Have you guys seen this? Makibox A6

Makibox

$350 for the kit! Anybody following this project? Price seems too good to be true to me.

What do you think?

Roy

UPDATE: Found their website. Makibox

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 09:11PM by royco.

It's sort of like a mini-Ultimaker. Seems a strange design choice, using the ultimaker-style X and Y axes and a Bowden extruder, then hobbling the speed to "80 to 100mm/s" by using leadscrew (quote from the video). Given that electronics and motors are pretty much a fixed cost of around $175, I don't really see how he can provide a kit for $350. And he's got funding for effectively a cardboard box mockup, a rendering and a couple of axes demonstration?! It's nothing more than a hobby project! There's A LOT to be worked out.

Hi, this is Jon from Makible.

Actually, the costing you are quoting is quite off. We buy direct from the Chinese suppliers, so you can assume that motors and electronics are around half of our costs and the rest of the bits are the other half (along with a reasonable profit). My background is toy and consumer product development and manufacturing for over a decade, previously robotics and bio-medical engineering, so I'm designing this to be a much better experience and reduce the cost at the same time.

Drive screws are much more easier to maintain and significantly cheaper than pulley systems. The comparison to Ultimaker is not apt, as the cost is not anywhere near it. However, compare it to the base speed (most run at 30mm/s) of the RepRap and you will see that it is faster and cheaper. It outputs 50% larger than a Makerbot and is faster at a quarter of the price.

We will also be putting out supplies for most machines on MakiBox.com, with ABS starting at $20/kg, and will introduce more materials for your printing pleasure.

Keep an eye on the site, and expect a lot of updates over the next week or so.

Hi Jon, welcome to the forum. Sorry my earlier post sounded so negative, I'm all for diversity in the FDM field. I agree with you that leadscrew is simpler, but it also comes with negatives as well as positives: I have yet to find a fast-feedrate leadscrew setup with a good quality, smooth, anti-backlash nut that is as cheap as a printed pulley and belt. Your video shows the X-axis sticking, and I think you may have trouble with this, as the X-axis is supported only on one side.

Regarding similarity to Ultimaker, your X/Y linear motion and choice of Bowden-style extruder (as yet unseen, along with the Z-axis) is exactly like Ultimaker, it's just your drive system is different. Cost was not part of my comparison.

It's good to hear that you have experience in product development and manufacturing, I'm sure this means that you have built up contacts and relationships with suppliers that means you can source quality components more cheaply than hobbyist builders.

But while I applaud your efforts to develop a new machine, and I wish you the best of luck with it, I question your reasons for asking for cash to develop it, while there is nothing especially new about your design, and that you have no obvious track record regarding bringing products to market. I think it's fair to be sceptical of new designs that promise so much before they have even proved their ability to print. What you have produced so far is interesting, but not credible for funding. I'm happy to eat my words in a couple of weeks, if you are able to move this project along with sufficient pace.

Hi, this seems interesting, and I want to wish you luck, also recommending you switch to belt designs. the dirty secret of reprap is the open source hardware stutters and vibrates in uneven steps, this will cause about any threaded system to fail, or become miserably slow unless mach3 or some other firmware /host combination is in use. if anything play will be needed, or some spring adjustment to allow give as the motion of one axis will unevenly be trying to catch its next position in relation to the master axis.

some people may disagree with me on this,and we all are entitled to our opinion, but make sure to test it with reprap hardware before sales are made, also videos of it working will put things at bay.

also be skeptical of those Chinese sellers. when something starts to sell it becomes more expensive per item all the time,plus shipping delays, the quality issues.. wrong parts delivered to you when you have a deadline, and o crap it is cheaper to keep the wrong parts and part them out then to return ship


James

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2012 10:17AM by jamesdanielv.

I will disagree as I use the same Bresenham algorithm on HydraRaptor with lead screws running up to 150mm/s. The step timing jitters but they are microsteps, so the time for a full step has far less jitter and is averaged out by the mechanical inertia.

The thing that makes lead screws not good for FFF is the rotational inertia leading to poor acceleration compared to belts.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Seems like Jon is making good progress with his Makibox, and coming up with some interesting ideas. His latest development is a new extruder drive: [makibox.com]
This uses a worm drive-like system, but rather than drive the filament directly, it drives hobbed wheels (I assume), which in turn drives the filament. It's an elegant idea, self-cleaning, plenty of power and grip on the filament. nophead did initially have a worm-driven extruder, but his problem was a flexible coupling that debraided, and the friction that system had. This system addresses that issue.

It also overcomes some issues of current extruders, but introduces a new one: speed of retraction. I can't tell what thread he is using on the leadscrew, but it has to tie up with the thread used on the filament driver wheels. Even assuming a coarse M8 thread of 1.25mm pitch, like the Z-axis, to achieve a decent speed for retraction of 30mm/s (works for me using Slic3r with 3mm filament, 1mm retraction), the leadscrew needs to turn at 30 (mm/s) / 1.25 = 24 revolutions per second, ie nearly 1500rpm. At 16x microstepping, that's 76,800 (24 x 200 x 16) steps per second! At 4x microstepping, it's still 19,200 steps. Just like the Z-axis, it will be difficult to drive the extruder at much over 10mm/s. Constraining the side-loaded drive rod at 1500rpm is going to need some extra bearings.

If you increase the gearing and speed by using a bigger thread, that leaves fewer teeth in contact with the filament, assuming it's a 1:1 thread relationship between the leadscrew and the filament driver wheels. Using a smaller thread means even higher speeds are needed to retract. Stringing will be even worse if used with a Bowden cable, as he intends. Ultimately, it is over-geared. You could use a spindle motor to get the speed required, but that introduces problems and complexity into the firmware and motor control. Other options would be to change the gearing, but that would introduce extra complexity.

I don't want to come over as a nay-sayer, but I'm not entirely sure that Jon isn't going down a technological cul-de-sac here, interesting as it is.

Is there a reason why the extruder couldn't be simply run with full steps instead? That gives a step rate of 4800 for 30mm/s. Full steps still give a resolution of 0.00625mm when feeding in the filament.

The self cleaning aspect addresses a problem that does not exist. The hobbed drive only need cleaning if it is slipping and if it is slipping it has already failed.

The opposite will occur I think. Steel running against steel or brass produces black dust which will contaminate the filament. Normally it would need lubrication to stop it wearing away quickly, but again that would contaminate the filament.

It also isn't anything new, Andy Kirby came up with it first I think: [kirbyandco.blogspot.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 10:56AM by nophead.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I'm not sure there are any inherent problems with the current drive system other than weight or ooze (your pick!)

Honestly, I think he is vastly over-promising. I see things which will work fine with a pen, but will not hold up to produce fast or high quality prints.

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www.Fablicator.com

Just wanted to point out to all the skeptics and critics in this thread that the MakiBox A6 is now heading into full production and is still at the same low cost as Jon originally planned. Kind of interesting reading this thread from 2 years ago, and seeing how far he's progressed.

It will be interest to see when he starts shipping and once he does how well they hold up during shipping.

They don't ship assembled so I don't think that should be a problem.

I mean unassembled. My understanding is that they are coming Hong Kong post. It takes quite a while and they really know how to knock a package around. I do a a fair amount from there and do at least epacket/EMS and many times FedEx or DHL. I saw that prototype packaging after I posted that and it looks like it could handle it. but going regular post you never can tell. Perhaps he'll offer a shipping upgrade.