Greg's SmartRap Build

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

smartfriendz — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 03:43:32 -0400

Hi greg, sorry i didn't remember you had an old version.With the integrated extruder without screw, if it doesn't work, it won't work. I will make you a new set if you wnat. It's not normal this way, it should have work long time ago already .

I can't remember if you have fishing lines or rack&pinions ?

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:24:27 -0400

On the last of the extrusion tests I was shot this video (50mm extrusion) where you can see the bearing slipping .... not much but it does slip.
The extruded filament appears very thin as well .... other videos make it look thicker .....

[youtu.be]

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:12:27 -0400

Hi Serge,
That's a kind offer .... I think I need to e-build the RepRap completely so will wait for the next design to come out.

Quick update on progress follows where I performed the following activities after re-reading this blog:

1. Turn the printer round for working on - required a longer USB cable that I took off a working HP paper printer. Result: The SmartRap would sent temperature and not respond to any manual movement commands. Went back to the short USB cable supplied with kit and all working. Weird - has anyone else seen this?

2. Checked the free movement of the bowden support against the Z stop. Not too bad but wanted to try a washer so dismounted and placed small washed between bowden support and hot end support. Result: Appeared slightly more rigid :) Bowden cables appears slightly too short on full x extension but fine to start with, Full x and z could be a problem.

3. An earlier note in this thread was to check for Z wobble -I had not done this since changing the Z coupler to the latest design. Result: Z motor made a lot of noise and vibration and the motor shaft no longer revolves - Z motor appears to be dead. :( agghhhhhhhhhh and not even one print yet!!!!!! excuse the frustration....

4. Tried pushng the filament through by hand with the motors disabled. Result yes it is stiff but filament does come out in a thin thread.

5. Tried manual extrusion (200mm/sec) using the the motors: first 5mm , then10mm 20mm, 30mm and 50mm.
Result: filament comes out but there are occasional delays and occasional moments when the idler bearing does not rotate.
Filament usually has a slight delay (2-3 secs) before coming out as seen at the end of the video.

6. Next test for zeroing z offset using MadMike, Mr Millsy and Mr Reg Pye's procedures could not be performed due to dead z motor.

7. Tidied up End G Code for better cooling but did not re-wire the fan - this is required but I'm focusing my efforts on getting it to print for now - seeing this as a finishing task at present.

End of tests.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

smartfriendz — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:12:28 -0400

Hi greg,

I can for waiting print you a new extruder parts, it's fast and easy to send.

For the redesign, it will take a few days more i'm affraid. I'm fighting with modelling a good support ( we need a little breakable support to attach the back of the body to the main plate_base to make it more solid.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 05:54:40 -0400

Thanks BackEMF i'll have another look at that today... I did check it out before but got confused with so many wires... Let me re-read the previous post at the start of the thread...

Hi Serg, running out of ideas to get it to extrude correctly, I think I need to get to get re-printed the extruder parts... Do you recommend me waiting for the re-design or go with the version 4.9.2??

Thanks

greg

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

smartfriendz — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 04:18:06 -0400

sorry for the extruder zackary.. it's still too fragile. I'm redesigning actually to make it more solid. the idler will have two parts so it doesn't bend and the body will have something to prevent it to bend too . Sometimes it works well but after hours printing this model always bend under force + heat.

It's the weak point and that for long time..anoying :(

you're so right backemf, I realised too late i've used the head fan on the cooling system. so it's always complicated to have it run when we want. If you jsut use repetier or cura as is..it will run only "sometimes" .

best is to plug it on power and uncheck all software fan control. the software is for the part cooling fan .

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

BackEMF — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:36:30 -0400

Yessss, it's best to connect the hotend cooling fan straight to the Powerline and use the variable fan output to control the fan that blows on the printed object.

It's not just best, it's the way it was meant to be.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 17:54:46 -0400

Hi Guys,
i spent another 5 or 6 hours on the printer last Sunday.
I started about 15 or 20 prints just to try and understand what's happening with all sorts of z off sets.

the good news: I have finally understand how to get the start code in Repetier for the G28 and G29 codes and ensuring the fan is on ALL the time. Without manually editimg the G code .... The bad news is that the head seems to arbitrarily decide to dig into the bed or hover 5 mm above the bed and the prints are rubbish. I cancelled all bar one.

I also removed the extruder bearing again and wrapped. 3 total turns of masking tape around the bearing as it appeared to be slipping.
If I measure how much PLA comes out the other side of the extruder motor it,a about 80 % of what I manually request in Repetier ie ask it to extruder 100mm and 85mm is pushed out via the motor. Will measure at the bed this weekend.
The bearing no longer slips constantly but the printing is still rubish.

The only extruder fix i can see is the 4.9.2 design - i shall look to see on github if there is an 8mm rod version.

MrMilley I tried pushing the hot end and it moved very very little .... Less than 1_2mm if pushed hard and this onlY happens when it digs in to the bed.
If I need to re-print I'm thinking of a version upgrade and or change of model.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 01:44:11 -0400

Mr Milsey and Mike fiatx just the advice I needed...thank you!!
I shall try and get the extruding fixed and then give your suggestions a go at the weekend.....

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

mikefiatx19 — Mon, 13 Oct 2014 17:47:24 -0400

Hi,
With regard to the head moving I had a similar thing. I had to perfect the balance of tightning the bolt that holds the moving arm so that it's loose enough to allow the arm to move, click the switch and then drop back down. But not so loose that it wobbles when its printing. It's a balancing act that you will get if you try a bit. In the end i used a nyloc bolt with the nylon ring inside to lock it in place.
Re your probe points, watch how the nozzle moves when you start a print, does it look like it's leaving the plane of the bed by 6 mm?
Re the g29, you lost me a bit in what you said above.
It baffled me in the beginning when I started and I found info difficult to piece together. Basically, i put the G29 code into the slicer custom startup code, make sure G29 is in there after G28 and then i gave printing a go with the z off set at 0. It started to print with the nozzle in the bed. I switched the offset to z2 and tried again. That was printing in the air. I tried again at z1 and it worked great so i left it there.
I suppose next time I might mess around with the paper and counting the z distance but i never really knew what I was doing first time round and it was easy. I do find that some times the nozzle will be slightly closer or further away from 1 print to another but i think thats just some kind of weird factor that I am missing (dirty nozzle maybe).
And like I said before, you can manually do what you want before you run a print job but when you start a job the printer forgets everything you already typed and uses the slicer Gcode for the build so other that the eeprom commands (m555 z*) you are wasting your time with the homing manual G29 commands.
Regards

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

mrmillsy — Mon, 13 Oct 2014 07:23:26 -0400

Quick question, with the hot-end raised (and cold, heh), if you run your finger across the nozzle does it move back and forth much?

I had the same issue as you with being a total newbie to all this and making a mess of my huxley support bar ... fortunately, the hair dryer trick worked very well and everything is ok now, but one of the things I had to ensure was that the bars holding the screws in were re-formed too, as otherwise they'd only provide a loose hold on the bar. The result was that the nozzle would get dragged out of position and I wouldn't be able to print well.

Tiny thing, thought I'd suggest it because I had the same issue with the support bar. I too am a total newbie, and reading your ride seems very similar to the one I went through! Actually, I think I'll start a "mrmillsy's build" thread, heh

Finally, regarding the Zhoming, this is the (NEWBIE!) process I use, which has provided a couple of successful prints:

Home X,Y
G29
Raise Z until I can get paper underneath, lower Z by 0.01 units until the paper can move around with a little bit of friction -- makes it hard to get paper in and out, but can manage it JUST. IE, getting it to the minimum distance possible.
Check new number in repetier-host, next to Z. Let's say it's 1.14
M555 Z1.14
M500
-> Slice & Print

Which sounds like I'm really not doing anything LIKE what other people are suggesting, but as I say, it's given me a couple of prints.

Good luck!

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sun, 12 Oct 2014 18:30:33 -0400

Last minute thought:
From the value from the G29 origin z=6.16 to the value at the last G29 probe at the front of the bed z= -4.4, this would provide a difference in bed level of 10.16mm.
I have checked the bed to the workbench with a ruler and at best I can see 2mm difference nothing like 10mm shown in the software.

Apologies just saw mikefiatx19 comments and hadn't realized that the manual commands are overwritten by the Custom G-code - fixed the cooling issue there but not sure how that may affect G29 and Z off-set ...

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sun, 12 Oct 2014 18:26:24 -0400

I have a few questions on Z off-set that I hope you can help with.
I am following this process:
1. Home x, y and z.
2. Run G29 (3 point probe) and Repetier Host shows:
< 00:02:33: Bed x: 10.00 y: 10.00 z: 6.16
< 00:02:38: Bed x: 10.00 y: 140.00 z: 6.17
< 00:02:43: Bed x: 100.00 y: 70.00 z: 6.73
< 00:02:43: echo:endstops hit: Z:6.73

3. At the last G29 probe point, near the center of the front of the bed, I raise Z to get a piece of paper underneath, counting the increments e.g +1.7mm

3. I then check (and don't understand) at the last point how much Z has changed with M114 that provides these numbers in Repetier:
< 00:06:58: X:100.06 Y:70.00 Z:-4.40 E:0.00 Count X: 100.10 Y:70.00 Z:-3.43

4. I then have enterred M555 Z 7.43 (from 6.73+1.7) - (I have been too scared to enter the negative values from M114)
5. Store results with M500.

And the hot end always crashes into the bed and drags with the Z stop triggered during the first part of the print - not good I'm sure.
Am I putting the wrong value in for Z ?
What value should I be enterring?

Many thanks for any suggestions,

Greg

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sun, 12 Oct 2014 18:20:03 -0400

Hi Guys
It's been a while but did not want to update on progress until I had some clear results, today I spent the whole day with the printer.
If you remember I have 2 problems:
1. it doesn't extrude enough PLA giving nasty prints as shown earlier.
2. I can't get the first layers to print without the hot end dragging across the bed - I suspect I am setting Z wrong.
So far I have:
1. Straightened the PLA bowden support with a hair dryer (mentioned above).
2. Dismantled the hot end and burnt off excess PLA with a camping gas stove and re-assembled.
3. Obtained some replacement PLA bowden supports just in case.
4. Replaced the Z axis coupling that disintegrated with the latest cone shaped Z motor connector from a more recent design.
Tried printing and no difference - very, ver frustrating, however the z axis stop is a lot smoother now I have re-routed all the cabling..

After I stopped looking at PRUSA printers ;-S , I removed the Bowden tube to measure how much PLA the extruder was actually pushing through.
With hot end and bowden tube removed I found that whilst 10 and 20mm extrudes OKish, when I try to extrude 100mm manually from Repetier host, I only see about 60 mm come out.
I can see the gear turning but the bearing is slipping.
I removed the bearing and added one layer finely cut masking tape to it's circumference and slipping is down to 80mm for a 100mm manual extrusion - will try another layer next weekend.
I know this is not a great fix but I hope it can hold to enable me to re-print parts for the printer.

.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

mikefiatx19 — Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:36:13 -0400

Hi Zackary,
I am not sure if you got the levelling issue and fan issue figured out due to your hot end problems but i know one thing that wasn't clear to me in the beginning was that the Gcode commands for G29 (3 point probe) and also the Fan ON/Off functions need to be added into the Slic3r custom code to have any effect on your prints.

If you use the manual instruction to set the fan to On in Repetier then the Slic3r code will override that code when you start a build. Same for the probing, unless it probes as part of the build code then the G29 will not take notice of the probe measurements.

In the Slic3r configuration you can enter a string of commands which will become part of every build file, thats where the G29 should be added and any fan instructions.

Regards
Mike

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

BackEMF — Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:51:39 -0400

Try to make some sandcastles 3D style and bring some innovation to the beach.

Happy holidays !

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Mon, 28 Jul 2014 11:04:40 -0400

not had a chance to try the camping gas stove yet as now on holiday for 3 weeks .... Will try for an update when I get back.... Happy holidays to you all!!

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

regpye — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 23:57:14 -0400

Quote
BackEMF
Also buy a tray of spare batteries. :) Those calipers tend to be a bit thirsty they automatically turn on when you even think about them.
I think we need a little Shenzen on every streetcorner. When i go to the local electronics store then they already double the price of a resistor when they walk to the storage box only to come back to tell me that they only have 10 on stock, please come back tomorrow, and the gas i put in the car to go back the next day doubled the price once again. They are stuck in the stoneage and the stupid politicians ain helping to get them op to date, even worse they claim more tax and make things even more expensive.

Opensource is helping the economy that's a sure thing, i see people doing better business with open source then by working for a greedy company. (and i also see opensource ripp offs)
But open source hardware could be doing a lot more for our economy if the local stores where a bit more 'Chinese', then we could source the parts more easy, and faster and the shop owner still would make money, where he now looses customers to China and the National economy will loose to China aswell.

When politicians are about to earn less money then they just raise the tax, they never fire a politician. and they never take a step back, they just squeese more out of the working class. I wonder where they where sleeping during economy class...

You're not wrong there. Get rid of ALL politicians, we would be far better off without any of them.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

BackEMF — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 23:18:20 -0400

Also buy a tray of spare batteries. :) Those calipers tend to be a bit thirsty they automatically turn on when you even think about them.
I think we need a little Shenzen on every streetcorner. When i go to the local electronics store then they already double the price of a resistor when they walk to the storage box only to come back to tell me that they only have 10 on stock, please come back tomorrow, and the gas i put in the car to go back the next day doubled the price once again. They are stuck in the stoneage and the stupid politicians ain helping to get them op to date, even worse they claim more tax and make things even more expensive.

Opensource is helping the economy that's a sure thing, i see people doing better business with open source then by working for a greedy company. (and i also see opensource ripp offs)
But open source hardware could be doing a lot more for our economy if the local stores where a bit more 'Chinese', then we could source the parts more easy, and faster and the shop owner still would make money, where he now looses customers to China and the National economy will loose to China aswell.

When politicians are about to earn less money then they just raise the tax, they never fire a politician. and they never take a step back, they just squeese more out of the working class. I wonder where they where sleeping during economy class...

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

regpye — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:09:35 -0400

I would have to agree with you BackEMF.
I needed a digital vernier as the one I had at the time was not good any more (dropped it)
I went to a local store to get one and the price really floored me, they wanted $85 for plus tax. I had a close look at it and it had "Made in China" label on the back,
I didn't buy it, not because it was made in China, but because of the price.
I went home and got online and found the same vernier for less than $10 with free shipping.
OK, it took about 3 weeks to get here, but I saved a bundle.
After it arrived I found it to be so good I ordered a few more just to have available.
I have given a few away to friends and I am still in front.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

BackEMF — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 16:51:06 -0400

Then you can imagine how hard the Chinese have worked to get their shipping and handling worked out. I think many post companies could learn something there...

China is the factory of the world, thoughas long as there are no local 'China shops' then China could become the shop of the world. I always try to source locally but what a pain that is...
Hardware stores only sell 'low tech' parts and if you go to a more specialised shop. then you need to have a company or else they won't even sell things to you. And their prices are insane.

Right now i'm looking for a local store who sells linear rods (now i have the feeling that i can hear everyone laugh). I found one who has them but only at full lenght, and they refuse to name a price or even sell them to me because i'm not a company. And i know that they are about to go out of business due to the crappy economy.

A few reasons why i like to have local sourced parts.
- direct available (no need to wait 1-6 weeks)
- the ability to see (and feel) what i buy.
- eventually it will save the planet a bit (less packaging in the bin, and less air traffic, now 80% of the Chinese airfreight is shipping the packaging materials)

On the other hand i'm wondering if the Chinese way eventually could be more eco-friendly then local sourced. I also see some advantages, it's hard to figure out actually. But the local economy also need to stay alive. In a way this is also a reason why i chose the (European) Smartrap. Sure, the parts all come from China, but i also supported the work Serge has put in it and kept a part of the French economy alive. (I hope) :-D

And to add some contradiction in the mix
- sourcing from China is better for my personal economy (although it takes ages for the goods to arrive)
- due to the recession the politicians RAISED the tax. So it became even more senseless to buy stuff locally (this makes you wonder where they've learned their economy...)

So yes, lots of respect to the ones like Serge and RegPye who actually make the effort to produce things, create, ship, support, deal with customers, etc.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

regpye — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 05:30:18 -0400

Quote
smartfriendz
It's true when you enter in the real world of preparing /shipping / maintaining your product, it changes a bit the feeling.
Overall, i'm eventually quiet happy with that, even i do lots of mistales ans re-ship lot of things :-)

I guess I have been lucky so far. Had some problems getting stuff though, seems to go missing in the post.
Nearly always takes a long time from China, around 5-6 weeks is normal unless you pay through the nose and get it sent by DHL

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

smartfriendz — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 03:52:12 -0400

It's true when you enter in the real world of preparing /shipping / maintaining your product, it changes a bit the feeling.
Overall, i'm eventually quiet happy with that, even i do lots of mistales ans re-ship lot of things :-)

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

Anonymous User — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 20:41:47 -0400

Making a hundred hot ends is easy. Selling a hundred hot ends is a gut wrenching nightmare. I shipped a package to the Crimea area a couple months ago and now he's mad because he didn't get his package. What the am I supposed to do about a freaking war? The passion for the product fades pretty quickly when you actually have to deal with customers.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

BackEMF — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:44:59 -0400

Reg is building a 100 headed printer, multicolor multimaterial.

Thats one big bunch of hotends! Like bats in a cave...

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

regpye — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 07:55:44 -0400

Quote
zackary
Many thanks Sogeking.... I have a camping gas stove that I may be able to use instead of a blow torch ... Not as good I,m sure but loads cheaper for me!!
Hopefully will get some time this week to try it out. Thanks again!!

Camper stove will work well - safer too for the nozzle.
Take a piece of wire about 150mm long and bend the end a little so you can hold the nozzle in the flame. You will be able to see the PLA burn out.Don't get the nozzle red hot, it may collapse quickly if you do.
Just do it is so it is nearly starting to go red, and then drop it into some cold water.
Some PLA, especially the Chinese cheap black is full of rubbish because it is mostly recycled PLA. Prints badly and leaves rubbish to collect in the nozzle.
If you find a cheap black that prints well, keep getting from that supplier, I have tried several and some are very good and some are very bad.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

smartfriendz — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 15:41:42 -0400

Happy it worked zakary,
I'm playing myself with hair dryer and PLA for not long time, but it's definitely a tool to have for anyone working with pla structures.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

regpye — Tue, 22 Jul 2014 09:00:29 -0400

Quote
Sogeking
Hi Greg,
I find that the best solution for fixing a blocked nozzle is to use a blowtorch. This seems to be the most common fix for this problem and I've seen Reg posting this before.
Poking the nozzle with a thin sharp object might damage it.
Unscrew the nozzle from the hotend (when cold), remove the PTFE liner, hold the nozzle with a pair of plyers and use the blowtorch for a few seconds.
Be careful not to overheat the nozzle, it should not start glowing. Dip it in water and you should have a very clean nozzle.
Do this outside and don't breathe the fumes! Fire and health hazard.

It's very important that you remember to remove the PTFE. When subjected to high temperatures it will release toxic fumes like HF and a lot of other nasty stuff (although in small quantaties...) See: [www.ewg.org]

Good luck!

The easiest way to clean the nozzle out is to heat it in a gas flame and let the PLA burn out. Take the nozzle off the hotend. Don't get it so hot that it turns the nozzle red.
After getting it hot for a few seconds, put it in water and the nozzle can then be checked to see if daylight can be seen through the nozzle hole.

Forget about trying to drill the hole out or using solvents to disolve the filament, burning out is the only good way to do it.

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

zackary — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:49:53 -0400

Many thanks Sogeking.... I have a camping gas stove that I may be able to use instead of a blow torch ... Not as good I,m sure but loads cheaper for me!!
Hopefully will get some time this week to try it out. Thanks again!!

Re: Greg's SmartRap Build

Sogeking — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:38:11 -0400

Hi Greg,
I find that the best solution for fixing a blocked nozzle is to use a blowtorch. This seems to be the most common fix for this problem and I've seen Reg posting this before.
Poking the nozzle with a thin sharp object might damage it.
Unscrew the nozzle from the hotend (when cold), remove the PTFE liner, hold the nozzle with a pair of plyers and use the blowtorch for a few seconds.
Be careful not to overheat the nozzle, it should not start glowing. Dip it in water and you should have a very clean nozzle.
Do this outside and don't breathe the fumes! Fire and health hazard.

It's very important that you remember to remove the PTFE. When subjected to high temperatures it will release toxic fumes like HF and a lot of other nasty stuff (although in small quantaties...) See: [www.ewg.org]

Good luck!