Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

n.glasson — Wed, 12 Apr 2017 19:58:32 -0400

I was tempted to buy one of these: Elide fire ball for peace of mind that my machine won't burn down my workshop when running long unattended prints. In the end I opted for wiring in a photoelectric smoke alarm to my house alarm system - with the alarm sensor on the ceiling near the 3D printer. This will ring my cell if it is triggered.

I like the look of those melting plastic tube triggered fire extinguishers, but like the Elide ball I am put off by the thought of the mess of a full blast of a powder extinguisher going off in my workshop. I know a mess in the workshop is preferable to having it burn down but the ideal extinguisher would also minimise cleanup. If your machine is in an enclosure (as mine is), the volume is rather small and a plastic melting tube triggered extinguisher should be do-able based on either a refillable soda stream type CO2 bottle or a disposable CO2 or CO2 Argon MIG welding bottle. These options would be cheap enough to afford to do a test by say running a candle on the carriage and remotely actuating the carriage up to burn the tube. I'd probably restrict the CO2 flow so that it wasn't violent enough to rupture my enclosure - just to displace the oxygen and put the fire out - without letting in more air after the event to allow re-ignition. Another way to trigger it inside an enclosure would be to run a tensioned string across the top of the enclosure that holds a spring loaded gas valve closed. When the string burns, the gas valve would be opened. If I were to setup an automatic extinguisher, I would also wire it into my house alarm somehow so that if the extinguisher is triggered, it also sounds the alarm and rings me. I think it would be pretty vital for any extinguisher event to be followed up very soon after by someone checking that the fire is out.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Dust — Tue, 11 Apr 2017 21:13:42 -0400

Smoke rises, it should be on the roof above the machine or the roof of your printer enclosure

putting it on the power supply or ramps means it will probably just skirt around the sensor and will not trigger until the room is full of smoke down to the level of the printer

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

rich1051414 — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 07:48:55 -0400

If you are going to mount the smoke detector somewhere, shouldn't it be over the power supply and/or ramps, the most likely point of electrical fire?

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

stopfire10321 — Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:39:16 -0500

The possibility of 3D printer catching fire usually DOES NOT depend on a particular manufacturer of printer, because most manufacturers are using the similar parts. Instead, the possibility of fire usually depends on the version of firmware that is installed ! More recent firmwares are more advanced and have the additional protection measures – like against a thermistor coming off place. For example, below you can find a commit message 43c298a (dated Jun 30 2014) from a Marlin Firmware repository. My cheap Chinese 3D printer (with Atmega 1284P) had a slightly older firmware version installed, so I had to update its’ firmware to enable this “Thermal Runaway Protection”. Always update a firmware of your 3D printer!

/*================== Thermal Runaway Protection ==============================
This is a feature to protect your printer from burn up in flames if it has a thermistor coming off place (this happened to a friend of mine recently and motivated me writing this feature).

The issue: If a thermistor come off, it will read a lower temperature than actual. The system will turn the heater on forever, burning up the filament and anything else around.

After the temperature reaches the target for the first time, this feature will start measuring for how long the current temperature stays below the target
minus _HYSTERESIS (set_temperature – THERMAL_RUNAWAY_PROTECTION_HYSTERESIS).

If it stays longer than _PERIOD, it means the thermistor temperature cannot catch up with the target, so something *may be* wrong. Then, to be on the safe side, the system will he halt.

Bear in mind the count down will just start AFTER the first time the thermistor temperature is over the target, so you will have no problem if your extruder heater takes 2 minutes to hit the target on heating.*/

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Dust — Sun, 30 Oct 2016 20:42:09 -0400

In my view this idea of smoke detector on the extruder is a bad joke... you need the smoke detector up high where the smoke collects

This would only work if the printer was in an enclosure.

If its out of the enclosure then the room has to fill with smoke down to the extruder... thats far to long and far to late.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

dave3d — Fri, 28 Oct 2016 15:34:27 -0400

I did not know it was possible to make a smoke alarm that small. If it could be developed further so that it sent an alarm signal (via bluetooth maybe) so that it could trip a relay, it would be ideal.
I have been operating a full size, hard wired, smoke alarm that trips the mains supply to the printer for nearly 2 years now. So far it has not been used in anger.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Ultibots — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 19:26:38 -0400

Hi All -

We have several customers who use the Atom Smoke Alarm. After reading through this thread and others, we decided to add this little safety device to our store.

Check out these mounts http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1187128

ATOM-Paperclip__08267.1476483679.1280.1280.jpg

Screen_Shot_2016-10-14_at_6.16.31_PM__48702.1476483696.1280.1280.png

Happy printing!

Brad - www.UltiBots.com
772-257-one thousand
sales )at( ultibots dotcom

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

AndrewBCN — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 16:23:25 -0400

Good thing you had a smoke alarm, and nobody was hurt, that's the most important thing.

Out of sheer curiosity, were you printing in ABS or PLA? Do you have any before/after pictures of you printer and hotend?

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

ggherbaz — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:00:35 -0400

Well I woke up last night with the sound of the smoke alarm, ran to the printer to saw my built plate in flames. The printed part was burning due to my heater resistor coming out of the heater block.
The fire damaged my fans, hotend and ABL sensor, but I'm still alive.

Time to reconsider what I thought up to now what is "secure in place".

Definitely a childish mistake on my part that thanks GOD will only cost me less than 100 bucks.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Antslake — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 22:21:24 -0500

This was awhile ago. I have since built a 16ga steel enclosure for my printer. It doesn't take much amperage to set a driver on fire. So fuses or not, would have never prevented this. I use a pyramid 20amp PS.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

AndrewBCN — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 20:32:26 -0500

Hi,
I find this fire very strange. The thing that makes me say that is that there are various fuses and current limiting devices that don't seem to have kicked in for some reason:

1) Pololu drivers are themselves current limited. Taking a close look at the picture of the RAMPS board, one can see that the extruder Pololu driver burned down, the other Pololus didn't.

2) The RAMPS board includes two PTC fuses. Admittedly these are not ideal devices, but they should limit the current somewhat. Both seem intact in the picture of the RAMPS board.

3) The power supply current limiting electronics should also have kicked in at some stage. I am not sure which PSU Makerfarm is shipping these days but surely it has short-circuit protection? Hopefully it is not one of those crappy LED PSUs from China that sell for less than $20 on eBay or AliExpress.

4) And finally, I assume the electrical installation in your workshop is adequately setup with the necessary fuses.

Definitely this fire should be investigated further. Something or various things didn't work as it/they should have.

I too survived a fire in my building less than 4 years ago and I know how traumatic the experience can be. The smell of burned things tends to linger on for months/years...

I hope you and your family get over this incident ASAP.

Cheers,
Andrew

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

iamdarkyoshi — Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:03:08 -0500

Although it wouldnt protect a wiring fault, I put a thermal fuse in series with my hotend heater and mounted it to the hotend. That way, if the heater gets stuck on for some catastrophic reason, the thermal fuse would disconnect it.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

docdawning — Fri, 20 Feb 2015 11:44:32 -0500

This whole subject has me seriously reconsidering my existence in the 3D printing community. :'(

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

botfeeder — Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:16:33 -0500

catch on fire. that's scary.
Before if you are running the printer over night, guys & girls.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

polyglot — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 06:39:18 -0400

Quote
UkIan
Could you link one please? I don't know what I'm looking for.

I bought item #151373405129. I also bought a 150C version to use as a safety trip on my heated bed, and I use the 60C version for thermal protection of my DIY audio amplifiers.

I expect some process variation between devices on switching temp but it may well mean that with careful selection, you should be able to get one that will reliably hold at 250C.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

UkIan — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 04:53:23 -0400

Quote
polyglot
I like the Pb-5Sn eutectic as thermal fuse idea

Until you get that tested, don't forget that there are bimetallic strips (with NC contacts rated for mains power, designed to be bang-bang thermostats) that can operate at higher temperatures than polymer thermal fuses. 250C seems readily available on eBay for <$5 and would work well to open a latched relay; I have a couple on the way and will test to see if one can hold reliably at 240C when bolted to a hotend.

A bimetallic strip shouldn't be damaged in the long term by operation just under the trip temperature, unlike a thermal fuse. And it's readily testable!

Could you link one please? I don't know what I'm looking for.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

polyglot — Mon, 20 Oct 2014 01:30:12 -0400

I like the Pb-5Sn eutectic as thermal fuse idea

Until you get that tested, don't forget that there are bimetallic strips (with NC contacts rated for mains power, designed to be bang-bang thermostats) that can operate at higher temperatures than polymer thermal fuses. 250C seems readily available on eBay for <$5 and would work well to open a latched relay; I have a couple on the way and will test to see if one can hold reliably at 240C when bolted to a hotend.

A bimetallic strip shouldn't be damaged in the long term by operation just under the trip temperature, unlike a thermal fuse. And it's readily testable!

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

pushthatbolder — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 06:46:32 -0400

Push notifications? i think this would count as a Fatal error and would send a message to your phone.

you could probably set up a smoke sensor to send a message to your phone as well, because, you know, its a fatal error.

or could set up a sensor to detect fire or smoke, and it could disconnect the power and make a ringing noise..

all circuits through safety feature,
then the safety features kick in, then it all turns off...

the link for example codes can be found here
[linksprite.com]

you could also put a tilt sensor, so if you machine falls over, it turns off main power.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

dave3d — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:46:37 -0400

Quote
Gregor R
What if you just wrap solder wire (without flux core) with the appropriate melting temperature with one or 2 turns around your extruder head. Insulating the wires from the extruder with Kapton before of course. Trough that solder wire you power your heating element. If now the extruder overheats the solder wire will melt and reliably cut the power to the heater.

What you are proposing is a well established principle and known technically as a fusible link.

There are many different types and grades of solder. For this application the solder needs form a eutectic I think. In other words a sharp melting point, otherwise it just goes gradually soft and mushy. The problem is finding a suitable composition.

I had a quick look at Wikipedia and a solder known as Pb-5Sn (95% lead + 5% tin) has a eutectic of 310 deg C.

Another possibilities are Zn95-Sn5 (95% zinc, 5% tin) this has a higher eutectic of 382 deg C, and even pure lead at 327 deg C.

Pure lead wire may be suitable and would be cheap.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

UkIan — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 18:17:04 -0400

Quote
CraigRK
Correct. Perhaps we should think about it like this:

For each printer the hot end temp should increase in some ratio according to the amount of time max power is applied
Could we track the power applied (time power was on) say over the last 5 minutes
Track whether temp is decreasing significantly in the same time
Correlate the 2. If we are applying power, then temp should be going up, not down

Sorry, not articulated very well. But rather than needing to set ranges or anything, the firmware should know if it is expecting the temp to rise, and if the temp actually drops, then warning bells should be ringing.

Then again, this is to cover the situation where the thermistor is pulled out of the hot end. I believe you can set Marlin to have 2 thermistors on the one hotend and stop based on a differential. This might be a quick win for people (although it presumes you have the hardware to make this a reality).

I second this idea. The pid should recognise if it isnt working (changed X, expected y, got z) and tell the printer to power down (after logging something to the console)

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Gregor_R — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:26:42 -0400

Just had a idea, will try it soon and see how it works out.

What if you just wrap solder wire (without flux core) with the appropriate melting temperature with one or 2 turns around your extruder head. Insulating the wires from the extruder with Kapton before of course. Trough that solder wire you power your heating element. If now the extruder overheats the solder wire will melt and reliably cut the power to the heater.
I don't think that all the sophisticated electronic approaches are robust enough to act as a real safety device. A safety device should be as simple as possible, so that there is no way that the safety device could fail itself too.

Just a thought :)

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

dave3d — Sun, 02 Feb 2014 10:22:26 -0500

I have now wired my smoke alarm via a second latching relay and it cuts the mains power and stays off.

Hope now it does not need to be used.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Yvan — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 11:39:58 -0500

Quote
A2

Quote
Yvan
Maybe a smoke detector in the fume hood could be hooked up to a relay controlling the exhaust fan.

If the fan was off, or marginally operational, the smoke detector wouldn't be effective located inside the ducting.

Yes, that is correct. Locating a detector in the ducting would be awkward. For example, the ducts I have are anywhere from 3 to 6 inches, not very big. The smoke detector would be hard to access, and could obstruct flow. It would also be prone to dust accumulation.

I had been thinking the best spot might be very near the intake in the fume hood. In other words, air would flow past the detector before going through the ventilation system.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

A2 — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 05:40:57 -0500

There is also the possibility that belts could instigate a fire.

Static Conductivity: Rubber or urethane belts can generate an electrical charge.

Static can ignite combustible dust, vapors, solvents, and other materials causing fire and or/explosion.
It can also cause unprotected electronic instrumentation to perform erratically.

\

All copper anti-static tinsel (Garland) is used to eliminate static electricity.
Functions as long as it is grounded, (below 150 feet per minute).
Tinsel has a minimum static threshold normally considered about 2000 volts.
Below this threshold tinsel typically becomes ineffective.
However, most static problems related to static charges do not show up at the threshold level.

Carbon filled Nylon filament brushes is another option.

Garland
[en.wikipedia.org]

TAKK
[www.statictinsel.com]

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

A2 — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 03:47:34 -0500

Quote
Yvan
Maybe a smoke detector in the fume hood could be hooked up to a relay controlling the exhaust fan.

If the fan was off, or marginally operational, the smoke detector wouldn't be effective located inside the ducting.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

Yvan — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 18:03:23 -0500

Othar, I wonder how the heat sensitive valve on those would work in a fume hood. I think it would work well for other applications, but the way mine are set up, a lot of heat would go out the ventilation system, that would really delay the responce time.

Maybe a smoke detector in the fume hood could be hooked up to a relay controlling the exhaust fan. When the smoke detector triggers, it shuts off air flow. That might let the extinguisher trigger much sooner from the heat build up. It would also give you a warning and a chance to responce before the more expensive extinquisher goes off.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

dave3d — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 13:12:20 -0500

othar, the halon extinguisher from safelinks looks a very interesting possibility. The Amazon one is dry powder.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

othar — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 13:06:18 -0500

Quote
dave3d
Yvan, my background is the chemical industry. I have never actually seen an automatic CO2 extinguisher system but I have seen dry powder systems. They are single use set off by a glass bulb that breaks at a preset temperature and releases the powder under pressure. The entire contents of the cylinder are discharged.

It would be possible I guess to design a system to use a nitrogen bottle particularly if the printer was sited in the garage. It would be cheap. Just a solenoid valve and maybe a timing circuit to shut it off after say a 30 second blast.

look at the link i give just above...

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

dave3d — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 13:02:27 -0500

Yvan, my background is the chemical industry. I have never actually seen an automatic CO2 extinguisher system but I have seen dry powder systems. They are single use set off by a glass bulb that breaks at a preset temperature and releases the powder under pressure. The entire contents of the cylinder are discharged.

It would be possible I guess to design a system to use a nitrogen bottle particularly if the printer was sited in the garage. It would be cheap. Just a solenoid valve and maybe a timing circuit to shut it off after say a 30 second blast.

Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.

othar — Fri, 31 Jan 2014 12:45:36 -0500

perhaps something like that : [www.safelincs.co.uk]

and not money heavy with the 1kg version... residue free

you put it over your printer... clean... efficient... sleep in peace..

edit : even better [www.amazon.com]

30$ of automatic security... but use powder...