen]]> stephen George 4 Mechanics Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:44:33 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27540#msg-27540 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27540#msg-27540 Looks good so far, the pitch is about 8mm, and the trapezoid teeth will allow or easy pulley construction and the total length should amount to about 1 meter.
The only problem i can see so far is that the pulleys will have to have at least 3-4 cm of diameter.
Unfortunately I won't have time to experiment until the weekend rolls around.
I'll keep you posted of any progress.]]> Corbarrad Mechanics Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:53:10 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27529#msg-27529 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27529#msg-27529 But they will deliver in two days.

If anyone wants to bulk buy this stuff the keywords for a google search seem to be
"synchronous belt t2.5" with t2.5 being the pitch in mm

Checked out the car timing belt situation and found this great site

[www.dzbelt.com]∂=220&page=19

Shows that VW golf III (1h1) has a timing belt pitch of 8mm width 19mm (can we cut it down). Code AA-TOP: 133S8M190A

[www.dzbelt.com]∂=220&page=38
Shows a Fiat Panda has a timing belt of pitch 8m width 15mm code AA-TOP 125STDN8M150. Bit it has a strange tooth shape.

[www.dzbelt.com]∂=220&page=31
Shows a timing belt for the lancia delta 9.5 pitch 18m but nice shaped tooth

Also found this
[www.6mm.com]
Which gave lots of techy advice.

Stephen]]> Stephen George3 Mechanics Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:50:00 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27480#msg-27480 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27480#msg-27480 1) They're big, I mean really big, and seeing as we're trying to reduce the size of the thing that isn't a good idea.

I'm pretty sure the automotive belts can be cut into narrowewr strips using a jig and a sharp blade.I'll have to try on monday.

-> 2) On a lot of vehicles, the timing belt is ribbed differently, either laterally (length ways) or V shaped, neither of which would have enough grip.

What you're thinking of are drive belts. timing belts have to be ribbed perpendicular because any slippage would mean instant death to the engine.

I've thought of RC car belts (currently building a belt driven buggy), but their teeth are around 2.5 mm which would make printing pulleys pretty much impossible (not to mention that I have yet to build a printer). Also I think a bigger belt should be easier to splice.

Anyway I think it's worth a try. I'll experiment a little on monday and post my findings, whether positive or negative.]]> Corbarrad Mechanics Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:18:32 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27476#msg-27476 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27476#msg-27476 1) They're big, I mean really big, and seeing as we're trying to reduce the size of the thing that isn't a good idea.
2) On a lot of vehicles, the timing belt is ribbed differently, either laterally (length ways) or V shaped, neither of which would have enough grip.

Though do go ahead and ask, don't quote me on face value, as I only looked at a few belts.

One type of belt that you can use which is fairly common, or splice together is R/C car belts, and often you can get a pulley with a grub screw in it to lock down onto the shaft of a motor or something. I did ask my local shop, and while they are short, it shouldn't be too difficult to splice together, though I assume vulcanizing rubber glue, you know the type to repair punctures in tyres, would work for splicing. Vik did try with success R/C helicopter belts, these are longer as they go from the main rotor to the tail rotor.]]> Grogyan Mechanics Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:40:55 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27471#msg-27471 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27471#msg-27471
I was just going to suggest the same thing.
Any Garage worth its salt should carry those.
Unfortunately all the car repair shops I have connections to are closed for the weekend. I'll hit the shops first thing on monday morning. Maybe I can score some discarded belts to experiment with. can't get cheaper than free, right?]]> Corbarrad Mechanics Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:32:49 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27376#msg-27376 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27376#msg-27376
Has anyone considered a car timing belt for the Z axis?

Yes I know the teeth are bigger but doesn't that just mean bigger cogs?

They are cheap to buy and if you go down to the scrap yard they are ususally
given free. (my favorite price)

Stephen

P.s. Anyone know what the spec is for the timing belt on the bit from bytes kit v2.0.0.0 ?]]> Stephen George2 Mechanics Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:58:47 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27105#msg-27105 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,27105#msg-27105
[repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:38:59 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26849#msg-26849 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26849#msg-26849
I got the Nema 17 motors at £12 each,]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Thu, 27 Aug 2009 10:34:51 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26722#msg-26722 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26722#msg-26722 philwaud Mechanics Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:08:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26699#msg-26699 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26699#msg-26699
Bertha now contains a Micro ATX PC running Emc2 Linux so its realy a CNC machine.

Just figuring out the PSUs and the stepper controllers cooling system will pop up pictures soon probably on my tools blog..

I have two Darwins at the moment one with bike chain and bearings and one with the imperial black belt from the rrrf.

The bike chains will only work with a bearing drive system...

Bertha will now have a 400 x 400 x 140 mm work area.

Why do you need to join the ball belt just make the meeting point the carridge with out a join. If you lok in my blog you can see i have two pairs of belt width holes ~I would just use tiewraps like I have for the belt.. Bike Chain is diffrent tho it needs to be tensioned]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:48:40 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26666#msg-26666 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26666#msg-26666
I was a bit dismayed when you said that you didnt need all those 608 bearings as I had just bought 32 of them! I have since seen that a heavier build will need them so I am using them anyway!

Ive just had a few days away camping in a teepee which gave me a chance to think things through.

I am going to make a jig using two stepper motors, one of them will turn the shaft with the cog blank on it and the other will raise an lower the dremmel using an eccentric cam. The whole think will be automated so removing possible operator error.

Ill post results asap.

The cogs to keep the four z axis shafts in sync can be quite large - im going for 30mm diameter. The larger the better as it will strain the ball and chain less. I have to devise a way of joining the ends of the balled chain, Im thinking of using thin wire to splice the ends together with the correct spacing but im open to suggestions.

Phil]]> philwaud Mechanics Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:39:00 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26494#msg-26494 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26494#msg-26494
Yep thats the chain I liked it because of the colour too.. I have 4M here I intend useing Peek for strength. I was also going to try wood doweling as that could sanded down to size.

Looks like you got some ASDA chopping board .. its nice and easy to drill and work with..

Im only have to take a few photos of the Y slider mounts and motor holder then will post the next part of repstrap darwin.]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:26:11 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26487#msg-26487 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26487#msg-26487
Found one suggestion on Thingiverse
[www.thingiverse.com]]]> Grogyan Mechanics Wed, 19 Aug 2009 03:11:57 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26479#msg-26479 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26479#msg-26479 [www.cnccookbook.com]

'sid]]> sid Mechanics Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:15:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26476#msg-26476 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26476#msg-26476
I was thinking more along the lines of nickel plated steel chain. If the cheap plastic ones will hold up long enough then that definitely is the way to go.

Adrian had used a stepper to make a similar jig. I would never have thought about it. I would have spent long hours measuring and still getting it wrong.

Going to try to make one of my own tomorrow. We'll see.]]> Arvin Mechanics Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:58:36 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26456#msg-26456 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26456#msg-26456
Ive ditched the idea of using screwed rods for the X+Y axis, and Im going to use a toothed belt. The belts arent easy to get hold of and are quite expensive so Ive been looking for alternatives.

I have managed to get some plastic coated steel cable but as expected it slips quite easily. I also bought some ball chain and that seems much more promising as long as I can get a suitable pulley. The pulley must be quite small to maintain accuracy. I made some rough calculations and worked out that I can make a 14.98mm pulled with 16 "teeth" that will link in with the balled chain that I have bought.
This will give a resolution of 0.12mm per step.



It was made by spinning a piece of acrillic sheet in a drill and filing it until it was the correct diameter, then mounting it on a stepper and moving round in 22.5 degree steps. I held a dremmel with a suitably shaped bit and made a ball shape indent each time the motor stepped. It was very crude!



The gear was a good fit, and with a suitable jig, I can make high quality and repeatable gears.

I managed to test the gear, I tied six half litre bottles of water to the chain, and the NEMA 23 motor easily lifted them. I was about to video it, but cracked the gear when I was adjusting it - typical!
]]> philwaud Mechanics Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:13:06 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26423#msg-26423 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26423#msg-26423 NewPerfection Mechanics Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:45:09 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26416#msg-26416 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26416#msg-26416
Driving the stages with threaded rod is just way too slow. I would have to buy some really expensive multi-start drive rod from McMaster/Carr or use expensive belts. I'm hoping someone will come up with a way to use the ball chain. It's cheap!

Looking forward to seeing your write up of your current efforts. I'm following your blogs now. Sure like the lego/like stuff you're working on!
Arvin]]> Arvin Mechanics Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:22:55 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26401#msg-26401 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26401#msg-26401 NewPerfection Mechanics Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:55:33 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26369#msg-26369 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26369#msg-26369
The strange thing thats has come about this search is that its is much cheaper to make RepRap Darwin than any other structure.

By cheap to build I mean at home without RP parts without special tools so any one can have or every one can build a Darwin with Lego like simplicity an extremely low cost I am looking now at a full cost of all parts below £200.

Using Method 3 the mechanics of Darwin fall to around £60 for the complete set-up.

You then need to add 7 stepper motors and the control electronics.. + PSU.

It has to be easy and simple to make so any one seeing the design for the first time says "hey i can make that it so easy" Once I finish my design using these simple nylon building blocks I hope that is the reaction a new commer will have.

NOte if you are Dyslexic do not use a spell checker without due care and attention it will change words like Darwin to drain.. and you need to re edit to correct it ..

PS As I left school at 15 to do an apprenticeship my grammer is extremly bad as well... When I have completed this project I will be posting the full instructions on the Wiki hope fully some one will quitely edit any ambigus or badly constructed sentances to make it simple and easy to read.]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:21:41 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26366#msg-26366 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26366#msg-26366
however for many many years nylon & cable was used for driving pointers dials and many other display contraptions.

Just look in any old Radio old TV, curtains in a cinema.. theatre etc. any old military electronics..

I look every where of bits to use for REPRAP when searching the internet thou its not often you find a European product sites the over whelming majority are US.

When you search you must have the same I'm guessing you filter to .de we filter to UK so its not often we see a .de site here is only by recommendation or from a UK based page.

My Solar power system Inverters are from Holland and 3 of 6 solar Panels from Germany it is much better to buy from Europe if you can find what you want. I bought some bits from Conrad the andrino from Italy.]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:45:22 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26365#msg-26365 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26365#msg-26365 but there's no need to order from overseas
(well, since you're on an island... ah you know what I mean ;))

the T2.5 belt for example costs twice as much here in germany (18.50 Euro/meter)
but the T5 is cheaper (8,55 Euro/meter) and there are no shipping costs at all.
go ahead take a look at maedler.de (since they have an english frontend, I guess they are willing to send across europe at least / probably for a shipping fee but surely no additional taxes)

You'll find some sites like that in GB too I'm sure ;)
take a close look at farnell or digikey, sometimes you'll find good deals there too.

You can try it with a cable, but it wont work reliably, so you'll end up with another idea until you get the belt to work.
(Or like me don't get the belt to work ;))

'sid]]> sid Mechanics Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:21:18 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26363#msg-26363 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26363#msg-26363
Yes the $2 motor is only cost effective for people in the US because the shipping is exorbitant. I bought 7 and the shipping was $42!

Same with the $7 tiny motors for Jameco.

Seems like you need to live in the US or the Far East to be able to buy cheap engineering parts.

Since most of the people building RepRaps are in the US and only a handful in the UK I figure it is worth evaluating these parts and blogging them.

I also have some samples of reclaimed motors sent to me from a company in the UK that scraps IT equipment. I haven't had time to evaluate those yet though. That could be a good way of getting cheap parts.

The four motors I use on my Darwin are actually scrapped from a German fruit machine (that's a slot machine if you are from the US).]]> nophead Mechanics Sun, 16 Aug 2009 03:46:35 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26358#msg-26358 Re: Alternatives to the toothed belt https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,17846,26358#msg-26358
In the UK it costs a bomb to get stuff from the USA in postage then we get unofficially taxed by the post-office who charge about $16 just to collect the tax which is 15% is usually a tiny fraction of that charge.

The UK is not as big as the US so the amount of available resources are considerably smaller.

following your 2$ Ebay example shipping costs for 4 of those $2 motors is $25 + $16 (post office charge) + 15% Tax

So the UK cost for those four $2 motors is now about $50.

Then what if they don't work?

I guess its not too different from Australia when it comes to buying stuff from overseas.

So in the UK we have to be more inventive to keep the costs down.

So my $30 of RRRF belt cost me at least $60 just with postage it was still cheaper than the belt sold here though. That's why people in the UK are trying bike chains and sink (faucet) plug chains (ball chains)

Can you now see the reason for us in the UK trying to think of better ways to to move our axis than the very expensive belt.

I am using 4 Stepper motors for my Z axis drive the motors cost me $24 each e.g. £12 brand new. Nophead bought the $15 stepper from Makerbot then paid $16 post office charge and 15% tax that's over $30 total cost see thread.

Generally the majority of second hand steppers seen on ebay are from the USA.

I paid $30 for 4 of the new bare extruder boards in May its now August they still haven't arrived... from the RRRF in USA. See thread]]> BodgeIt Mechanics Sat, 15 Aug 2009 19:53:28 -0400