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Fine Tuning Feedback

Posted by bajasam96 
Fine Tuning Feedback
October 08, 2011 04:15PM
Ok community. I have gotten my settings to the point were they give me something resembling what I'm asking for, but only barely...

This is my current output:


When I try to print the hollow cube from thingiverse.

Here are my settings: (all defaults unless otherwise stated)

Bottom: active, all defaults
Carve: active
-Perimeter With over Thickness = 1.5
Chamber: off
Clip: active
-Clip Over Perimeter Width = 0.4
Comb: active
Cool: off
Dimension: Active
-Extruder Retraction Speed = 500
-Filament Packing Density = 0.91 (comes out incredibly sparse without this)
-Retraction Dist = 2.75
-Restart Dist = 2.75
Export: active
Fill: active
-Grid Extra Overlap = 0.12
-Infill Perimeter Overlap = 0.3
-Infill Solidarity = 0.3
-Infill Width over Thickness = 1.0 (very sparse without these changes)
(seem to get best results with "Loops->Perimeter->Infill")
Fillet: active
-"Bevel"
-Corner Feedrate over Operating Feedrate = 0.9
-Reversal Slowdown Distance over Perimeter = 0.35
Home: off
Hop : off
Inset: active
Jitter: active
Lash: active
-X Backlash = 0.1
-Y Backlash = 0.1
Limit: active
-Max Initial Feedrate = 30.0
-Max Z Feedrate = 3.0
Multiply: off
Oozebane: off
Preface: default
Raft: active
-Base: off
-Initial Circling: off
-Infill Overhang over extrusion Width = 0.1
-Interface: off
-Object Rates all = 0.4 (defaults)
-Raft & Support: off
Reversal: off
Scale: off
Skirt: active
-Gap over perimeter width = 5.0
-Layers = 1
Speed: active
-Feed Rate = 30
-Flow Rate = 30
-Perimeter Feed Rate = 0.6
-Perimeter Flow Rate = 0.6
-Travel Feed Rate = 50
Splooge: off
Stretch: active
-Path Stretch Over Perimeter Width 0.15 (helps infill stick to edges)
Temperature: active (defaults, but seem very high compared to some of the temps I've heard referenced...)
Tower: off
Unpause: off
Widen: off
Wipe: off

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2011 04:20PM by bajasam96.
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 08, 2011 05:49PM
Have you calibrated eSteps in firmware?
FPD should = 1 if you have ESteps correct.

And set restart distance to 0 it should NOT be 2.75

Turn lash off

Turn temperature off

Are you using Teacup or Sprinter?

And multiply may help position your parts


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 08, 2011 05:58PM
What Skeinforge are you using?

What Material are you using? (Abs, Pla?)

What kind of extruder are you using? (bowden, geared, direct drive?)

What Nozzle size are you using?
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 08, 2011 06:04PM
Sorry these are all good questions I forgot.

Im using Skeinforge40 and ReplicatorG. Firmware is the Kliment Sprinter.

E_steps_per mm have been accurately set. I can extrude 100mm nearly exactly (+/- 0.5mm). I realize that the FPD should = 1, but it was always so sparse and would eventually fail until I compensated with this variable...

The hotend is the new V9 from mendel-parts.com.

Filament is 3mm (2.75mm) PLA, and the nozzle is 0.5mm.


Thanks for the input
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 08, 2011 06:32PM
Well, I would upgrade to SF 43 as it is mostly the same, but fixes a number of bugs in the perimeter and infill width among other things.

Also, It is best to troubleshoot a plain old rectangle at 100% line infill.

Change everything to these:

Bottom: Additional Height over layer thickness: .5
altitude, 0

Carve: active
Layer Height: .35mm
-Perimeter With over Thickness = 1.5

Chamber: off
Clip: active

-Clip Over Perimeter Width = 0.3

Comb: OFF

Cool: off
Dimension: Active

-Extruder Retraction Speed = 25

-Filament Packing Density = 1 (comes out incredibly sparse without this)
-Retraction Dist = .6
-Restart Dist = 0

Export: active

Fill: active

-Grid Extra Overlap = 0
-Infill Perimeter Overlap = 0
-Infill Solidarity = 1

-Infill Width over Thickness = 1.5 Loops->Perimeter->Infill

Fillet: OFF

Home: off

Hop : off

Inset: active

Jitter: OFF

Lash: OFF

Limit: active

-Max Initial Feedrate = 30.0

-Max Z Feedrate = 3.0 (this will move under the dimension tab in SF 43)

Multiply: off

Oozebane: off

Preface: default

Raft: active

-Base: off
-Initial Circling: off
-Infill Overhang over extrusion Width = 0.1 (raft additional margin?)
-Interface: off

-Object Feed Rates: .4
Object Flow Rates: .2

-Raft & Support: off

Reversal: off

Scale: off

Skirt: active
-Gap over perimeter width = 5.0
-Layers = 1

Speed: active
-Feed Rate = 30
-Flow Rate = 30

-Perimeter Feed Rate = 0.6
-Perimeter Flow Rate = 0.6

-Travel Feed Rate = 50

Splooge: off

Stretch: active (black magic to be determined later)

Temperature: active (I turn this off and control my temperature from the bookends/preface start and end.gcode files)

Tower: off
Unpause: off
Widen: off
Wipe: off


Then try the cube [www.thingiverse.com] and take as good of a closeup as possible.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2011 06:35PM by Andrew Diehl.
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 08, 2011 06:52PM
Sounds fair enough, I'll run it tonight.

Thanks for the help
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 09, 2011 03:20AM
Well here goes...

This is using SF40 (I couldn't get ReplicatorG to play nice with SF44), but otherwise exactly the settings you identified.


View 1:



View 2:


So I thought those were a great improvement from where I was. A little overstuffed but a big improvement nonetheless.
Also I noticed that the infill didnt quite bond to the perimeter.

So I increased the overlap ratio, and tried a regular infill solidarity of 0.2

This is what I got:


Not that great.. My best best guess was that it must be too hot due to the saggyness... So I turned down the temp

Then came this:


The plastic was not bonding very well and the entire piece was very brittle. It seems that my "intuition" was steadily driving me away from progress...

So its back to you guys, where do I go from here?
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 09, 2011 03:15PM
Strange. SF shouldn't influence RepG compatibility at all. What exactly is the problem?

First, you are trying to go the wrong direction with your adjustments. The very first new cube in quite under filled, not over stuffed.

Also, change the setting for extra shells to Zero.

Try reprinting the first cube at 100% infill but at half the speed/feedrate . My gut guess is something is a bit off with your hobbed bolt, and decreasing speed usually minimizes those issues. Once you get it perfectly working at low speed, you can later increase it slowly until you see a problem creep in.

Also, have you touched the firmware at all? It looks like you may have the acceleration too low. (very hard to tell for sure at this point)

Your original temperature is probably OK for now. Another way to fix sagging inner layers is to decrease the layer height (so as to stretch the filament more as it comes out the nozzle) or to increase the speed/flow rates (more die swell, so filament stretches more.) Neither of theses really matter at the moment because our first goal is to print a completely filled box. We'll get to the rest later.


www.Fablicator.com
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 09, 2011 03:41PM
Ok then, back to the first settings. I'm not using the hobbed bolt/ Wades design. This is the mendel-parts V9 hotend, so it has machined teeth.

Interesting point on the acceleration, Im using Kliment Sprinter, and did have problems earlier on in development with missing steps. So yes my accels are turned down a bit. Where would you expect them to be and Ill put them back?

Thanks again for the input.
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 09, 2011 04:03PM
Maybe you need more tension on the filament idler then. BUT DON"T CHANGE IT YET. We need to see what slowing down things does first. It's best to do one change at a time, otherwise you never really pinpoint the root causes.

If the acceleration is down too low, the ends of a line will be very wide and the middle will be rather narrow (similar to what I was seeing on yours)

I use an acceleration of 6000mm/s but I have an atypical machine. Since we are slowing down your axes for the moment you can probably increase your current acceleration quite a lot. Maybe someone else can recommend a typical value. Hold off for now though, and just let me know what it currently is if you can.


www.Fablicator.com
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 09, 2011 04:20PM
Ok here goes.

I forgot to adjust the shells to 0 but otherwise this is with a reduced speeds to 25. Unfortunately I ran out of fillament during the build, I have more but I'll need to try again later. I included arrows on the picture to try to help identify where the main problem areas are.




Black Arrows: These spots on the perimeter only "grab" about 50% of the time, leaving large gaps as the layers go up.

Red Arrow: This shows how the infill does not quite bond to the shells/perimeter

Blue Arrow: My infill is still not quite 100%



Thanks for your time.
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 09, 2011 04:52PM
Ok. You definitely have an extruder problem. You can see right next to the red arrow the infill is actually rather solid, where it varies somewhat throughout the rest of the print. Also, it stops extruding completely where the top black arrow is.

Now, if your extruder is making clicking noises occasionally, it means you do not have enough torque on the extruder, so you need to either increase motor torque by increasing the current, or decrease the filament resistance by loosening up on the pinch wheel a bit.

If the motor sounds fine, try increasing the force on the filament idler, since you must be stripping the filament slightly.

Also, is there any filament build up on the filament grip wheel? if there is, it is likely a filament stripping issue.

As for the not meeting filament, that could be a result of the extruder being finicky so far, or it is possible your belts are loose or you have an out of round or loose pulley.


www.Fablicator.com
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 10, 2011 02:22AM
Wow wow wow, you found it. It's printing like a pro! (fortunately or unfortunately I found/fixed a handful of things so I'm not 100% where the actual problems were...)

I ran out of filament on that last run, so in installing new material, I checked all the bolts and worked out some slop in the x&y axis. A couple bolts had vibrated out a little, they were tightened up.

To answer your questions: The pinch wheel was already fairly tight, and the there were no shavings. Nor was there any clicking during operation. And the pulleys are from mcmaster so out of round was out of the question.

After noticing how much some of the tighter bolts had vibrated loose, I decided to re-level the bed. It turned out to be noticeably off.

After re-snugging all of the bolts I could find, The belts were nice and tight. (making a nice twang when flicked)

I reinstalled the filament, and put a little extra pinch on the wheel, just on the odd-chance that it was slipping and the shavings were blowing away. (The mendel-parts V9 has a mini fan blowing on the assembly to keep it cool). Also I upped the current on the driver. Its now ~1/3 of the rotational travel. (probably a bit more than nessisary, but my motor is cooled)

Then onto the software changes:

I saw that there was a new release of Sprinter in the last week. So rather than going through and adjusting my accel and max speed values in my old program, I just downloaded the new firmware and plugged my calibration values in. An important point that I never would have noticed otherwise-
- My E and Z axis were set to disable when not in use! (I think this is likely one of the bigger culprits). The new firmware had them holding their position at all times.

With my mechanical tweaking and firmware upgrade/corrections, I printed out the box...


Here's in process, looking promising....


And Completed...


Not even in the same league as what was coming out before!
Thanks for all the input getting me here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2011 02:23AM by bajasam96.
Re: Fine Tuning Feedback
October 10, 2011 10:53AM
Haha, disabling the steppers will do that to you.

Looks really good now!


www.Fablicator.com
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