Stabilizing Ormerod 2 Hello, my (self-made) Ormerod 2 (and also the MK1) drives me crazy regarding the printing speed. I was able to get a more stable print with some changes, but the printer(s) especially suffers on the twisted rod problem. The maximum speed I can achieve with very less artefacts is about 70mm/s. To compare: A good Prusa I3 can achieve about 120-150mm/s. So I am really considering to stabilize my printer(s) more. I would like to keep as much as possible, but the y-axis will be redesigned completely getting a frame using aluminium profiles (additionally 20x20). The z-axis will get a linear guide system at the front to hopefully reduce the sagging (this will need the aluminum x-arm). The will be another profile at the top so the Ormerod will look a little bit like an I3. The bearings will be exchanged to linear guide system. The threaded rod will be probably exchanged with some sort of an ACME rod, but I try to keep the idea of the gears so no new motor will be needed. Regarding the x-axis I have no concrete idea yet how to change it, but the x-carriage wil be compatible with the old one so you can keep your nozzle-holder. What do you think about this? Is there any interest in such kind of improvement? Best regards, Sven https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,706224#msg-706224 Fri, 13 Mar 2026 07:10:36 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739771#msg-739771 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739771#msg-739771 [forums.reprap.org]]]> achaz Ormerod Tue, 17 Jan 2017 16:06:59 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739699#msg-739699 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739699#msg-739699
Quote
0x0000
How large is the hole? Is it threaded or just drilled straight through?

..and notice Joar107's direct drive mod was with the original 5mm threaded rod that clears the x-axis smooth rod by a hair, so if you plan to use a bigger diameter ball screw you will have to move the stepper a bit or use gears

Here's another take, Melmie's mod:

[attachment 89077 alux-plate.png]
[attachment 89078 motorentr10x2.png]
[attachment 89079 tr10x2-1.png]

[forums.reprap.org]

..and epninety:

[attachment 89080 epninety.jpg]

[forums.reprap.org]

..and zeb00:

[attachment 89081 zeb00.jpg]

[forums.reprap.org]

Erik]]> ormerod168 Ormerod Tue, 17 Jan 2017 12:30:36 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739641#msg-739641 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739641#msg-739641
Quote
0x0000
..How large is the hole? Is it threaded or just drilled straight through?

6,50mm, straight through - finally found the post with the files Joar107 shared:

[forums.reprap.org]

Erik]]> ormerod168 Ormerod Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:55:24 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739545#msg-739545 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739545#msg-739545 0x0000 Ormerod Tue, 17 Jan 2017 04:07:45 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739298#msg-739298 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739298#msg-739298
Quote
0x0000
..For example, if I left a patch of metal at the end of the x-rib, I could also cut holes for the lead screw and any mounts for the bearing.......

The first version of Dave's alu - x-arm was prepared for such a lead screw, see 2. picture from his web site (my ormerod1 as it looked some time ago), the hole is positioned directly over and in-line with the stepper axle

[ddmetalproducts.co.uk]

[attachment 89002 alu-x-arm.JPG]

...and IFAIR the dfx file is downstream in this string:

[forums.reprap.org]

Erik]]> ormerod168 Ormerod Mon, 16 Jan 2017 08:38:16 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739226#msg-739226 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,739226#msg-739226
What modifications need to be done to the printer to accept an ACME or ball screw? Naturally the captured M5 nut at the tip of the z-nut-trap isn't going to cut the mustard if the drive screw is larger. Does anybody have a modified STL they could share? One other idea I had was to slightly enlarge the end of the laser-cut x-rib where the x-axis meets the z. I can't make something from nothing but since my parts are HDPE, I need to get them re-cut anyway. For example, if I left a patch of metal at the end of the x-rib, I could also cut holes for the lead screw and any mounts for the bearing. This would eliminate the existing captive nut, and possibly even the entire z-nut-trap part. What are the downsides to this approach?

Apologies for the crude illustration, I'll put some more effort into Inkscape later!

[attachment 88992 x-rib-mod.png]]]> 0x0000 Ormerod Mon, 16 Jan 2017 03:41:12 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709375#msg-709375 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709375#msg-709375 They are probably very calm, but I am still unsure what is causing my ghosting.
I need to fix my OM1, since my OM2 is also broken, but it can print with some limitations, but I have no idea if these limitations may have influence on the ghosting. For some reasons the y-axis is not operating smoothly if moved by hand, Maybe this is caused by the GT2 belt as I use a 16 teeth pulley and the belt may touch some parts, but I need to check, where the problem is related. I also use another type of bearings and maybe this is causing the problem, but I can check this as soon as the OM1 works again.]]> Treito Ormerod Fri, 23 Sep 2016 06:10:05 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709121#msg-709121 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709121#msg-709121
They have wipers on each end, I fitted dual wipers just to make sure;)

The coolant is generally oil based even the water soluble ones so its never just plain water.]]> Davek0974 Ormerod Thu, 22 Sep 2016 02:33:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709070#msg-709070 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709070#msg-709070
Quote
Davek0974
I have a feeling that friction will kill your design I'm afraid - personally i would not go that way. There are no rotating elements in either of those parts - just relies on slip of the nylon used.

Stuff like this will last a lifetime...

HiWin Rails

Ball Screws

Clearly the cost will higher and be an issue probably but the results would be measurable i think, the two links are just examples of course but HiWin is regarded highly.


A step down from HiWin is round supported rods...

Round supported rods

Cheaper and will probably be ok in this use - not good for high stress like milling machines.

Loads of ideas.....
:)

Unrelated question to Dave:

Do you know will these type of rails(and ballscrew) be sensitive to water? Wana know in case i will use flood cooling on my milling machine.]]> Darathy Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 17:04:06 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709025#msg-709025 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709025#msg-709025 Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:13:43 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709024#msg-709024 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709024#msg-709024 Davek0974 Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:11:25 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709020#msg-709020 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709020#msg-709020 Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:04:53 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709019#msg-709019 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709019#msg-709019
Stuff like this will last a lifetime...

HiWin Rails

Ball Screws

Clearly the cost will higher and be an issue probably but the results would be measurable i think, the two links are just examples of course but HiWin is regarded highly.


A step down from HiWin is round supported rods...

Round supported rods

Cheaper and will probably be ok in this use - not good for high stress like milling machines.

Loads of ideas.....
:)]]> Davek0974 Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 14:00:29 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709015#msg-709015 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709015#msg-709015 [www.igus.eu]

And these ones:
[www.igus.eu]]]> Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:50:00 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709011#msg-709011 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709011#msg-709011 Davek0974 Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:34:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709005#msg-709005 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,709005#msg-709005 www.ebay.com]

for my CNC Mill.]]> Darathy Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 13:19:52 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708985#msg-708985 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708985#msg-708985 Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:21:59 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708974#msg-708974 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708974#msg-708974
The mini-mill would probably do it, never tried.

The secret is to design for the intended use, the mini-mill is built from 15 and 20mm solid slabs of aluminium, it's very heavy but its built for milling, there are no opposing forces in 3d printing, pretty much like the plasma cutter - the head on that is much lighter and therefore easier to move faster.

If going linear rails like HiWin etc, look into going with zero backlash ball-screws as well but this is where the money starts building up, also bigger drives and motors, then throw in a full ethernet motion controller with good acceleration curves etc.........


:)]]> Davek0974 Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 10:37:16 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708970#msg-708970 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708970#msg-708970
I got reports that machines were running at 6000 mm/min and even more (up to 9000 mm/min, Prusa I3) that is why I decided to build a CoreXY where the main motion is done by the head. I would like to reach a speed of 7500 mm/min maximum. I also decided to use linear sliding rails.
I have no clues yet how a bowden Extruder compares to a direct driven Extruder with the same printer, but there are some clues that there is still some sort of sagging even with the aluminium X-arm. What I can tell is that the ghosting was decreased as I switched to the aluminium x-arm so that is why I am considering to exchange the sliding rods to linear sliding rails.

I don't want to do a general fault when designing and building my printer so I would be upset as I would not have any improvements compared to the Ormerod except for the building volume and the higher costs of my design. :D]]> Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 10:17:51 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708949#msg-708949 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708949#msg-708949
I read a lot of comments about low mass at the head, not moving the printed part etc....

I have built three CNC machines and just finished converting a large mill to CNC and was wondering what sort of speed and acceleration we are talking here???

If anyones interested, I will be selling the last full build i did as it will be replaced by the bigger machine. I designed it for cutting metal, wood, plastic etc, and the Z axis carries a weight of around 4kg when running - the Z moves in all directions as its a fixed bed like a 3d printer, this was one thought as well when building it - i even tested the g-code and that worked ok

Now, i'm not trying to sell my stuff, honestly - it would be a very expensive printer as it will likely go for around £3k BUT what i am saying is - mass reduction is not needed IF the machine is built to handle it properly - you could easily mount the filament spool on the head as well and not notice it - no bowden etc.

How to do this?

You need a strong frame, linear rails and carriages, not round rods, ball-screws not belts and decent motors - Nema23 at 3-4Nm size not Nema17's and so-on.

Its not hard to do but I really feel the limit is reached and probably exceeded now on light-weight style builds like the Ormerod etc .

Just for info the little machine runs at 5000mm/min on X&Y at an acceleration of 500mm/s/s - it can do more but thats where i have it set.

Food for thought :)]]> Davek0974 Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:59:37 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708945#msg-708945 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708945#msg-708945 dc42 Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:48:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708938#msg-708938 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708938#msg-708938 Besides that I would guess that the moved mass of the printer table is more than a setup with two Extruders as long as you use a small motor. I wanted to use 48mm depth motors for my Extruders, but if I have to use a direct drive system I really should rethink this.
The only way to be sure would be to repeat the test setup with a direct driven Extruder on one of my Ormerods.
It is hard to say which conclusion I could get with the last print.]]> Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:28:09 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708935#msg-708935 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708935#msg-708935 ooznest.co.uk]) with a substantial gantry over the XY table being driven in Z.

Dave]]> dmould Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:19:52 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708890#msg-708890 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708890#msg-708890
The results may affect my new design. My first thought was to reduce the moved mass as much as possible, but if the Bowden style Extruder limits the printing speed that much I would have to use direct drive Extruders.]]> Treito Ormerod Wed, 21 Sep 2016 03:55:33 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708673#msg-708673 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708673#msg-708673
Whatever the case, if the amount of ghosting changes significantly either way with layer height, I cannot see that it could be caused by issues in the XY movements, which will surely have the same errors whatever the layer height. The only change in the behaviour of the printer between thin & thick layer height (all else being equal) is the extrusion speed, so I still believe it is an extrusion related issue.

Dave]]> dmould Ormerod Tue, 20 Sep 2016 08:12:44 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708563#msg-708563 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708563#msg-708563 Treito Ormerod Mon, 19 Sep 2016 18:20:24 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708431#msg-708431 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708431#msg-708431 The second print with 45mm/s suffers from ghosting. It doesn't matter because it's a part for the printer. I will print the bracket this evening using a layer height of only 0.1 mm instead of 0.22 mm. Do you really think that the ghosting is caused by the Bowden style Extruder? If so I would have to rethink my CoreXY printer.]]> Treito Ormerod Mon, 19 Sep 2016 09:51:18 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708031#msg-708031 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,708031#msg-708031
Back to The OM2: At the moment both of my printers needs a repair. The MK1 needs new bearings for the y-direction (at least one is broken and the axis tends to block). The MK2 has a melted bed support (the screws transferred heat so even BS melted). This will be replaced with a wooden one.
If I have one printer back to live I will test different layer thickness to see if the ghosting is caused by the bowden extruder. Nevertheless the problem with the twisted rods is still the same.]]> Treito Ormerod Sat, 17 Sep 2016 10:40:16 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,706922#msg-706922 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,706922#msg-706922
Quote
Treito
I have no issues with the spring-loaded Extruder. It is not skipping, but I get symptoms of an unstable frame like the ghost shadows at old analogue antenna tv..

You may find that that is in fact an extruder artefact rather than XY table. Not only the print bed, but also the extruder must slow down at each corner, and this changes the pressure in the Bowden tube. The change can cause "ringing" and the plastic is extruded in pulses (like a weight on the end od a spring bobs up and down when moved). This causes periodic changes in the width of the extrusion, resulting in the ghost marks. If the marks decrease with thinner layer heights (with print speeds kept the same), it is almost certainly Bowden noise rather than XY noise, because the XY movement does not change with layer thickness while the extruder pressure does.

Dave]]> dmould Ormerod Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:42:01 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,706919#msg-706919 Re: Stabilizing Ormerod 2 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?340,706224,706919#msg-706919
Quote
Treito

... I am also designing a new CoreXY-Printer. ... The main difference between us is that I want to keep the moved mass as low as possible so I will use two bowden Extruders.

Does that mean that you will be using a fixed bed and moving the hotend(s) with your CoreXY mechanism?

The Bowden effect is causing the most issues in my prints, as it is impossible to get the extrusion rate correct at all places of the print, so for me a direct extruder was one of the main features I wanted to incorporate. Added to which filament cooling is needed to print good quality overhangs and bridges in ABS, but adding cooling hardware adds to the mass of the hotend - so I want something that I can add as much mass around the hotend as I like - cooling, multiple nozzles etc. So in my case I will move the bed and keep the extruders stationary (except in Z) so mass does not matter. It will also allow me to change the hotend configuration pretty easily. I could have various easily changeable gantries containing extruders, routers, PC board drills, lasers, pen holders etc. for a multi-purpose device, though in that case I'll also need to get involved in writing a multi-purpose controller firmware.

I have the outline of a design in mind, but will start by building the bed first, then the extruder mount (with Z axis), then the XY table and lastly a heated chamber. This will allow the design to evolve while building, and also means that I can pretend not to notice the cost as I'll be buying the bits in small chunks spaced over a long time period! (It will probably end up costing more than a professional ready-made printer, but that's not the point).

I've decided to make the bed from 5mm or 6mm machined aluminium plate, and use the old-fashioned method of bolting on multiple high-power resistors underneath for heating. Probably 16 10 ohm resistors in series, giving me a 360 watt mains heater (which saves the need for a high power 12V PSU but should give very fast heating). The plate will be thermally isolated from, and have three mounting points to the bed frame, one fixed height and two with spring-loaded adjustment screws to get it level. I'll cover in "PrintBite" - this is so far proving quite satisfactory for ABS printing, with good adhesion for printing without any coating, but the parts become completely loose as the plate cools below 70 deg, so I don't need to move the plate at all to remove the parts, just wipe with acetone every now & again. The bed will also be easy to remove from the bed frame so that I can later fit different beds more suited to routing, PCB drilling or laser cutting.

So while at one time I had been planning on beefing up my Ormerod as Cua193 has done, I've now decided that the change to an 8mm Z leadscrew that I finalized over the weekend is the last modification I plan for the Ormerod. It will be in use for many more months because the new build will be a leisurely and evolving affair with no doubt many empirical changes, and I can also use it to print parts for my new printer and probably keep as a standby, but my Ormerod is otherwise scheduled for retirement having served me very well over the years. It was designed as an entry-level printer suitable for building by relatively inexperienced people, and I think it has fulfilled that design objective very well. It was never meant to be mechanically rock-steady - the idea was to have the controller firmware compensate for mechanical inaccuracies rather than the builder/owner making precise adjustments.

Dave]]> dmould Ormerod Mon, 12 Sep 2016 10:26:36 -0400