The Remoter The remoter is a device to remote drive any turning mechanism within less than 278° by using ubiquitous bowden cables (bike brake cables). I conceived it while analyzing some driving mechanisms for the Simpson delta bot. You simply drive one pulley however you want and the other will follow. Easy to assemble, easy to tense, easy to find replacements. Will let many mechanisms to lost weight. I have in mind a robot arm as its second use [url=http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?178,233674](first use is in the Simpson arms).[/url] [attachment 20939 THEREMOTER.jpg] There are some improvements to be done that I have already been told. Please comment. Nicholas Seward, Annirak, please share your thoughts. What do you think? https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,264438#msg-264438 Thu, 11 Jun 2026 06:02:47 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,354750#msg-354750 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,354750#msg-354750 IMHO any kind of rotary flex shaft / speedometer cable / Dremel flexible Drive Shaft have no use in "slow" rotational movement.
Do these two tests:
  • Put in rotation (with your hands/pliers) one end of any one of these cable and look how long does it takes to see the ohter end to start to rotate...
  • Lock a pulley on one end of the cable, put some fishing line on this pulley, hook some load on the end of the fishing line which is not "locked" on the pulley.
    Now your pulley is a sort of fishing reel and the load is your fish....... now try to lift up the "fish" with your "fishing reel", by turning with the pliers the same end of before...
    You will notice that there will not be a real contemporaneity between the rotation of the two ends of the flexible shaft
This deficiency does not effect dremel (or similar tools) because they rotate at more than 1'000 rpm and could pass 10'000.rpm
I don't know the 3D printers of Yours but I doubt they Extrude so fast to need a so fast rotation of the extruder shaft, even if your extruder works in this way dApA screw extruder test

I find much more correct the "Synchromesh Drive Pulley" approach, but I cound't find (on the dealer website) a way to create a seamless closed loop "chain" with this "Synchromesh cable".
I think also that the old "ball-chain" (the same used in the old Darwin printer) could be a real good alternative but only if you find a way to create a seemless joint on this chain.

But until I coudn't find any way to do a REAL SEAMLESS JOINT in ball chain and in Synchromesh cable (suggestions needed) all this things will have to remain theories]]> Davide (Aqua Dulza) Mechanics Tue, 13 May 2014 16:54:46 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,347565#msg-347565 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,347565#msg-347565 escapement, but with cams instead of cogs to make the rotary motion smooth (and hopefully linear) across the travel of the mechanism?
I'm not enitrely sure one could make that sort of mechanism completely smooth, but it doesn't seem unreasonable at first glance.
I've been toying around with a roughly triangular bass pick, and it's fairly easy to make it rotate in one direction using the thumb and index finger of one hand as "pallets" while pinching the center as an "axis" with the other hand.

(Sorry for the necrobump, but I feel this is an interesting subject worthy of more investigation)

/Andreas]]> anwe79 Mechanics Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:04:05 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,298868#msg-298868 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,298868#msg-298868
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PulsedMedia
hmmm multi output... how about you need say 10 pieces of some print, operate two printers with same set of steppers... Just saying ;)


Yes, that is one of the first uses I devised for the mechanism. I have some images on page 1.

Regarding engines, they convert a sliding movement to a rotational one, while I'm talking about a reciprocating movement, so they are very different and their principle cannot be applied so directly.

The ide is having a reciprocating output (cw/ccw) at one side of the remoter with a mechanism that converts that movement in a continuous one (in an engine, all the pistons and rods do a continuous movement, always turning the crankshaft the same). With that mechanism at the end of the remoter, it could be used to transmit continuous power without all of the hassles (and patents) of the power window mechanisms and the need for continuous cable-belts. Only cheap bowden cables.

I hope mi explanation is clear 8-)]]> Guizmo Mechanics Tue, 21 Jan 2014 17:07:37 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,297704#msg-297704 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,297704#msg-297704
Thanks for reminding me this power transmission method is exists, this might help me with a weight issue on very large printer build. However, cables do flex, heavy gauge needs to be used for reliable long term use and further, backlash could be severe with this, but heavy gauge might solve that too.

I've seen the "backlash" in real life, it's more like life, X amount of torque applied will twist the cable Y amount without turning the end until Z amount of time - one of my cars used to accelerate so quickly that the speedometer lacked behind for many seconds :) No, i'm not kidding.
But i think some of the strands on the speedometer cable on that car probably was cut and that caused it - i have now a car which accelerates even quicker, yet it's speedometer doesn't lag as much (same make and same series model of car, only couple years apart, same speedometer cable, same transmission, almost exactly the same gauge clusters)


Good food for thought.]]> PulsedMedia Mechanics Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:02:08 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,297699#msg-297699 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,297699#msg-297699
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Guizmo
Wow, thanks guys!

@ddseeker: I also tried to find the patent for the Spal system with no success, but that valve actuador is a great insight.

I'm also thinking about a mechanism that could convert a reciprocating movement to a continuous one, so we could use the remoter in an oscillating way to drive a continuously turning output. One way could be engaging and disengaging automatically a free turning gear to change the direction in a small gear train, using only mechanics... well just a thought.

That one is easy, see engines :)
Reciprocating force turned into continuous with the crankshaft + conrod + piston assembly ;)
In this case, just a rod + offset shaft is required.]]> PulsedMedia Mechanics Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:53:22 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,278758#msg-278758 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,278758#msg-278758 Guizmo Mechanics Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:56:04 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,277670#msg-277670 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,277670#msg-277670
Ralph]]> Ralphxyz Mechanics Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:59:09 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,272774#msg-272774 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,272774#msg-272774
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Guizmo
@tjb1: Thanks for the comment. Yes, the cables are "twisted" but that does not affect the system. If you analyze carrefully, you will see that there is no correct direction of turning, becasuse you can mount the driven mechanism anyway you want, and it is supposed you can drive the motor to any direction you want, so that's no problem. In fact, crossing the cables allows them to flex more easily than running them in parallel.

Yes, I knew it was too early... I see now, I thought both terminated at the same point. I now see one wraps. All good now, thanks.]]> tjb1 Mechanics Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:15:33 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,272756#msg-272756 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,272756#msg-272756 Guizmo Mechanics Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:02:05 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,272666#msg-272666 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,272666#msg-272666 tjb1 Mechanics Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:54:33 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269661#msg-269661 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269661#msg-269661 Annirak Mechanics Wed, 20 Nov 2013 09:49:46 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269484#msg-269484 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269484#msg-269484
How good do you believe those mechanisms will be with backlash? May we need 2 of them working in parallel just like your gearbox to eliminate backlash?]]> Guizmo Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 19:30:26 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269481#msg-269481 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269481#msg-269481
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Guizmo
EDIT: SPAL patent was re-examined in 1999, so it's still enforced. :( Anyway, it's good to learn and improve existing technology. Let's make it better!

As near as I can tell, re-examination does not reset the clock on patents. The 1988 patent has expired. Anything claimed in it should be fair game now.]]> Annirak Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 19:09:42 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269416#msg-269416 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269416#msg-269416
Making this at home will be extremely dificult. It has to be super precise to be usable. I bet there is something comercial already that can replace the ball chain.

@Nicholas, what is that chain with 90° twist?]]> Guizmo Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 16:16:26 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269269#msg-269269 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269269#msg-269269
You could also use one type of bead that has shoulders on each side.

Sourcing the housing is the next problem. I guess we could make our own. All we have to do is wrap thin gauge music wire around a core and then coat that. Surely we can source it though.]]> nicholas.seward Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:24:56 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269266#msg-269266 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269266#msg-269266
You also need to smooth the outside of the chain.

Isn't the ball chain patent expired?]]> nicholas.seward Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:07:19 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269264#msg-269264 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269264#msg-269264 Annirak Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:54:39 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269233#msg-269233 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,269233#msg-269233

All of them good ideas. I just hope one day the remoter can work continuoustly and without backlash. Well, backlash problem has been solved with Annirak's design, but for contionuous motion we would probably need a complete redesign. Feel free to to incorporate to any design or better yet, improve it.]]> Guizmo Mechanics Tue, 19 Nov 2013 09:19:52 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,268532#msg-268532 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,268532#msg-268532
Assuming this could be made to have continous rotation and no backlash, I'm thinking it could eliminate one of the Z-motors on a traditional mendel-style reprap.
I know the original Mendel had belt drive for the secondary, but I think it was abandoned due to backlash? (Maybe GT2 belts would be a simpler/cheaper fix for this)
Having synchronized motion would make calibration easier and enable manual turning of the screws without uppsetting bed/x-axis alignment.

On a tangential note, thinking about a bowden style drive (be it synchromesh/ball chain/speedometer/flex shaft) for an extruder, what if you combined it with a harmonic drive at the extruder?
I figure having a drive that is not easily driven backwards from the output would be nice at the extruder.
Given reasonably low friction in the bowden arrangement you could drive the cable at speed and still get plenty of torque through the harmonic drive.
Intuitively it feels like retraction calibration would be less messy and less dependant on the springiness of the filament than a traditional bowden extruder, but I may be wrong.
I wonder how durable a printed harmonic drive would be though...
The tendency for wind-up sounds like it may be a hurdle too, but I don't quite understand how it builds up in the mechanism.
I've never used a harmonic drive myself, so I don't know how feasible this would be, maybe it's just crazy-talk.

Oh wait... The remoter would be perfect for using external motors with a heated build chamber, wouldn't it?

Just throwing out some ideas here, please pull them apart at your leisure :)

/Andreas]]> anwe79 Mechanics Sun, 17 Nov 2013 19:15:53 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,267174#msg-267174 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,267174#msg-267174 Guizmo Mechanics Thu, 14 Nov 2013 18:27:38 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,267079#msg-267079 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,267079#msg-267079 Annirak Mechanics Thu, 14 Nov 2013 15:35:29 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,267027#msg-267027 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,267027#msg-267027
I'm working on a 3 DOF robot arm printer and RD (remote drive) is a must. Just imagine the problems that would be faced if moving the motors with the arm, a total nightmare.

So you plan to make a version for GUS in about 5 years? :D I'm just kidding]]> Guizmo Mechanics Thu, 14 Nov 2013 14:01:21 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266983#msg-266983 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266983#msg-266983
I will definitely play with the design for my printers. However, it will be for medium to high range printers. It is too expensive for the low end.

When I have time (ha) I plan on making a version for GUS. It would also be amazing for a 5D robot arm printer.]]> nicholas.seward Mechanics Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:17:03 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266975#msg-266975 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266975#msg-266975
Thanks Annirak and Nicholas. Any plan to use this system?]]> Guizmo Mechanics Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:51:19 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266738#msg-266738 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266738#msg-266738
@Nicholas.Seward, I hadn't realised that the compression spring was the preferred alternative, but now that I think about it, it would be much easier to mount!]]> Annirak Mechanics Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:12:58 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266665#msg-266665 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266665#msg-266665
The compression spring is much easier to source.]]> nicholas.seward Mechanics Wed, 13 Nov 2013 19:07:00 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266658#msg-266658 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266658#msg-266658
Thanks!]]> Guizmo Mechanics Wed, 13 Nov 2013 18:49:14 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266635#msg-266635 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266635#msg-266635 [attachment 21150 Image2.jpg]

A quick explanation of what we're looking at: The two gears on the left are attached to cable pulleys, much like Guizmo's original design. Here's where things differ. The two pulleys are not directly connected. Neither are two reduction gears.

The hole that's visible in the gearbox brace in the foreground is the mounting point for one of the bowden cables. There is a similar one on the other side.

The point of this design is that there are two symmetrical gearboxes attached to the same drive gear. That means that the two pulleys move almost in sync, except for backlash. But when you tighten the bowden cables, all the slack comes out of the gearbox as the tension absorbs any play in the gears. If there is any static tension in the bowden cables, all the backlash is gone from the gearbox. With a gear reducer like this, very little friction is added; you could design the same zero-backlash reducer with worm gears, but the tensioning force would introduce a lot of friction between the worm and the gear.

So there it is, a zero-backlash torque multiplier for bowden drives.

nicholas.seward points out that you could mount a torsion spring in one of the pulleys to allow for stretching in the bowden cables without constant need for tightening.]]> Annirak Mechanics Wed, 13 Nov 2013 18:10:23 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266601#msg-266601 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266601#msg-266601
I'm very far from being an expert, but that's what I've learned]]> Guizmo Mechanics Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:18:30 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266572#msg-266572 Re: The Remoter https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?14,264438,266572#msg-266572
Note sure how much torque loss and backlash you would get with using it like a dremel drive shaft.

(pardon my ignorance and incorrect nomenclature of things, still a newb)]]> ddseeker Mechanics Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:24:24 -0500