May the Foam be with you.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

JamesK — Tue, 22 Nov 2016 07:15:14 -0500

There's a strange coincidence - I just got some wood filament and did my first test prints with it last night. Very pleased so far, I just used my normal pla settings and it seemed to work very well. The only thing that looks like it needs some tuning is that bridges and overhangs are rather saggy. The prints can be shaped with a file or sand-paper, and an initial test suggests it might even take a stain, although I'm not sure how good an idea that is. The stuff looks like mdf after all, and who stains mdf? :)

I just got a couple more rolls of petg too. I've only tried the natural before and found it quite finicky to print with. But it is strong so I thought I might give some opaque colours a try and see how they go. I'm thinking of using it as an alternative to nylon for structural parts. Nylon's nice but I'm always fighting the warp which is pretty aggressive, and print speeds are slow.

I'm also working on a new printer to increase my build volume - I have too many ideas that are made difficult by the current printer size. It won't be anywhere as big as yours, but will have 650mm in the X axis which should give me a lot more options to work with. I've been experimenting with some bigger nozzles in anticipation. Love the print strength, but the loss of detail is challenging. Always so many trade-offs with fdm.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Mon, 21 Nov 2016 23:21:19 -0500

Hi James, sorry for the late reply, it is indeed humbling to have all that space available to throw large parts at it.
Been toying with the idea to build an electric car for my son so he can drive it, but I'm aware it's gonna take a long time to print everything.
I am currently printing at 0.6mm layer height, I'm already addicted to it, so that would cut down on the printing time.
As for wood filament, you should try it, if you haven't already. Works like PLA, temperature wise.
Regarding PLA, I'm moving away from it after having tried PETG a few days back, for the first time.
Looking forward to cut me teeth into exotic filaments (conductive, etc) but they are hard to come by, unless one buys online, which I'm not sure it's very wise if you care about the quality of the filament.
Best regards.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

JamesK — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 13:12:08 -0400

I gotta get me some of that wood filament, it looks really useful. The print volume you have available to you is just stunning :)

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 17:14:36 -0400

wood lay filament from mg chemicals
simplify 3d slicer, printed from sd card
s3d fast printing settings:
205 C temp extruder
0.3 layer height
0.8 layer width
50% speed
estimated time: 22 hours

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 15:55:12 -0400

I just got 2 rolls of ABS by mistake, was tempted to use it, but might need a different hotend, and chopping board, though also thinking of a hedgehog mount for the foam.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

deaconfrost — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 14:18:25 -0400

yea I think he's away off with the fairies :D

I'm just gonna try out plastic primer spray on the 500 x 500 aluminium sheet or glass, I think that should do me, I extended the bed and I'm not even going to ask that mad man for a price, I get the plate checked out I'm betting its polyethylene

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Tue, 12 Jul 2016 11:38:36 -0400

Quote
deaconfrost

Quote
val c.

Quote
deaconfrost
check this out

ABS no heat bed

I broke it trying to take it off, but I didn't actually give it time after print was finished and its hollow with only 0.8mm bottom which wouldn't help either

what kind of plastic is that?

I'm not sure I couldn't get an answer as I need a 500mm x 500mm and the shop looking for stupid money for it, 180 euro for 400mm x 400mm, heres where I got it

build plate

I'll be using plastic primer on the large printer and in the mean time I will send the plate off to find out what it is.

here's another print of abs 60% infill

ABS no heat bed

I also tested PETG which works really well. the PLA print quality are super on this plate

wow, 180 euros for a 400x400?
wonder what my bed would cost, at 1332x1276

Re: May the Foam be with you.

deaconfrost — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 20:23:04 -0400

Quote
val c.

Quote
deaconfrost
check this out

ABS no heat bed

I broke it trying to take it off, but I didn't actually give it time after print was finished and its hollow with only 0.8mm bottom which wouldn't help either

what kind of plastic is that?

I'm not sure I couldn't get an answer as I need a 500mm x 500mm and the shop looking for stupid money for it, 180 euro for 400mm x 400mm, heres where I got it

build plate

I'll be using plastic primer on the large printer and in the mean time I will send the plate off to find out what it is.

here's another print of abs 60% infill

ABS no heat bed

I also tested PETG which works really well. the PLA print quality are super on this plate

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 12:44:21 -0400

Quote
the_digital_dentist
Yes, you peel the foil/paper off. Peeling it won't do enough damage to the surface to affect your prints. If the surface does get damaged deeply for any reason, just sand it sort of smooth with coarse sandpaper and print on it.

Yes, you still need a warm enclosure to print ABS without delaminating.

I haven't tried flexible filament on it, but it's a good idea. I have some TPU filament- I'll try this weekend. I'd bet that it works fine, but there's no beating a test to know for sure.

i don't see why it wouldn't work.
as you explained earlier, the whole thing rests on a thermo chemical reaction between the molten plastic and the foam.
please keep us posted.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 12:41:45 -0400

Quote
MechaBits
No, I get they are not the same I dont remember saying they where, (i did manage to get the layers very flat and wanted to protect underneath surface/ if I went too low)
I get it doesn't need leveling, I get the fact you bury your print in it and your first layer is level, I just tried burying it in my masking tape,
it works, though perhaps not as good as foam, how much is this stuff?(the pictures above make the sheet/printer look big)
I dont yet get how you print parts that remove from a raft with a nice finnish, or how to not have the part warp at the air gap
and remove itself from the raft...not got that far but foam is on the list of things to try at some point when I figure which of my parts its suited to.

please see my previous post.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 12:27:16 -0400

pla and pva support printed together with dual extruder.
if one is concerned with the quality of the part's bottom side, one can always use a raft.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Mon, 11 Jul 2016 12:01:57 -0400

Quote
deaconfrost
check this out

ABS no heat bed

I broke it trying to take it off, but I didn't actually give it time after print was finished and its hollow with only 0.8mm bottom which wouldn't help either

what kind of plastic is that?

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Sat, 25 Jun 2016 01:57:30 -0400

So I had a brainwave that will make the CoreXY i'm building a little easier to build,
I have 1x3030 for the back of the moving bed, which is will be where the motion is applied too,
so rather than go triple screws & stuff, I have this other thinner U shaped profile(3 sides of a rectangle U)
If I use 3 pieces of that, I can make a square slot for a sheet off foam to slide right into.
should mean i can have a cantilevered bed without too much trouble.... the penny is sinking.
lets hope they dont slap huge import tariffs on this stuff here in the UK, or it'll be back to the drawing board.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

the_digital_dentist — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 23:08:42 -0400

Yes, you peel the foil/paper off. Peeling it won't do enough damage to the surface to affect your prints. If the surface does get damaged deeply for any reason, just sand it sort of smooth with coarse sandpaper and print on it.

Yes, you still need a warm enclosure to print ABS without delaminating.

I haven't tried flexible filament on it, but it's a good idea. I have some TPU filament- I'll try this weekend. I'd bet that it works fine, but there's no beating a test to know for sure.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:34:14 -0400

Yeah it's a beast...
So the foam is like kingspan, you take the foil off then(sometimes that could ruin the foam),
sure beats laying out perfect tape on a bed that size, with a 25mm wide roll,
can you do flexi materials on it? No heated bed for ABS sounds like a winner, though still need enclosure?

Re: May the Foam be with you.

the_digital_dentist — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 20:14:01 -0400

The OP's printer is very large.

[www.homedepot.com]

32 sqft for $15

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:56:51 -0400

No, I get they are not the same I dont remember saying they where, (i did manage to get the layers very flat and wanted to protect underneath surface/ if I went too low)
I get it doesn't need leveling, I get the fact you bury your print in it and your first layer is level, I just tried burying it in my masking tape,
it works, though perhaps not as good as foam, how much is this stuff?(the pictures above make the sheet/printer look big)
I dont yet get how you print parts that remove from a raft with a nice finnish, or how to not have the part warp at the air gap
and remove itself from the raft...not got that far but foam is on the list of things to try at some point when I figure which of my parts its suited to.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

the_digital_dentist — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:34:17 -0400

Tape, even in multiple layers, isn't the equivalent of foam.

You don't print on the surface of the foam, you bury the nozzle into the foam. There's no need to level the surface- the nozzle makes it's own level surface. It doesn't matter if the material you're printing normally prints on a heated surface. It will stick to the unheated foam because the molten plastic gets injected into voids in the foam (voids that don't exist in tape). That's the whole point of using the foam- you completely eliminate the need for heaters, power supplies, SSRs, and bed leveling. Printing on a raft eliminates the foam sticking to the bottom surface of the print.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 19:16:34 -0400

A kingspan type solid foam? or one with bigger balls :)

When I asked why foam, I meant for more than one reason, flat print yeah, and maybe a little wiggle room for an uneven bed,
and there seems to be plenty of wiggle room because no matter if first layer is 2.4 or 2.8 it still prints,
but i really havent got to the point of printing super critical parts,
tall or large heavy infill parts where warping becomes more of an issue
the print head can find its own level with foam if things are out on the bed(as it eventually does on warped parts),
but as I dont have the foam to hand I experimented with some extra layers of tape...while waiting for my wider tape to arrive
(50mm should hopefully stay flatter for longer, bearing in mind i'm not changing it after every print)
multiple layers is just me being over cautious, it was printing fine on one layer, and rather than have to clean off plate I just added some more, but i'd rather be printing direct to the aluminium, or kapton (but for pla maybe overkill)
I dont disagree with foam, and it was on the list of things to try at one stage(if I cant get by with tape like everyone else),
though I had forgotten it was PIR that was advised.

Still it looks like a bit of a pain to remove it, the example above looked more like polystyrene to me, white on white is better than white on black, but the surface finish i'd like is leaning more to the alu plate/ or glass,
how do you secure it to the bed, with tape? is it good for all materials/temps? maybe not for stuff that needs heated bed,
but today I got some 50mm wide tape rather than the thin stuff I had so should be a little easier to lay down, when I'm done with this roll, i'll try some foam I can probably live with the surface finish for some stuff, but perhaps the right chopping board
could give a better finish, but I had to nursemaid a 20 hour print the other day, this 3D printing sure does take it out of you,
no wonder everyone's chasing coreXY & higher speeds.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

deaconfrost — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:45:00 -0400

[attachment 80306 _20160624_214303.JPG]
May the chopping board be with you lol it worked

I just need to sand the whole thing down and evenly flat then I can try bigger parts

Re: May the Foam be with you.

deaconfrost — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:02:40 -0400

I went out and bought a chopping board, and currently print PLA on it cold :) it needs to be a smooth surface, not the rough ones

the chopping board cost 5.99 in euro so about 8 dollars??

I've no idea what polymer it is, as I couldn't find and info about it but I don't think its polyethylene

Re: May the Foam be with you.

sigxcpu — Fri, 24 Jun 2016 15:43:22 -0400

If you want a build plate that does wonders, you can try Polycarbonate (clear). Like the expensive one you've got, I didn't manage to pull of parts without breaking. Perfect adhesion! You use your part with the printbed :)

Re: May the Foam be with you.

deaconfrost — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:54:47 -0400

I got it from here

but I think I will return it for a refund, because it seems to me it is just high density polyethylene chopping board, in that case I can buy them far cheaper and feel like I been scam

Re: May the Foam be with you.

the_digital_dentist — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 19:20:10 -0400

Quote
MechaBits
Why Use Foam, Why use more than one layer of tape(because I have tape not foam), because I'm a beginner after good adhesion(no heatbed), 1 layer was ok, but I added a few more to give me a little wiggle room, without eh cusioning I might not get anything coming out the nozzle, I have not yet mastered the correct way to start things off with the required Z heights offset code, homing, as I have no end stops or sensors working yet, 0.2 could be too high, 0.1 might be better for me, so I just bring head low to the tape and start the print, if it was too low I would have nothing coming out, sometimes it is a little thin, so I can make a few parts to add to the machine, as time goes by i'll get round to doing other things to improve the start procedure. Better Bed(Mic6), I'm still using acrylic to support the heat plate one of the first parts I had made which will be retired when I get some access to better tools.

I dont have layer width settings and have read conflicting info on first layer height, if I do .28 for layers, I tried .32 for first layer, but also read it should be lower, I have links to both trains of thought, one comes from hints in Matter Control "it is often desirable to print a taller first layer for good adhesion" but in another guide it says the opposite.

but it is an early days experiment, and the current tape is not sticky enough for all parts, and can still lift, its not even blue but normal masking tape. Maybe it's because of the cushioning...

I'm not averse to trying some foam as long as it has a very fine structure, like that flower arranging stuff, but that might be just a little too crumbly.

The foam being used was specifically chosen for high temperature resistance. PIR does not decompose or melt at extruder temperatures. Floral foam will melt (and probably release toxic fumes) as soon as the hot nozzle gets close to it. The foam isn't acting as a "cushion". The extruder injects molten plastic into open cells in the PIR foam (90% closed cell) which then hardens forming a mechanical bond between the print and the foam.

If you want prints to stick you need a flat, level surface for starters. I don't know if you can get that piling tape on top of tape. You shouldn't need cushioning because the nozzle should not touch the print surface. The layer thicknesses should be <=80% of nozzle diameter. Line widths should be 105%-170% of nozzle diameter (absolutely never smaller than the nozzle diameter). The idea is to get a squished flat layer so it has a lot of contact with the bed or the layer below. Solid fill lines should overlap a little (typically 15%) so there are no gaps between lines. Slic3r and Cura let you control all those settings. I use uniform thickness from first layer to last. There is no need to print the first layer extra thick, but print it slowly - 20-30 mm/sec. You can speed up the rest of the print.

Quote
deaconfrost
check this out
ABS no heat bed
I broke it trying to take it off, but I didn't actually give it time after print was finished and its hollow with only 0.8mm bottom which wouldn't help either

Nice, but since there's no mention of the bed material on either the youtube page or in your post, sort of useless.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

deaconfrost — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:41:21 -0400

check this out

ABS no heat bed

I broke it trying to take it off, but I didn't actually give it time after print was finished and its hollow with only 0.8mm bottom which wouldn't help either

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 15:39:14 -0400

foam cells are supposed to crumble under the combined effect of the nozzle compressing it, and said nozzle, being heated, passing that heat onto the foam and thus helping with the crumbling.
this is the whole idea when printing on foam: have the tip of the nozzle skim the foam surface, and the first layer will literally be embedded into it, ensuring a strong bond.
as for the foam structure, it is what it is, and as long as it works for me, it's all fine.
two immediate advantages stand out: no more heated bed (hardware, headaches, waiting time, hydro bill) and no warping whatsoever.
not one of the models I printed came off or warped during printing.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Wed, 22 Jun 2016 01:15:14 -0400

Why Use Foam, Why use more than one layer of tape(because I have tape not foam), because I'm a beginner after good adhesion(no heatbed), 1 layer was ok, but I added a few more to give me a little wiggle room, without eh cusioning I might not get anything coming out the nozzle, I have not yet mastered the correct way to start things off with the required Z heights offset code, homing, as I have no end stops or sensors working yet, 0.2 could be too high, 0.1 might be better for me, so I just bring head low to the tape and start the print, if it was too low I would have nothing coming out, sometimes it is a little thin, so I can make a few parts to add to the machine, as time goes by i'll get round to doing other things to improve the start procedure. Better Bed(Mic6), I'm still using acrylic to support the heat plate one of the first parts I had made which will be retired when I get some access to better tools.

I dont have layer width settings and have read conflicting info on first layer height, if I do .28 for layers, I tried .32 for first layer, but also read it should be lower, I have links to both trains of thought, one comes from hints in Matter Control "it is often desirable to print a taller first layer for good adhesion" but in another guide it says the opposite.

but it is an early days experiment, and the current tape is not sticky enough for all parts, and can still lift, its not even blue but normal masking tape. Maybe it's because of the cushioning...

I'm not averse to trying some foam as long as it has a very fine structure, like that flower arranging stuff, but that might be just a little too crumbly.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

the_digital_dentist — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 09:02:28 -0400

Why would you want "cushioning"?

Re: May the Foam be with you.

MechaBits — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 03:58:15 -0400

I have just added a few layers of masking tape, so there is a little cushioning, the surface finish isnt what i want but better than foam.

Re: May the Foam be with you.

val c. — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:36:05 -0400

some fresh pics of a freshly printed toy rocket for my son.
the part was printed on foam.