almost working

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 10:08:06 -0500

HAHA did I mention I was NEWB!

I found that to get dual extrusion i need to change my motherboard variable from 33 to 34!,i've seen this option often but thought it was selecting processor type! whatta newb!
but that is good, i am able to configure for second extruder, the bad news is i had a huge pla clog recently and now need new feed tube connector for filiment, more good news is that i was able to get larger builds done and seems that any of my small calibration anomalies do not impact part alignment on higher layers.
although i am sad that my machine cannot support the 3 head diamond nozzle, oh well...

Just a few Questions!:
0)

1) but i still get little blobs that hang on wall outside of perimeter, likewise i get 1 or 2 spots where it did not fill proper and is porous to water, which slice setting would help this, maybe my spool is getting randomly snagged again?

2)will need to replace entire effector section, is it safe/simple to reprint this part, ok to use pla?

3) Have been looking at color slicers as suggested but could only find solidworks, is there anything i can use that is more free?

4) Having problems choosing what to get for upgrade, so far my list is: stepper motor, wire harness, bowden tube, tube connectors, extruder mechanism, hot end, temp sensor, tip....anything else i am missing?

5) what is the best option, are there pros/cons, any recommendations for a good/better purchase? :
a) [www.aliexpress.com]

I would prefer something like this where i can blend and get a better greyscale, are there problems with these?

b)http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1hc9TIpXXXXbKXXXXq6xXFXXXl/Dual-Extruder-Double-Heads-E3D-Chimera-Hot-End-Reprap-3D-Printer-Prusa-I3-Two-color-Printing.jpg

cant blend as well with this one, also is heat sink large enough?

c) [www.aliexpress.com]

should i be safe and just get this one, isnt all that metal alot of weight?

YAY guys, YAY!

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Wed, 06 Jan 2016 12:12:58 -0500

Thanks Neutrino, I did start investigation for multicolour software, but I realize now that i dont have hardware to use the 3 colour one, however i am reviewing use of your software still, will let you know, I have decided that if i can get dual nozzels going i will rebuild the entire head, otherwise i'm not going to bother fixing these other small problems. such as the fact that i was should have gotten 0.4tip but received 0.6mm tip

Also thanks for the screen shots, was worth 1000 words, I get now why we turn the layer height down and I am seeing noticeably better prints,

Also I now question if my rods are in fact out of line, especially since i was articulate with the gluing instructions, and the g29, after getting the offset almost level in the bed, i could still see where at the bottom was a nice flat line but in the other side was squishing to the bed, a simple adjustment of the z endstop and now prints are starting off more level... but g29 now says im way further offset then before, although the prints are coming out better, i wonder if there is maybe flaw in my induction probe causing bad reports.

But I am having one last(I hope) problem, it seems that at about 10-12mm height i am getting a glitch, where at first i though my spool isn't unrolling and getting caught stopping the extrusion, now i am not so sure and question if its somthing else, it almost seems like when it hits these few layers it stops extruding , not sure if its in the gcode or what. I dont think reel is jamming since it happened to several different prints near the same layer. As you can see one print was saved and able to be completed, but the
maybe a slicer setting>? maybe i should re-check spool feed? any ideas what else this could be?

*sry it was filiment snag!

Re: almost working

Neutrino — Sat, 26 Dec 2015 13:39:57 -0500

Hey,

just to say, i have finished my first printer delta a couple of months ago. I started with an electronics (RAMPS) and premodified version of firmware from the vendor(marlin), But then i decided to go for 32bit electronics because of movement speed and better accuracy microsteppers (less noisy), To go from "preloaded" customized firmware to something else is pretty easy. I switched to repetier as their firmware is awesome for delta's (i think the coder behind it also focuses on deltas).

[www.repetier.com]

there you can have a peak and download the firmware. I'm a big fan of purity / opensouce so i decided to go away from a modified version to something "standard" If you need help translating from Marlin Configuration.h to repetier feel free to ask.

Btw. before you start tinkering with a new nozzle (3 colors) I'd recommend you to get familar with 3D Modeling and get used to the slicers.

Happy XMas

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Fri, 25 Dec 2015 22:13:38 -0500

I am starting to realise that FOLGER is the company who made this printer
Is MARLIN the design/model type?

I wonder if I could rip code from somewhere/someone else for my device, if it would be compatable., since i notice we all mostly use adruino and ramps board, i think mine is version 1.4.
I double checked and the pins are set up too, but this is the line i get error on:
#define _WRITE_NC(IO, v) do { if (v) {DIO ## IO ## _WPORT |= MASK(DIO ## IO ## _PIN); } else {DIO ## IO ## _WPORT &= ~MASK(DIO ## IO ## _PIN); }; } while (0)

also does anyone use other compiler besides basic Adruino? like something with debugging, I'm trying to compile using atmel studio but have problems there too...

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Wed, 23 Dec 2015 00:34:11 -0500

lol , ya tried that first, lots of errors came back , i dont think its setup proper in the folger firmware, which was a surprise since again , the hardware is ready to go

Re: almost working

nebbian — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:51:12 -0500

To turn it on I think you just need to find this line in Configuration.h:

#define EXTRUDERS 1

and change it to 2.

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Tue, 22 Dec 2015 21:41:30 -0500

Update: I figured out, i do have hardware to support dual extrusion, but discovered firmware does not support it, was there mention of an upgrade available?

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 23:57:51 -0500

yes, i have seen such things too, also i notice the lower resolution I have, I hope that the new tip will resolve that, I have a feeling i will need to rebuild the whole head including end rods, but i fear low resolution will cause negative impact printing a new effector and such.

all in all my prints have been ok, i still get spots where the filiment leaves a gap or misses catching an overhang. i see alot on thingverse , things that screw on to pop bottles and garden hose ends. I have found slurry to make a good primer coat and seals the small cracks as well as smooths, but im not confident that it will stand up to the hose's pressure. is this due to low resolution as well, or one of the earlier problems i had?

also should it be so hard to change spools? i find it hard to feed through the heatsink and heat coupling, usually what i do to compensate is unscrew the plastic feed tube at the heat sink, extend the plastic enough to reach through to hotend, then i can fish it down and rescrew down feed tube, is that normal?

I realse now that i cannot support that way cool tripple print head, but i did check the circuits and it seems i have one ramps board free, does that mean to be for the second extruder stepper motor, but then how do i connect second hotend or second temp sensor, temp sensor would be easy if software supports , but what about 2nd nose heater i dont think it should be hooked parallel with the first one? .....Lots of servo pins though.....

on a more positive note, I have my first sucessful print job, a Johnny5 eye !

Re: almost working

nebbian — Mon, 21 Dec 2015 09:17:01 -0500

Quote
dc42

Quote
DrDoggy
folger kossel mini 2020 rev b
audrino with marlin and ramps boards

With 8-bit electronics running a delta, the printing speed may be limited by the electronics, and the travel speed certainly will be. I can't say what maximum speed you will be able to achieve because I don't use 8-bit electronics, which is why I was waiting for someone else to answer you. However, some people who run on RAMPS say that Repetier is more efficient than Marlin for running a delta.

In the time I've had my Kossel Mini, I've run into many different limitations of my hardware, several limitations in the slicer, and a couple of electrical issues in the RAMPS board. However I haven't run into any limitations due to the control system of Arduino / Marlin.

Speed is limited to physical factors (we're dealing with molten, saggy plastic that behaves differently when laid down fast vs slow) rather than 8 bit limitations.

I've seen artefacts caused by running belt teeth over idler bearings, poor slicing algorithms, or plastic pushing on the line next to it, but never artefacts caused by the 8 bit control system. I've certainly had to slow down the print in certain cases, but this is always due to how the plastic behaves, not due to the control system.

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough, but for me at least, the type of controller inside my printer isn't a limiting factor at the moment. There are loads of other issues that have a bigger effect on your finished product than whether you've moved to the fancy new 32 bit electronics, imho.

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 15:09:16 -0500

marlin was just what came with it , is there place to download Repetier, is there version specific to my device, i would assume things change across different printer configs, ie, Ramps boards may connect different across different printers,

also , what anomolies occure when i run too fast? so far all i have seen is my thickness die off and extruder start slipping.

Re: almost working

dc42 — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 12:24:21 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy
folger kossel mini 2020 rev b
audrino with marlin and ramps boards

With 8-bit electronics running a delta, the printing speed may be limited by the electronics, and the travel speed certainly will be. I can't say what maximum speed you will be able to achieve because I don't use 8-bit electronics, which is why I was waiting for someone else to answer you. However, some people who run on RAMPS say that Repetier is more efficient than Marlin for running a delta.

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 10:38:04 -0500

k,, thanks again guys , this has been priceless amounts of help

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:32:42 -0500

folger kossel mini 2020 rev b
audrino with marlin and ramps boards

Re: almost working

dc42 — Thu, 17 Dec 2015 03:55:23 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy
yes finally getting the butterflies now that i should have 2 months ago when i finished building, I just cant believe the new low in customer care that this company provided, they had good build instructions , but no usage instructions. I really appreciate your guys help for picking up that slack. As a newb I would have been lost!

lol, I was just noticing sloppy raft layer too, i think i will turn mine off as well. I think i will order more rods, also my next question was can i get a 1mm tip, I see by the settings that i can!
btw.. is 40-60mm/s the fastest i should go? ,, even with my 4mm tip?

also what software do we use for designing 3d models? so far i have been using autodesk inventor. which works pretty good, but just wondering about other popular options?

I don't think you have told us yet in this thread which company you purchased the printer from. Also you haven't told us which electronics and firmware you are running, so we can't tell you whether 40-60mm/s is the fastest you can print or not. Some delta printers can manage infill at 120mm/sec.

Re: almost working

LarsK — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:08:31 -0500

Hey,0.1mm is too thin. Stick to your 0.4. That's a great size.

There is a ton of threads and opinions about 3d design . inventor is a solid program. I use sw.

All the other stuff is doable and people are more or less doing it - the exception is the dremel, that will not work.removing material is an entirely different story then adding it.

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 08:41:35 -0500

yes finally getting the butterflies now that i should have 2 months ago when i finished building, I just cant believe the new low in customer care that this company provided, they had good build instructions , but no usage instructions. I really appreciate your guys help for picking up that slack. As a newb I would have been lost!

lol, I was just noticing sloppy raft layer too, i think i will turn mine off as well. I think i will order more rods, also my next question was can i get a 1mm tip, I see by the settings that i can!
btw.. is 40-60mm/s the fastest i should go? ,, even with my 4mm tip?

also what software do we use for designing 3d models? so far i have been using autodesk inventor. which works pretty good, but just wondering about other popular options?

:)
so now that i got it all together , lets take it all apart...!!

1) Already i want to create attachments to my print head, was thinking about adding one of these first:
[www.gizmag.com]

2) It would also be neat to have a liquid extruder for chocolate and sugar!

3) I also want to attach a balpoint pen or magic marker mount for 2d sketching, idk why

4) maybe a mount for dremmel or laser head?

5) anything else cool that i can get?

Is my printer/adruino board/firmware able to accept all these upgrades what would it take? and where should i get them?

ps. btw, how associated are you guys with the firmware/ and inner calcuations of deltas? ie one example , equations to calculate the deltas to get xyz pos. and such? or adding additional extruders & components.

Re: almost working

nebbian — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 09:49:14 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy

Got my first half a$$ print to finish yesterday without any lifting what so ever!! but should be able to perfect next run.

any chance we could post the other slicer settings , i would like to see what you guys use for layers, infill , support and speed.

Good to hear that you're making progress. It can be frustrating when you've got a problem that's stopping you from making an acceptable print.

Here are my settings, for what they're worth. Note that I've only really tweaked the speeds here, the rest of the screens are close to stock. I'm reasonably happy with these settings for what I print most (small bricks, similar to lego pieces).

I used to think that using a raft was the best way to get good adhesion. But now that I know about the trick of using a wide extrusion on the first layer to get good squish, I much prefer to go without a raft. When you use a raft you end up with a stringy bottom layer on the piece, which isn't that great to look at.

[attachment 67741 ScreenShot2015-12-15at22.41.png]
[attachment 67742 ScreenShot2015-12-15at22.422.png]
[attachment 67743 ScreenShot2015-12-15at22.42.png]
[attachment 67744 ScreenShot2015-12-15at22.421.png]

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 09:44:25 -0500

BANG, right on the head!

So that was my problem, my infill was set to 100% and extruder feed at 30mm/s, which was also the print speed i was using! Which is what i did earlier to try to compensate for a jamming problem i had(mostly a newb thing). Then excess fill was causing friction for my nozzle, and when it got to the higher layers the plastic was cooling enough on the bed so that the nozzle couldn't reheat it in time, causing a push on the model and eventually getting stuck and lifting!

Got my first half a$$ print to finish yesterday without any lifting what so ever!! but should be able to perfect next run.

any chance we could post the other slicer settings , i would like to see what you guys use for layers, infill , support and speed.

thanks again!

Re: almost working

LarsK — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 13:23:18 -0500

Hey,

Thanks Nebbian - Learning everyday. Actually I am relearning. I realize now that I used that setting back when I made my own Delta and then I have gone and forgotten all about it :D

@ DrDoggy, at the risk of getting another telling off from Nebbian ;) - You don't actually need there to be any extrusion everywhere on the first layer. Assuming your Delta is badly calibrated and you don't have any ways to fix it;

It is better to have zero extrusion on some spots but great contact on other spots, then it is to have extrusion everywhere but poor contact on some spots. This is because there is always a second layer. So even if you get zero extrusion on some areas of the bed on the first layer it will come by with a second layer and redo it. Meanwhile, if you do not get good bed-contact then that will never improve with the next layer.

If you do as DC instructs you, reduce the current so that the extruder just misses steps, then it will not harm anything that it does this in some areas of your first layer.

Obviously the above is a bit of cowboy method, but so is the slurry that you are using now and the z-offset you already made, so well -

What I'm saying, if you wanna print something even bigger and you start to have bed contact problems again, then you just go and double that "First layer" extrusion and reduce the Z-height offset a little more. While printing with that, you can order new rods :)

Re: almost working

nebbian — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 09:17:12 -0500

Quote
LarsK

Quote
nebbian

The way to get good squish on the first layer is to set your first layer extrusion width to be more than your nozzle width in your slicer. I'm having good results with 0.5-0.7mm while using a 0.4mm nozzle. Don't use a percentage, use a manual extrusion width.

Good points. I have no experience with that approach. I can't seem to find the option in Slic3r? But next time I need Cura I will see about it.

I use slic3r as well, the relevant setting is here:

[attachment 67600 Slic3rsettings.png]

Re: almost working

dc42 — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 03:45:16 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy
Another thing that concerns me is the motor that feeds the filimant, it seemed to strip the material alot and i always had to brush it out, so what i did was added a reinforcement post to help the spring, just a notch, so now the motor skips a step when the filiment isnt feeding instead of stripping. but i hear it skip alot , right now i have it at 30mm/s to work does that sound like an ideal speed? would it be smrt to turn the extruder temperature up so it can push out faster?

Reduce the motor current so that when the nozzle is obstructed, the motor skips steps instead of the extruder chewing the filament.

30mm/sec filament feed into the hot end is much faster than you need.

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 00:23:23 -0500

hmm, well used glue and a nail to align, still only 0.3 mm in the bed, shouldn't be a problem ? is there a way to make up for exclusively z-rods offset in the code?

so what does g29 exactly do , just diagnostic report? no calibration what so ever?, kinda misleading!

also! slury worked great! stuck right to the bed, when the curl happened it even pulled the tape off a bit, but the tape was able to resist enough to continue the print, also i am finding slurry globs makes great reinforcement when curles start. Thanks again!

Another thing that concerns me is the motor that feeds the filimant, it seemed to strip the material alot and i always had to brush it out, so what i did was added a reinforcement post to help the spring, just a notch, so now the motor skips a step when the filiment isnt feeding instead of stripping. but i hear it skip alot , right now i have it at 30mm/s to work does that sound like an ideal speed? would it be smrt to turn the extruder temperature up so it can push out faster?

Re: almost working

xile6 — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 19:03:26 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy
.....one thing that i cant figure out how to get out is how to get that u shape we are seeing across that one diagional (bottom left to top right), but again the g29 should resolve that , no?

Ima head off to the store now, get some acetone and a box, see if that help me any, will update post soon

G29 doesnt fix all that. If the printer isnt build correct or the information is off in the firmware, it will not move flat across the bed.
I had the carbon rods. I would do about 3 to 4 prints and then i would have problems. lifting comers or effector just not being flat.
Turns out my rods werent glued and the threads they made suck. So as the effector moved the rods would get longer and uneven.
New metal threaded rods and a recalibate fix that.

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 14:24:46 -0500

thnk guys, all these tidbits are really helping, and dev my understandings,

as for mucking firmware , this was a kit , so it was prolly never right anyway, and had to start fresh.

i also changed the z offset to get as close in there as it could but if i get any lower, its too low and blocks nozzle on the one side, but is still not spreading that flat thin on the other side,

so i re-evaluated my rod and offset values as well as took a closers look at some of the dimensions, for example i correctd my z-probe x,y offset and the increment value , and brought the anomolies in bed down to a range of 0.3mm, here is G29 results:

0.262 0.262 0.262 0.337 0.5 0.5 0.50
0.262 0.262 0.3 0.312 0.387 0.55 0.55
0.325 0.3 0.3 0.338 0.35 0.425 0.49
0.35 0.3 0.325 0.4 0.425 0.362 0.36
0.362 0.25 0.312 0.35 0.362 0.275 0.28
0.387 0.387 0.362 0.4 0.387 0.312 0.31
0.537 0.537 0.537 0.512 0.437 0.437 0.44

one thing that i cant figure out how to get out is how to get that u shape we are seeing across that one diagional (bottom left to top right), but again the g29 should resolve that , no?

Ima head off to the store now, get some acetone and a box, see if that help me any, will update post soon

Re: almost working

LarsK — Fri, 11 Dec 2015 05:56:06 -0500

Quote
nebbian

Quote
LarsK

(1) Increase the Z-length by 0.2 (printer settings). and set the first layer bed height to 0.3 (slicer settings).

This will push your nozzle closer to the bed. Do this even if you think you have perfect bed alignment. This will "trick" the printer into really pushing the first print layers onto the bed.

Have a look at these images to understand. To a very rough first approximation, the more pushed into the bed the better bed adhersion. But at a cost of print quality. But get your printer working, then you can start making better print.

I strongly disagree with doing things this way. You should set the first layer in your slicing software, rather than miscalibrating your machine.

The way to get good squish on the first layer is to set your first layer extrusion width to be more than your nozzle width in your slicer. I'm having good results with 0.5-0.7mm while using a 0.4mm nozzle. Don't use a percentage, use a manual extrusion width.

The difference between our approaches is that setting this in your slicer will widen the distance between lines in the first layer, meaning the perfect amount of plastic will be extruded. Your print quality won't suffer.
Doing things by miscalibrating your first layer height will result in a lot of overextrusion, which looks ugly, squishes plastic around the edges of your print, and doesn't give as good an adhesion as just setting the first layer extrusion width properly. You said it yourself: at a cost of print quality. It doesn't have to be that way.

I hope this helps.

Good points. I have no experience with that approach. I can't seem to find the option in Slic3r? But next time I need Cura I will see about it.

In this particular case I think that the general alignment is still a little off, if you look at the marked red circle here:

IMG_20151209_190120%252520%2525281%252529.jpg

Re: almost working

voi9viper — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 22:09:16 -0500

You can put a large cardboard box upside down over your printer. Way cheap enclosure, and it helps. The best thing for you I think is a PEI bed. You can get 1/8 inch sheets from Grainger, but they are $80. You can go cheaper with a 1/32 inch sheet and laminate it to borosilicate glass, and the glass is around $15, plus $23 for the 1/32 PEI. ABS sticks to this stuff incredibly well, in fact if you really get your first layer pressed down into the PEI you can have trouble removing the print. When set up right you stop getting lifting corners and the object pops off the bed when the bed cools below 60 degrees C. I think it's worth the extra cost, which you get back with a lot fewer failed prints.

ABS curls because the higher layers cool off and shrink. The lowest layers are kept warm by the bed. An enclosure keeps the whole object warmer, so less shrinking / curling. Oh, all the prices I listed were for 300x300mm , or 12x12in

If you don't upgrade I would try ABS slurry, made by dissolving waste filament in acetone overnight, which make a sort of ABS glue, spread over the print surface before printing. If you decide to try that there is a lot of info already out there, or I can go into more detail.

David

Re: almost working

nebbian — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:22:32 -0500

Quote
LarsK

(1) Increase the Z-length by 0.2 (printer settings). and set the first layer bed height to 0.3 (slicer settings).

This will push your nozzle closer to the bed. Do this even if you think you have perfect bed alignment. This will "trick" the printer into really pushing the first print layers onto the bed.

Have a look at these images to understand. To a very rough first approximation, the more pushed into the bed the better bed adhersion. But at a cost of print quality. But get your printer working, then you can start making better print.

I strongly disagree with doing things this way. You should set the first layer in your slicing software, rather than miscalibrating your machine.

The way to get good squish on the first layer is to set your first layer extrusion width to be more than your nozzle width in your slicer. I'm having good results with 0.5-0.7mm while using a 0.4mm nozzle. Don't use a percentage, use a manual extrusion width.

The difference between our approaches is that setting this in your slicer will widen the distance between lines in the first layer, meaning the perfect amount of plastic will be extruded. Your print quality won't suffer.
Doing things by miscalibrating your first layer height will result in a lot of overextrusion, which looks ugly, squishes plastic around the edges of your print, and doesn't give as good an adhesion as just setting the first layer extrusion width properly. You said it yourself: at a cost of print quality. It doesn't have to be that way.

I hope this helps.

Re: almost working

xile6 — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:59:40 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy
ok I will change it , thanks for all the great help guys!

but in regards to this , should i change the z probe offset value?
OR (should i say)
does the g29 code actually autolevel and reset the base location in firmware?

Yea change the z probe z height offset.

I do the paper test first to find the offset in the center then i start with a test 20mm cube and watch the skirt and frist layer, then change the offset as needed.

You want a nice flat skirt and first layer

Re: almost working

DrDoggy — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 19:16:37 -0500

ok I will change it , thanks for all the great help guys!

but in regards to this , should i change the z probe offset value?
OR (should i say)
does the g29 code actually autolevel and reset the base location in firmware?

Re: almost working

LarsK — Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:28:37 -0500

Quote
DrDoggy
bed is metal/steel,

I have no experience with that, so I will let someone else be smart about if you should continue with Kapton tape or no.

Quote
DrDoggy
should i get other fan, also if i understand it should point at tip of nozzel , or top layer of plastic, but not at bed?

You should under no circumstance be blowing anything at your print or your bed or you nozzle tip. The only part that you should be cooling is the cooling ribs of your hotend.

You can see my hotend by following this link - See how my hotend is entirely enclosed and I even have the airflows directed upwards. You want absolutely zero moving air around your print. You will be OK for most parts if you just go with a normal ducting.

Finally, as Xile6 is also saying, your nozzle height is not OK. Don't be afraid to lower it those ~0.2 ish (as changed in "Max Z Height". You just change it in EEPROM and you can always change it back. It will not affect your bed alignment, only push the nozzle closer to the bed.