In keeping with the recent standards discussion, I think the time is ripe for at least one standard. It looks like a fair number of reprap variants are looking at vertical x axis smooth rod arrangements (emaker huxley, mixtape mendel, reprap.org/wiki/X-carriage-struder, etc.) I'm soon to be thinking about that choice myself on the test tube mendel, and leaning toward a vertical x axis. Rod spacing is a critical dimension, and I think it would be good to get that standardized so that vertical format extruders could interchange between variants. I think also that it should be a bit wider spacing than the standard horizontal spacing (mendel and prusa) to allow for the motor to protrude through the x smooth bars if desired. https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,95828#msg-95828 Mon, 10 Aug 2026 22:36:39 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,113396#msg-113396 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,113396#msg-113396 nybi.cc)

It will spur a reprap built by/for everyone ! (Probably a Prusa, with a vertical axis ? ;))]]> Emmanuel Developers Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:20:10 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110564#msg-110564 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110564#msg-110564 -------------------------------------------------------
> Alternatively we could all just hack on our own designs, borrowing
> from each other until enough people have tried
> them out that a consensus emerges. I think
> adoption will likely be more influenced by other
> things though.

I'm in that boat already. There are a bunch of ideas out there now that i can borrow from and evolve, which is what made the contest a win for everybody.

The one piece left out of the standard is where the belt runs, and how it connects to the x carriage. can't have everything, though. and leaving it out of the standard/contest allowed the contestants to experiment.]]> Buback Developers Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:20:14 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110489#msg-110489 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110489#msg-110489 bryanandaimee Developers Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:03:22 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110405#msg-110405 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110405#msg-110405
Cheers :)-D]]> NoobMan Developers Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:37:49 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110236#msg-110236 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110236#msg-110236 Perhaps we should try to integrate the good parts of each design into one great design? Having one main design might convince people easier to adapt the vertical x-axis idea.]]> north90ty Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:09:59 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110230#msg-110230 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110230#msg-110230
Congratulations to the victors, it's a win for all of us!]]> droftarts Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:13:42 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110220#msg-110220 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110220#msg-110220 Emmanuel Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:21:18 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110211#msg-110211 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110211#msg-110211
Hope you guys enjoy your prizes. :-)]]> Buback Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 15:59:54 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110181#msg-110181 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110181#msg-110181 bryanandaimee Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:30:17 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110165#msg-110165 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110165#msg-110165 Dale Dunn Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 09:36:20 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110150#msg-110150 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110150#msg-110150
I'm happy to see this contest worked out so well. A new model for triggering collaboration in open source hardware?]]> Traumflug Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 05:48:02 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110117#msg-110117 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,110117#msg-110117 reprap.org]]]> bryanandaimee Developers Thu, 15 Dec 2011 01:51:02 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107711#msg-107711 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107711#msg-107711
Bryan]]> bryanandaimee Developers Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:19:30 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107613#msg-107613 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107613#msg-107613 One clear disadvantage is that it is not always easy to use existing extruder and hot-end designs.
Frank]]> north90ty Developers Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:13:45 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107567#msg-107567 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107567#msg-107567
Bryan

[reprap.org]]]> bryanandaimee Developers Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:19:47 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107504#msg-107504 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,107504#msg-107504 Pointedstick Developers Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:02:08 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100887#msg-100887 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100887#msg-100887 NoobMan Developers Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:16:52 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100876#msg-100876 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100876#msg-100876
I wasn't thinking this through quite enough. Forgot splitting up the heads adds an extra variable.

So what we really need is a g-code command for store current position, and go to stored position.

I suppose I should start a new thread since we are severely off topic now, and a number of different folks might be interested in our new line of thought.]]> Andrew Diehl Developers Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:13:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100827#msg-100827 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100827#msg-100827
Or am i missing something?]]> NoobMan Developers Mon, 10 Oct 2011 06:20:22 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100743#msg-100743 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100743#msg-100743
Here is how it works:

//Bookend
-----------------------------------------------
M142 P40 S0 //Turn the multiplexer off, select X1 axis
G162X //Home X1 axis

M142 p40 S255 //Turn multiplexer on, select X2 axis
G162X //Home X2 Axis.
----------------------------------------------
//Because we maintain power to the X1 and X2 axis, and only are switching the step/dir, we now know both are at X=0
//As long as you send the axis back to a known point (say x=0) before you switch extruder control, you always know where it is.


The only place you might get into trouble with is if you are using absolute extrusion distance instead of relative, because if you prime/wipe before each layer it will mess up future e-codes.]]> Andrew Diehl Developers Sun, 09 Oct 2011 15:42:22 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100681#msg-100681 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100681#msg-100681
If the 2 extruders are onto same plate, its easy. The distance between their heads is always the exact same one. So using just the start/end gcode from SF, or some small altered "extruder change" routine in hardware are both possible.

If each extruder has its own axis, then its different. One extruder gets parked for the other to work. Once it gets parked, his position is more or less "lost". So when it needs to come back and print again, there are a few lines needed to get it back to the desired position. Dont think the SF could be convinced to do that math automatically as it is now. Maybe if we use homing.gcode in a innovative way between each layer, to keep something like a "reference point". Alternatively in hardware, maybe if we calibrate head positions parked distance between each other or something like that, and use these as settings in head exchange routine, but would still need an accurate read of where the other head was, so we know what distances we have to deduct. And getting an accurate position of where the head is at any given point, in reference to a known position, that has to make things more complicated.

Adding heaters is the easiest thing to do, just a pin and a fet, so thats no issue. Older electronics had 3 fets anyways.]]> NoobMan Developers Sun, 09 Oct 2011 06:48:03 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100655#msg-100655 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100655#msg-100655
Since marlin can control pin out values from g-code, you can trigger a 4x multiplexer which switches step/dir for the x axis and extruder. By using the start/end support gcode edits in skeinforge, you can specify the parked positions for each carriage.

You would need to skip on a heated bed since it only supports 2 heaters at the moment, but it IS possible.

I'm more than willing to add cost/complexity in exchange for being able to print practically anything in whatever orientation I want.]]> Andrew Diehl Developers Sun, 09 Oct 2011 00:39:08 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100577#msg-100577 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100577#msg-100577
About the general arrangement there are a few drawbacks or critical aspects, i think maybe good reasons for which this setup is not really preferred in general:
- the distance between toolhead "tips" depends on their arrangement, and its a distance "lost" from Y at least from the area heads could work together, e.g. for 10cm dist in between on our mendel would make the "together" distance at half; depends if the head tips are inside the bars or point towards outside, there are big differences in both versions;
- lots of extra weight, even +size -> +bed, and -speed - accel, etc; Z block needs way more plastic which isnt good (sf says the 70x70 one is like 250g of plastic haha); lots of efficiency losses in many areas;]]> NoobMan Developers Sat, 08 Oct 2011 13:46:22 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100496#msg-100496 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100496#msg-100496 You might be on to something important here. Having a second X axis will be inherently more expensive than just a dual extruder head, but it would allow you to park one head while the other one extrudes, eliminating the ooze that the dualstrusion makerbots are struggling to deal with.

It also avoids all the dual extruder head patents I've found (which are good for at least another few years). Also, it would let you calibrate the extruder nozzles Z height independently, without dragging a low nozzle through the part. The Z axis could Hop to whatever height it needed while no heads were around.

Also, since the heads are separate, it wouldn't impact extruder speed. Heck, if both nozzles were perfectly leveled you could print multiple exact copies simultaneously.

NoobMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right now it looks like i will go for a little
> oversized machine, and about the x axes i will
> theoretically use 4 rods in a square pattern 7cm
> each side, in order to get a second x axis with
> its own carriage. The second axis arrangement will
> get to be symmetrical to the other one, mirrored
> both ways. This way the rods can be vertical, and
> also could be used in a horizontal (classical)
> arrangement.
>
> The second axis could be used for experimental
> toolheads and such, to be toyed with, without
> having to interfere with first toolhead. It could
> let ppls have more fun with the printer.
>
> The horizontal distance between 8mm rods on my
> mendel is 50, but i increased for the square
> config at 70 horizontally aswell as vertically.
> Not sure of it yet, because at 70 the rods are
> pretty far away from Z drive and it means lots of
> extra plastic so it might not be so good, maybe i
> will revert to a smaller distance even, but dont
> know it yet.
>
> About t5 belts, probably will have 10mm. And
> certainly some mod like the "doubler accuracy
> mod", or at least have the flexibility to be
> arranged like so.
>
> This is what i came up with, so i hope its
> allright so far.
>
> Any feedback on the general picture of what i
> intend to do?]]> Andrew Diehl Developers Fri, 07 Oct 2011 22:53:30 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100206#msg-100206 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100206#msg-100206 bryanandaimee Developers Wed, 05 Oct 2011 21:33:19 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100190#msg-100190 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100190#msg-100190
The second axis could be used for experimental toolheads and such, to be toyed with, without having to interfere with first toolhead. It could let ppls have more fun with the printer.

The horizontal distance between 8mm rods on my mendel is 50, but i increased for the square config at 70 horizontally aswell as vertically. Not sure of it yet, because at 70 the rods are pretty far away from Z drive and it means lots of extra plastic so it might not be so good, maybe i will revert to a smaller distance even, but dont know it yet.

About t5 belts, probably will have 10mm. And certainly some mod like the "doubler accuracy mod", or at least have the flexibility to be arranged like so.

This is what i came up with, so i hope its allright so far.

Any feedback on the general picture of what i intend to do?]]> NoobMan Developers Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:22:57 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100145#msg-100145 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100145#msg-100145 For the time being I made a page and will update it there - will see how it goes.]]> NoobMan Developers Wed, 05 Oct 2011 12:30:27 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100139#msg-100139 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100139#msg-100139
Contest Page]]> bryanandaimee Developers Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:02:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100138#msg-100138 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100138#msg-100138 bryanandaimee Developers Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:52:06 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100130#msg-100130 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?2,95828,100130#msg-100130 NoobMan Developers Wed, 05 Oct 2011 09:19:23 -0400