Hello Thanks for all the help and advice in this forum and from the reprap community in general. I've just finished building my repstrap mendel and I've been printing ABS on a heated glass bed with kapton tape @ 100 C. The parts stick too well and I need a hammer and chisel to remove them which ruins the kapton. I also find the kapton hard to apply to the glass without trapping air bubbles. I just tried ABS juice (10mm of abs filament dissolved in 10ml acetone) on the heated glass bed (no kapton) and it works really well. It's easy to apply (smear a thin film onto the glass with a tissue), the parts adhere to the surface and the glass leaves a good finish on them. And they’re easy to remove when they're done. No need to remove the old ABS film from the glass; just wipe it with a tissue with some more ABS juice on it and you're ready to print again. I tried using a paintbrush but that just made a mess. It seems to work best with a very thin film . The glass should just look slightly misted after you apply it. Some slight lifting at corners on some of the first prints I’ve tried but no worse than I sometimes got with kapton and all acceptable so far. The adhesion is not as strong as kapton but that’s good because I can remove the parts easily without damaging them. I think this method looks very promising. https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,121996#msg-121996 Mon, 13 Jul 2026 05:22:18 -0400 Phorum 5.2.23 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,419747#msg-419747 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,419747#msg-419747 Now, you get hairspray and you get hairspray... Don't try your wife's 'Normal Hold', you should get something that is leaning towards 'Extra'- or 'Extreme' Hold, that works best.]]> cbrink Reprappers Wed, 15 Oct 2014 08:51:38 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,415806#msg-415806 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,415806#msg-415806
You need to use the ABS juice on top of Kapton tape. Not sure if you are doing that. I apply the juice with a paint brush as the bed is heating up - round about 90 deg C. I find more diluted juice seems to work better, at say 50% of saturation.

Sometimes I can't get the print off the bed, if the base of the print covers a big area. It needs to really cool off or put it in the fridge.]]> dave3d Reprappers Sun, 05 Oct 2014 15:06:14 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,415694#msg-415694 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,415694#msg-415694
With the white natural ABS supplied by Ultimaker, it dissolves nicely but I got very bad air bubbles once the glass heated up on UM2. Tried 90C and 100C. Doesnt work. I cleaned the glass with Acetone prior to applying. The white ABS behaves very differently

Black ABS that I got doesnt dissolve in Acetone! It only softens and forms terrible blobs. Apparently it has some secret additives in it. Also black ABS gears on extruder degraded after 20h of printing.

Orange ABS worked absolutely perfectly, I used a rather thick - like runny honey - solution and it printed just fine at 90 C and wasnt dependant on the layer thickness at all.

Juice doesnt stay on glass below 90 C. 70 C doesnt work, tested.]]> POI Reprappers Sun, 05 Oct 2014 10:59:02 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,300896#msg-300896 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,300896#msg-300896 I have just tried dilute ABS juice as suggested. First impressions are it works better.]]> dave3d Reprappers Sat, 25 Jan 2014 13:40:32 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,298861#msg-298861 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,298861#msg-298861
- Glass bed with glue stick applied in a smooth layer (Elmer's, UHU, etc... ) You should apply a few layers and allow the glue to dry for about 1 minute in between layers.
- First layer bed temp: 120C
- Other layers: 90C
- No brim required and I get no warping with ABS :)

PS: I also wrap my printer in a clear garbage bag to increase the chamber temp. It helps a little.

Eric]]> RP Iron Man Reprappers Tue, 21 Jan 2014 16:59:43 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,298810#msg-298810 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,298810#msg-298810
Then I found out purely by accidental laziness and oversight that parts stick to the same place over and over again without cleaning off the hairspray and reapplying.

Take a look at the pictures in my post, this print was on top of old hairspray. [nickinor.blogspot.com]

At this point I have given up on ABS. Although I am encouraged by some of the posts that say ABS juice works well but the effort of having to reapply it, get the mixture just right and worry about the possibility of breaking glass, I think I will skip it. Hopefully I can find someone to buy my spools of ABS.]]> nrandal Reprappers Tue, 21 Jan 2014 15:51:08 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,190250#msg-190250 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,190250#msg-190250 I always report what an IR thermometer reads on the surface, but I suspect reporting of bed temperatures is extremely inconsistent.
FWIW I'll also have rolls of filament that adhere perfectly then change rolls and nothing will stick or it's impossible to remove, so I'm not sure how useful other peoples results are anyway other than to ballpark starting points.]]> Polygonhell Reprappers Wed, 06 Mar 2013 14:44:55 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,190213#msg-190213 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,190213#msg-190213
I'd like to query the people reporting their results here, to clarify if the reported bed temperature is measured on the glass (top or bottom surface) or the thermistor on the heatbed.
I say this because currently I'm printing on a 2mm glass but this creates a temperature difference of 35C from the bottom side (where I am measuring with the thermistor) and the top side where the print stands. Do you see such a big difference between the two sides of the glass in your setup? Maybe the glass I'm using does not conduct heat well.]]> ardia Reprappers Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:29:48 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,178476#msg-178476 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,178476#msg-178476
Your mileage may (and probably will) vary

Mike]]> leadinglights Reprappers Tue, 22 Jan 2013 08:38:07 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,178342#msg-178342 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,178342#msg-178342 akril.net.au]

It is a splashback material, looks like perspex but less flexible. I was sick of my heated bed (it warped up in the middle when hot. I put a piece of Akril underneath, then turned the whole lot upside down. Alittle abs juice, bed perfectly level. The filament only just touched the bed on adhesion, I had to remove it with a chisel. No juice, just nice clean acetone wipe (Akril isnt affected by acetone). Nice long metal spatula works well. I am now onto my best prints ever!!!!! :)]]> Megs Reprappers Mon, 21 Jan 2013 17:34:28 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,170060#msg-170060 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,170060#msg-170060
I am currently playing around with rafting and the print that is running right now is looking pretty good.

The reason I am posting is to give a thumbs up to the sugar water idea. Seems to be working and combined with the rafting I may have my first successful abs print.]]> Kevlar818 Reprappers Thu, 06 Dec 2012 19:21:09 -0500 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,146813#msg-146813 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,146813#msg-146813 I have a glass jar with a screw top into which I put scraps of ABS and acetone. If it is a saturated solution some of the ABS will not be dissolved. I apply it to the glass with a paint brush at any temperature, replacing any that comes off with the printed objects. So far I have had no lifting.]]> Howie_a Reprappers Tue, 07 Aug 2012 20:03:20 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,145026#msg-145026 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,145026#msg-145026
I've found a few solutions to the (few) problems I've had with ABS not sticking to heated Kapton:

Make sure your Z-stop calibration is correct. Parts that are squashed harder to the bed stick better.
Raise the bed temperature. It's not too hot unless your print is not solidifying.
Raise the extruder temperature. It's not too hot unless your print is not solidifying, or you get smoke from your ABS, or your extruder melts (!).
Wipe the bed with solvent on clean paper towel, and dry it with another paper towel (to de-grease it). The solvent must must be totally oil free. I use Isopropanol, sold as epoxy thinner/cleaner.
Make sure that there aren't any cold drafts.

I take care not to touch the bed with my hands, and I've only needed one solvent wipe down in ~1000 hours of printing. YMMV.

HTH.

Please let us know if you solve it. :-)

BTW, I've sometimes found parts hard to remove from Kapton, but never really troublesome. At worst I let the bed cool, then put something on the bed to use as a fulcrum and carefully lever the part off with a flat head screwdriver.

For anyone that finds Kapton too sticky, PET may be a good choice. It behaves like Kapton but not quite as sticky.

Cheers,]]> leo.dearden Reprappers Fri, 27 Jul 2012 19:19:32 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144107#msg-144107 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144107#msg-144107 The tape adhesive is very strong when it has a large surface area in contact and you can't peal it off because the stuck part keeps it flat against the glass.
You will literally tear the tape around the outline of the part if you try and remove it with the part stuckdown.

Usually if I get a stuck part I resort to taking the bed off the printer and moving the plate downwards next to a bench so that a substantial part of the part will strike the bench, this usually pops the part off.

I've been using an extremely dilute abs juice, just barely enough plastic in it to look cloudy on the surface when it's applied on top of PET tape (because it's what happened to be on the build plate), and it sicks well and I have yet to have an issue with it releasing.]]> Polygonhell Reprappers Sun, 22 Jul 2012 20:43:23 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144102#msg-144102 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144102#msg-144102
Seems there are two issues here.
1. part needs to adhere to the build plate while printing (at an elevated temp when extruding with a heated bed)
2. part needs to release after printing (when heated bed cools down)

Seems to me that you have discovered a way to use Kapton tape (or other types of tape) that remove easily from the plate. So now its just a matter of finding something that makes the part stick better to the Kaptoon tape (or other).

So, I wonder if the Kapton tape (or any other tape that will release easily from the bed after the print is complete) is not the first part of the equation.

The next part, is how can we inprove the stickiness of the Kapton tape (or whatever) so the part sticks during printing.

So some questions...
What if the kapton tape surface was cleaned with say Isopropyl alcohol (very flammable but evaporates quickly). This was used years ago to clean disk heads.
What about applying some other form of "juice" to the kapton tape (or whatever) so the part sticks during printing.]]> cluso99 Reprappers Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:22:09 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144045#msg-144045 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144045#msg-144045 nophead Reprappers Sun, 22 Jul 2012 09:43:56 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144030#msg-144030 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144030#msg-144030
Oh. It also sells tape and luckily the label can be seen clearly: [item.taobao.com]
It is "3M™ Polyester Tape 8992". Ok it's not PTFE. (I guess he messed up with the term somewhat)

It sticks so well without fail so far, and when cooled object can be removed by hand (I am still working with small object, not sure if it will pop up automagically or not). I hope someone could double verify this. And it doesn't seems bloody expensive either. $13 for a roll (1in * 72 yard)

[www.shop3m.com]]]> sam0737 Reprappers Sun, 22 Jul 2012 07:43:44 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144005#msg-144005 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,144005#msg-144005
Where did you get it from?]]> nophead Reprappers Sun, 22 Jul 2012 04:14:23 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,143994#msg-143994 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,143994#msg-143994 I had sugar solution (10g over 100ml) and it somewhat works at 100C on glass plate. Not very good, but at least get it going with calibration object.
My MK1 PCB heated bed can't go over 100C even at full power...maybe it works better at higher power. 90 or 95C offers no adhesive force at all with the same sugar solution.

Today I bought another glass plate with PTFE film on it. Now it stick very well at 90C. (maybe it works even at lower temp?) It sticks so well that consider amount of force is needed to remove the printout if not cooled.
No solution needed, just heat and go.]]> sam0737 Reprappers Sun, 22 Jul 2012 01:11:29 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,141320#msg-141320 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,141320#msg-141320
Also, I use moderately thick ABS juice applied on a cold bed. It's still translucent when dried on the bed but you can definitely tell the color of the juice.

Thanks for all the help.]]> Pazu Reprappers Wed, 04 Jul 2012 20:56:19 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140859#msg-140859 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140859#msg-140859 aplavins Reprappers Mon, 02 Jul 2012 00:21:17 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140852#msg-140852 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140852#msg-140852
I always thought that the lower one can extrude at, the better? Also, does the extrusion temperature affects bed adhesion? I would think bed temp is more critical.

Also, at 200C my bridging is pretty nice and I'm afraid going higher can make my prints go bad.]]> Pazu Reprappers Sun, 01 Jul 2012 23:37:05 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140850#msg-140850 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140850#msg-140850 aplavins Reprappers Sun, 01 Jul 2012 23:27:12 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140848#msg-140848 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,140848#msg-140848
So far, I'm having the best adhesion with thin juice applied on a cold bed before heating to 90C and printing. It's quite good when the print starts but I can see slight lifting as the print proceeds and gooey strings as the edge lifts. My ABS extrusion is at 200C.

I need help. Should I go even higher temp for the bed? I tried 110 but it's not good, but I think I applied it on a hot bed (acetone evaporated too faster to adhere?)

I'm printing at 0.25mm layer height with the first layer at 0.15mm. Please help! I so tired of losing prints when the things just drop off the bed...]]> Pazu Reprappers Sun, 01 Jul 2012 23:19:34 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,137829#msg-137829 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,137829#msg-137829 nophead Reprappers Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:13:50 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,137822#msg-137822 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,137822#msg-137822
I use a thin mixture of ABS+acetone and paint it onto the bed with a cheap brush. This leaves a bit of a texture to the surface. I've played with mix ratios and bed temps, I now print at 95C bed temp for the first layer (then drop to 90C) and get reliable adhesion that is the right strength where I can break it loose without destroying the glass, but it stays stuck during printing.

As nophead says I think there's a correlation between how "fresh" the application of the slurry is and how reliably you can get the print off. However I have no data to back this up, just a gut feel.

If a print doesn't want to come loose from the bed, forcing it will usually result in the print or the glass breaking. I've had some luck with popping the glass+print into the freezer to thermally "shock" it. A couple cycles between room temp and freezing will help get the part to come loose without breaking anything. This isn't fullproof, I'd say the success rate is somewhere between 60%-70%.]]> crispy Reprappers Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:17:57 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,137652#msg-137652 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,137652#msg-137652 bma8315 Reprappers Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:54:56 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,134411#msg-134411 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,134411#msg-134411

/tom]]> TomCeeMe Reprappers Thu, 24 May 2012 13:00:44 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,134271#msg-134271 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,134271#msg-134271
I have had it pull scabs off the glass though. I think what happens is the stuff at the outside that rarely gets built on stays there a long time and burns brown. It I then build something near the edge is sticks like hell and gets brown stains on it. That is when it can break the glass. The solution is to always wipe the whole glass with new solution, even the bits rarely used.]]> nophead Reprappers Wed, 23 May 2012 17:56:12 -0400 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,134268#msg-134268 https://reprap.org/forum/read.php?4,121996,134268#msg-134268 I tried the lighter concentrate, and that seems to work fine - but more often than not, I probably tend to use a way more concentrated solution than necessary (sometimes the glass is nearly opaque w/ a thick layer of dried ABS sludge on it...)
there's no rational reason behind it - it's more likely because I lost too many prints to warping + curling, so now when I'm doing large, critical prints I want to make extra sure things stay flat + bonded w/ the glass. w/ my heated bed @ 90C, these prints aren't going _anywhere._

I've never pulled any glass shards when removing the prints though, and I'm using the cheap 3mm 2$ hardware store glass.
here's my process:
_ I add some extra gcode in slic3r so at the end of the print, the bed's centered + the fan is turned on full (I'm using a re-purposed 12V server-cooling fan, so it's like a mini-turbine.)
_ I wait until the bed's room temp. - there's all sorts of nice cracking and popping as the print slowly detaches from the glass
_ I cut an outline around the print w/ a razor, and I slowly wedge a sharpened metal putty knife around all the edges of the print until it pops right off.
so far this method's given me the most consistently good quality results (even though the bed can sometimes look like a janky crated moon landscape.) this is probably overkill, and in reality I'll probably reduce the concentration of the ABS juice in the future - but for now I have too many critical prints in the pipeline to muck about w/ experimenting.]]> discocyborg Reprappers Wed, 23 May 2012 17:01:52 -0400