Please help, which printer to build.....

***ALREADY posted this on the makerbot forums. Hoping to get some better, more variety, less biased advice here.***

Hi guys, first of all thanks for the help.

I had some interest a while ago in 3D printing, and since then I have gotten several parts printed by companies (shapeways and my school). I had some interest in the "cupcake" a while ago, but lost it. But now I am VERY interested in doing the thing myself.

So, I have a few conditions that I would like to meet for the printer. There are sooo many printers and additional parts I have no idea what to get. Just looking for some quick advice from a pro.

Conditions:
-Best quality available (most important) (I can fine tune it, as far as I know the TOM is the best quality? Or maybe a tuned mendel? Thoughts?)
-Stable build platform, easy to remove prints. (Heated, or just Krylon tape? Blue tape?)
-Not super expensive (I am on a budget, but willing to pay for what I need for good quality)
-Good software/hardware integration
-LCD display, memory card support, USB hookup
-NO SOLDERING! (I am GREAT with simple stuff, like soldering motor connectors, but I can't do breadboards or circuits for my LIFE. PLEASE pre-assembled electronics board)
-Good user interface
-Reliable extrusion (what is the best print head/feeder thingy?)
-Relatively simple software (I am good with CAD and RepG and stuff, but not with coding or anything)
-Support material ability would be nice, but not needed.

Things that I DO NOT need:
-Automated build platform
-A big build platform (I would mostly do smaller prints)
-Easy assembly (I am pretty tech savy)

So, can anybody point me in the right direction? I would like to purchase extra parts, like the newest extruders and nozzles and stuff. Complete parts list would be great (spoon-feed me )

I would consider to buy one used, if it could be cheaper, and already very hi-def.

Thanks again.

Makerbot products do NOT have the best quality. Generally speaking, all these machines can achieve great results, but the best ones unquestionably go to Ultimaker users. Check this stuff out: http://davedurant.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/ultimaker-faq-but-what-about-the-quality-of-prints/
You can pick of an Ultimaker for the price of a Replicator.

But t sounds like you want a Magergear Mosaic. It's nice and cheap compared to a TOM or a Replicator, it has a medium-sized build platform, you can get pre-assembled electronics, and it has a good reputation. For even cheaper, get a Makergear Prusa kit, which will be a bit more of a challenge to assemble and be a bit more of a science project, but it has a nice large build platform. Makerbot machines are good, but overpriced, and you won't be able to take advantage of the blistering pace of change and improvement in the RepRap community.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 04:47PM by Pointedstick.

Yeah, thanks. It really did seem to me like the makerbot products are pricey, and riddled with problems. I would prefer to go another route, especially if it could mean a big jump in quality and a lower cost.

I do not remember the Ultimakers from about a year ago, when I was really interested in this stuff. Just attests to how fast this field is growing.....

And SWEET JESUS those are some high quality prints!

EDIT: Now looking at the Prusa.... looks like that would be the best choice. Great build area, quality, price, etc.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2012 09:29PM by Adman234.

Just did a bit more research. Looks like the Makergear Prusa is the way to go. It has a large, heated build platform, a complete kit with minimal soldering and quality parts, and good parts support with a great extruder.

Any thoughts on what else I should pick up in addition to this kit? With the heated print bed and 1.75mm nozzle, should I use ABS or PLA? Should I buy anything else? Remember that this is my first printer. I have all the tools to put it all together (skimmed the guide) but what would a pro recommend picking up in addition to the base kit?

Once again, thanksx1000 for the help.

@adman234 - you can chat with kit owners and people actively assembling kits in the MakerGear IRC channel.

Rick
MakerGear

Sorry for the bump, not sure on the exact rules for this forum, but I assume a small bump is OK. If not, let me know.

Found this guy: [www.mixshop.com]

Any thoughts? For the best quality, a smaller nozzle and smaller filament is the way to go, correct? Along with PLA?

What else should I get with that kit besides extra plastic? I already have basic tools, but should I get anything such as extra hardware/parts?

And for the best quality for a PRUSA, what parts should I print first? (I was thinking, after I get it decently calibrated, to print belt tensioners, stability joints, feet to attach to a workbench, a few fan mounts, and possibly some reinforced redesigned parts. Any other input?

Again, thanks a lot.

Adman234:

You seem too rushed to get the best quality out of the box, for that result you should better go for a commercial 3D printer. I guess this might be beyond your budget. It has been shown that a [fine tuned] Prusa Mendel can outperform some commercial printers. But it is not obvious for many people the level of commitment needed on the user side before achieving such a result.

My experience is that this is more like a hobby, where you will end up needing a bit more money than expected because you end up breaking something sooner or later. It takes a while till you start to get the hang of it and all this adds up so it is very unlikely you will get qood quality parts from day one.

I'm not trying to scare you at all and I think a Prusa could be a very good choice (and many people are happy with Makergear's).

There are many factors that will help you with "quality": 0.9º steppers, GT2 belts, ball bearings, lubrication, printer calibration, fine-tuned firmware and slicer software, right temperatures (bed+hotend) and printing speeds, fan control ... etc.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2012 02:44PM by misan.

If you just want to print, get a commercial pre-built machine.

If you like the idea of RepRap, and want to build and evolve your skills while staying at the bleeding edge of diy 3d-printing, get a prusa. Use it to print another RepRap and then use them both to upgrade each other.

Self sourcing is where you'll learn the most, if not the makergear prusa kit has a good reputation, at a slightly higher price.

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--
-Nudel
Blog with RepRap Comic

Thanks to both of you. I'm sorry if I came off as rushed or shooting for the impossible.

I just want to get a printer up and running first. Then, I will start paying attention to details. I hope to get the best accuracy possible, even with my limited experience. I will OF COURSE play around with it, learn the tweaks, and get some experience to see what I need to do. I was just looking for some input on helpful suggestions for the best possible quality, just to think about.

I agree that the makergear prusa looks much nicer. Bearings, nice printed parts, a good pre-soldered heated bed, and the attention to detail make that kit look promising out of the box. From there, I could upgrade, and I will come back to you guys when I need tips getting even more quality out of my printer when I get there.

Commercial prebuilt machines are certainly an option, but to me there are just too many issues for me (cost, inability to upgrade easily, non-open source, expensive print media, etc).

I just hope you all understand, I want to approach this slowly and methodically. And once I get a few prints off, I have seen enough pictures to really want to get the full potential of the printer. Just a tuned prusa yields amazing results from what I have seen, and so I come to you guys. Can anyone give me some tuning tips and guides? I have been reading all the info I can find in the wiki and on the web, if anyone else has some info to absorb it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot. I might make another thread when I actually buy the thing, "how to get the best print quality from a makergear prusa" not only to get tips from a wonderful community but to serve as a guide for future newbie rep-rappers like myself.

And in case anybody was wondering, I will be primarily printing puzzles. That is why the quality needs to be so great.

[www.youtube.com]

^^^That is a puzzle that I made with my school's dimension 3D printer. I printed masters and casted them. I hope that with a prusa and it's relatively cheap material, I could produce many similar puzzles for much less time and effort on my part.

Thanks again, and remember that all tips and any bones you can throw me are GREATLY appreciated.

Adam

Just did a lot of reading of the RepRap blogs and found TONS of really great info. I could read that for hours.

I will be going with the makergear prusa medel kit, hopefully ordering it by late April. I can only hope they remain in stock (with the heated bed and 1.75mm filament) until then.......

Thanks again everyone. I will make a new thread when it arrives and I crave better prints. But before then, I will do as much research and tinkering as I can.

Adman234 Wrote:
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> I will be going with the makergear prusa medel
> kit, hopefully ordering it by late April. I can
> only hope they remain in stock (with the heated
> bed and 1.75mm filament) until then.......


Not that I have anything specifically for (or against) MakerGear (or any of the other kit suppliers) - but if you are really keen to get started, have you considered "crowd sourcing" the parts for your Prusa Mendel (eBay, local hardware store, people who list on RepRap, etc), rather than buying an all-in-one kit from a single supplier with possibly limited capacity / long lead times? You can probably save yourself a few bucks compared to an all-in-one kit, and you can spread the financial pain across a few weeks or months.

I built my Prusa this way; I bought my first components on eBay and the local hardware / electronics stores in mid-August 2011; got my first prints about 6 weeks later (end of September); and was producing "quality" parts (well, good enough to satisfy me!) 4 to 6 weeks later. I'm still tweaking (added a heated bed, linear bearings, etc), but I can now make parts on demand that I am really happy with!

Just a thought ...

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Follow my Mendel Prusa build here: [julianh72.blogspot.com]

Thanks. I was considering doing it that way, but I have heard great things about the makergear kit.

I really enjoyed your blog BTW. Great helpful info.


OK, I hope you guys don't hate me for this ... but I have once again changed my mind.

I saw the indiegogo for the SeemeCNC H1 printer. WOW, I love it, and it is super-cheap!

I like it better for the following reasons:

-Parts are molded for better strength, heat resistance, and prescicion
-CHEAP! (less that half the price of the MG kit)
-Computer controls the steppers, NOT an external circuit like and arduino. This is the future I think. But what do I know...
-Easy assembly
-Great extruder, I think it looks better than Wades.
-Quality after tuning is amazing, reported to be .02mm when calibrated
-Uses 1.75 mm filament
-Nice print area
-Ships with linear bearings for an extra 50 bucks
-Ready to ship!

Reasons I am hesitant:
-relatively untested technology
-no heated bed (I will print mostly in PLA anyway...)
-not prusa compatible (or anything compatible for that matter) so upgrade parts will all be custom

What do you guys think?

Really Bad Idea.

Since you have a set of criterion, do not buy a printer which is not finished and can't make any real claims as to performance.

The biggest thing to look at is the parts that a normal user have been able to make with the machine.

Not saying they won't be good printers, but there are quite a few people left disappointed with certain other campaigns...

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www.Fablicator.com

Quote

-Computer controls the steppers, NOT an external circuit like and arduino. This is the future I think. But what do I know...

No that is actually the past. You need a computer with a parallel port, which is rare these days, and a proprietary program on Windows or Linux with real time extensions. And with an Arduino with an SD card you can run stand alone, without having to leave your PC on,

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Hmm... I would say it is pretty much a finished design. No longer Ingiegogo. They are for sale now on their website, in stock...

Just do a quick "utube" or "ustream" search for "seemecnc" and you can see a few real prints. I was shocked at the quality.

I think that for $350 (plus $40 for the bearing kit), I could get it and get it printing decently.

Once it was printing, I could print a few upgrades for it. Fan mounts (and fans), reinforcement pieces, stuff to make it more solid and consistent.

Then, I could upgrade the belts, steppers, and other hardware until I got the quality perfect. I do not expect this to be a "lego build" where I buy everything and it all goes together perfectly like legos.

So far, this new printer seems promising. I can't really find anything wrong with it, and I'm more than happy to be a guinea pig.

And that Fablicator looks promising, good luck with that. Looks just about perfect for my needs, if it was available and at the right price.

Fair enough. I only saw was was on the linked indigogo page.


> Hmm... I would say it is pretty much a finished
> design. No longer Ingiegogo. They are for sale now
> on their website, in stock...
>
> Just do a quick "utube" or "ustream" search for
> "seemecnc" and you can see a few real prints. I
> was shocked at the quality.

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www.Fablicator.com

Adman234 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So far, this new printer seems promising. I can't
> really find anything wrong with it, and I'm more
> than happy to be a guinea pig.

Good luck! From their website [seemecnc.com] , it says:

Here's what you will need:

A PC with parallel port
CNC control software such as Mach3, EMC2 or similar
Basic soldering skills/tools to assemble the extruder control and wiring
A few evenings to assemble the machine

Does your PC have a parallel port? None of mine do!

And did you check the cost for the licence of the proprietary control software? $148 for the suggested Mach3 software takes the price from $351 to 499; you are starting to get close to the price of a Prusa.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 06:54PM by julianh72.

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Follow my Mendel Prusa build here: [julianh72.blogspot.com]

I keep reading these threads were folks are looking for ready to run printers. The response from the folks who have working printers is always to go a similar route to the way they went.

I've come to the conculsion that some folks may not be able to get there due to the difficulty of hardware, firmware and software. They then buy a unit from some internet providor, get no support and expect folks to bail them out on this forum. Very frustrating.

To me it seems like a poor way to support the growth of this hobby or technology or what ever you consider it.

The point is if an injection molded printer using standard low cost stepper drives and running Mach3 which is the most popular CNC control software, running on tens of thousands of computers all over the globe, eliminates that hardware, firmware, software learning curve then I think thats a great addition to this technology.

For all us experts, It might not be right for you but consider that you might not be a typical user.

Adman234 if you think the support is there for this H1 printer... I'd say go for it. Let us know how it turns out.

Well, I just did a bunch of research on the seemecnc model. Looks incredibly solid and accurate, more than enough for my needs.

[www.ustream.tv]

^^There it is printing live.

And also, parallel port is no issue. Cards are like 20 bucks.

[www.amazon.com]

The guy who owns the place was giving me a LOT of great advice over the livestream. The mach3 software is AMAZING. He can stop midprint, adjust settings midprint, oh man it is nice and pretty easy to use. He uses RepG and skeinforge with it.

So with the software, bearings, and plastic, the total is about 600 bucks. There is actually a HUGE community for these, they are far from untested.




Thanks for all the advice. But because this really isnt reprap anymore, I think I will head over to the seemecnc forums for now. Thanks again, and I will keep you all updated on any progress.