How Has MakerBot Supported You? Tell Your Story

Good Day All,

Give this MakerBot blog post a read. The one titled "Let's try that again."

Bre Pettis states that MakerBot Industries are long time supporters of RepRap Hobbyists and will continue to be so.

I want to hear from YOU, the RepRap hobbyist. Do you feel that MakerBot Industries has supported you as a hobbyist, and if so, how?

Bre claims he will continue to support us; so what kind of support from MakerBot Industries would you like to see in the future? If he genuinely wishes to support us, we should consider asking for support that we need. -> (RepRap Instructional Repository, printing Instructional Videos, What?)

If we let them extend an olive branch, perhaps we all win?

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Points in The Letter I did Not Like

*Don't Judge Me by My Past Statements

In a moment of candor worthy of a presidential candidate, Bre Pettis asks us not to use his past comments against him:

"To those who are trying to use my past words against me, this is a journey down an unpaved road and we are figuring it out as we go along."

Considering that most of us do not personally know the man, and we only have his words and actions to judge his ethics and motivations, I think using his past statements is fair.

Bre Pettis has literally appeared on magazine covers as a pioneer of Open Source Hardware; people who didn't just like Bre, but believed in him seem to be more than a little disappointed.

Perhaps I would have swallowed this more easily if I felt a different tone... Maybe something more about personal growth and changing opinions... but, to me... it was more about changing business strategies than changing philosophy -> This gives me an uneasy impression the being "open-source" was simply convenient because it brought them good press and not because "it was the right thing to do."

*Calls For Retribution On Those Who Are Discontent With MakerBot

Bre states "Some members of the community needs to be taken to task."

Aside from bad grammar (not that my grammar is great ), this bothers me on a few levels.

I sense some responsibility dodging on Bre's part. I feel that if more tact had been used in revealing MakerBot's "evolving" stance on Open Source Hardware, then there would not have been so much chaos.

MakerBot could have even been admired as a new pioneering example of a new class of mostly-open business practice... But that strong, tactful delivery of news Idol to fan-base never came... Instead, we get a few quasi apology/rebuttals after chaos had broken out.

I can't excuse impolite behavior on the internet, but I can understand it.

I feel that if MakerBot knew how to handle and communicate with their fan-base there would have been much less of a problem.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 11:33PM by Idolcrasher.

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FabberForge - Printing Happiness

[www.fabberforge.com]

Quote
Idolcrasher
Do you feel that MakerBot Industries has supported you as a hobbyist, and if so, how?

I have used Thingiverse a couple times, but that will soon be replaced. A website to post some stl files on is not rocket surgery or anything.

Idolcrasher, I have to agree with your analysis of Bre's blog posting.
He just doesn't seem to get the point of why people are angry, why people would get upset when a company that markets how !@#ing open source they are close sources practically everything on their latest machine, one which is derived in part from community efforts, all while being as sly and deceitful about the truth as possible.
Going from open source to closed source is not "evolution" it is a radical shift that is sure to cause waves.
He talks down on open source 3D printers as being devices primarily for "hacking on" instead of printing excellent objects. Well when people's Replicator 2's break down they will be up shit creek without a paddle,... Their only real source for proper replacement parts will be MBI and I'm sure it won't be cheap.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 02:10AM by Kt.

I never felt supported by MBI. On the contrarily, when their firmware moved from arduino ide to releases of just *.hex files with a very poor background makefile and undocumented configs, i saw that as an intent to isolate. I found that annoying, and was quite some time ago. Not to mention lacks of features.

Go figure, they are american company, what did you expect. Soon they will sue all of us for using their patents. Right now be happy coz Europe doesnt sit on large oil resources, otherwise they would come here to beat the democracy into us by hitting us in our heads with their 3D printers, while their thingverse would steal the oil underneath.

Quote

He just doesn't seem to get the point of why people are angry

Admitting to see the reason for this angriness would also admit a fundamental mistake in operations. After all, it wasn't laziness why terms of usage were changed and source codes were kept closed.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Quote
NoobMan
Right now be happy coz Europe doesnt sit on large oil resources, otherwise they would come here to beat the democracy into us by hitting us in our heads with their 3D printers, while their thingverse would steal the oil underneath.

I would ask that you take a step back from your level of discourse here. You are conflating many different issues into one statement that does not help your stance. As an American Reprapper, I too am not exactly happy with the words / actions of Makerbot / Bre and certainly do not stand behind the actions of the past several administrations. We are ALL part of a much larger Reprap community, lets not bogged down in a cultural flame war.

I've never seen any support from Bre / Makerbot in my time since sourcing, building and running my Mendel. I saw them for what they were, a corporation, and a corporation is in the business of making money. I'm not entirely surprised by how this has started to devolve and would be happy to do without corporate sponsorship of open source design sharing.

don't have a makerbot and i will not be buying one either. if i had one what i would like to see is free customer service instead of the current "service plan" that costs $350. absolute rip off and very unfair to those paying $2200 for their machine.

MAKERCARE SERVICE PLAN | $350
The Replicator™ 2 comes with an exciting new service option: the MakerCare service plan. The MakerCare Plan lasts a full year from the date of your Replicator™ 2 purchase. If anything goes wrong with your Replicator™ 2 during that time, we will provide a MakerCare Repair Kit containing any parts necessary to get you up and running. MakerCare is designed to make your Replicator™ 2 ownership experience as smooth as possible, so that if something needs to be repaired or replaced, you can sit back and let us take care of it.

MakerCare includes the same great support you get with every MakerBot product, plus the following:

MakerCare Repair Kits for simple repairs.
Free or shared shippping costs for approved part exchanges

In my experience Makerbot introduced 3D printing to the hacker/maker community as a tool and not an end unto itself. Until I saw the Cupcake, my only knowledge of FDM printing at all was the Darwin, and the opinions I'd heard about Darwin (and by association all non-professional 3D printers) led me to believe that it was that it was very experimental and not intended for the casual hobbyist.

Thingiverse, TOS or motives withstanding, has been useful to me as it's been the de-facto community repo for these projects. I agree with others that it can be replaced relatively easily, and with better functionality (versioning, standard SCM tool support, community curation to avoid a flood of "TEST" Tinkercad models).

That said, I feel the same way about MakerBot the same way I feel about Apple: I don't like some of their business practices and won't be purchasing their products myself, but I wouldn't criticize anyone for wanting/owning one and might even recommend them to someone that wants a 3D printer that works out of the box.

I love this.

MAKERCARE SERVICE PLAN | $350
The Replicator™ 2 comes with an exciting new service option: the MakerCare service plan. The MakerCare Plan lasts a full year from the date of your Replicator™ 2 purchase. If anything goes wrong with your Replicator™ 2 during that time, we will provide a MakerCare Repair Kit containing any parts necessary to get you up and running. MakerCare is designed to make your Replicator™ 2 ownership experience as smooth as possible, so that if something needs to be repaired or replaced, you can sit back and let us take care of it.

WTF?

Someone over at MBI need to get their shit together in a hurry.

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

When the price on a Replicator 2 equivalent machine drops to $999 they will have a winner on their hands.

Until then... Use the extra money to learn the skills and buy the tools to build your own. $2200 for a pre-built no heat-bed (aka no ABS) seems steep.

Can you imagine the reprap you could make for $2200?

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Not responsibly at least

I understand that carpenters (woodworkers) don't usually forge their own saws before starting a job; they usually buy their tools from a manufacturer...

Therefore, I can easily imagine there are folks out there who would like to use 3D printers and NOT build them...

But at a $2500+ price range (assuming you buy the MB protection) I just don't know if it is worth it...

Renting a stratasys MOJO might make more sense at that price range... I just don't know, as I am apparently not a "pro-sumer"

I'm starting to believe the overpricing was a PR / marketing stunt.
Sort of... let's make it look like an elite, quality product by pricing it high, but let's still keep it under half the price of "big-player" competitors.

Back on topic, though... Maybe Bre was referring to popularization of RepRap as a "favour"?
Although MBIs PR, from what i've seen, always strived to make it look like MakerBot "invented" the damned concept.

No idea.

What big tech evolutions did MakerBot create that were adopted by the RepRap community?

*headscratching*

Sanguino?

Idolcrasher Wrote:
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> What big tech evolutions did MakerBot create that
> were adopted by the RepRap community?

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Hmmm... Went to that site last week and everything was pulled down... Is it back up now?

So a debatably not that popular RAMPS derivative is on the list... What else?

keithCl Wrote:
> MAKERCARE SERVICE PLAN | $350
> The Replicator™ 2 comes with an exciting new
> service option: the MakerCare service plan. The
> MakerCare Plan lasts a full year from the date of
> your Replicator™ 2 purchase. If anything goes
> wrong with your Replicator™ 2 during that time,
> we will provide a MakerCare Repair Kit containing
> any parts necessary to get you up and running.
> MakerCare is designed to make your Replicator™ 2
> ownership experience as smooth as possible, so
> that if something needs to be repaired or
> replaced, you can sit back and let us take care of
> it.
>
> MakerCare includes the same great support you get
> with every MakerBot product, plus the following:
>
> MakerCare Repair Kits for simple repairs.
> Free or shared shippping costs for approved part
> exchanges

Now I may be just an ingorant Irishman.. But is this not a 1 year warranty with a bucket of spares and telephone support for $350?.. And you have to do the reapir yourself.

Seriously?

I know America tends to be a bit consumer hostile, but surely, you guys have got round to insisting on at least a year of free parts and labour repairs..

SOP over here.. 1-2 years free parts and labour, with pickup paid for by vendor or reimbursed in full. No possibly co paying if they feel like it.. Courior picks up from agreed address on agreed day, and item is couriered back once fixed.
For online purchases that are not personalised, 7 working days unconditional cooling off from delivery.

This just gets funnier as time goes on.

thanks for the contribution John. good to see another Irishman on here fighting the cause.

Makerbot screwed up and as a result lost their customers/prospective customers. selling a machine with a very good chance of needing support from the manufacturer then charge for that support is ridiculous.

Looking forward to getting involved in the new site that'll replace thingiverse. Only a matter of time until this site is at the forefront.

Thingiverse will not be changing their terms anytime soon(2013) so expect a large drop off of contributors. the site will probably keep users but not as many as will drop off.

I also expect a membership fee to be part of thingiverse or even an itunes style charge for every download. Mark my words this stuff is on the way!!!!

Makerbot investors WILL expect new revenue streams so either get out your credit card or get involved in one of the new thingiverse alternatives out there.

Funny thing,

I started my site www.fabberforge.com as a thing sharing site, and even setup a forum, and file deposit setup.

The site was costing a fairly low fee for me, but I only had a handful of folks sign up... Then I left for a deployment and took down the site because of the lack of interest...

I pretty much just blog there now... Should I attempt to setup the site again?

sounds good idolcrasher. There are a few being developed or in demo stages but I'm not sure how far along they are.
I would be willing to donate time to help you out. I'm only a beginner web developer so my skills are a little limited but i don't mind getting my fingers dirty and putting the time in.

Awesome,

Thanks much man.

I will keep you posted as I negotiate re-opening those features on the site

Cool dude.

Please do keep me posted

Cheers

Idolcrasher Wrote:
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> So a debatably not that popular RAMPS derivative
> is on the list... What else?

Sanguino is not a RAMPS derivative. It came well before RAMPS. However, I would say that the Sanguino was a contribution of Zach rather than MakerBot.

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Help improve the RepRap wiki! Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing. Anyone can edit the wiki!

Hey Idol, im in for helping out however i could with your file site.

Thanks much

Will let you know

To reply the original topic question, a quote from Jonathan Palecek :

Quote
J.P.
Perhaps the single greatest contribution by Makerbot to the RepRap project was developing a stronger 3D printing community, bringing in new talent to the RepRap project.

Although I lack statistical data about those new talents brought in the reprap area by the mere existence of makerbot, I believe this sentence is true. Maybe removing "greatest" then

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

I think that DeuxVis' point is absolutely correct. Their marketing of 3D printing is what makerbot has contributed. And honestly that's what drew me into this hobby - seeing a makerbot make stuff.

Josef Prusa talked about the complete lack of reprap marketing yesterday at OHS. Perhaps he is right.

And it seems to me that marketing is Makerbot's true strength, not hardware. After all, many repraps will out-perform the replicator 2 fairly easily. Why doesn't the community leverage Makerbot? Why doesn't Makerbot leverage the community? Why can't we combine our machines with their marketing? Something like quirky.com maybe. Win-Win.

But Nate from sparkfun makes an interesting point. [www.youtube.com]

Open source companies have to innovate much faster then their closed-source competitors to stay relevant. And let's be honest, MBI has done very little of that lately. Iteration yes, innovation, no.

Too bad no one would be on board for such an idea - not after the VC investment anyway...

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

I know I would like to see cooperation and collaboration...

Maybe that is where the Ubuntu type concept comes in...

There is no us right now. Just a group of fans of a project.

Linux has derivative groups; RedHat, Ubuntu etc.

I think that RepRap could use some solid branches too.

Branches that have standard practices and common ideas...

I am not talking about businesses... I am talking about concentrated projects (open source projects) with goals...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2012 01:02PM by Idolcrasher.

akhlut Wrote:
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> And it seems to me that marketing is Makerbot's
> true strength, not hardware.

Maybe they should rebrand themselves into Marketbot?

So I was at Makerfaire NYC today, and had some great discussions with quite a few people in the 3D printing community. I'm posting here because what I saw has a direct relationship to this topic.

I saw a huge amount of enthusiasm today, especially around 3D printing. There was a ridiculous amount of interest, and the sheer variety of 3D printers on display today was impressive. The technological skills on display were impressive. And most of all the machines were impressive. But for all that I saw what really disturbed me was the market monopoly the Makerbot displayed today. Let me explain what I mean before everyone gets fussy.

Makerbot is the defacto player in the maker sub-culture. This was evident from the moment I walked into Makerfaire. Every booth I visited that had anything even remotely to do with 3D printing (ex printer-focused booths) had a makerbot, maybe two. Not another machine was to be seen. That was not by accident, but rather by design. By placing their product in these locations it sends a signal to consumers that the replicator (and by extension the replicator 2) is the defacto printer that these companies go to. Having a replicator in other vendors' booths certainly seemed like an endorsement - it sure felt like one. My congratulations to Mr. Pettis on his fine marketing department. As a result his table was swarmed (at least when I went by). I wanted to grab people by the shoulders and turn them toward the better machines 3 ft behind them. But perception is reality - and I think a lot of people came away today with the idea that makerbot is the end-all-be-all of 3D printing.

Prusa is right, we need a serious maketing effort. And I fundamentally disagree with the notion that we are anything but a collective. Reprap without US is nothing.

So then the question becomes, how do we as a collective accomplish this? I think that's what asking in his OHS talk the other day. How can a collective with competing interests unify in a common cause? I'm not sure. But I do know that we need to do something. If we do nothing we will be relegated to the dustbin of history - many great ideas before this have been cast aside for the simple reason of economic expediency.

I also had a chat with Nate of Sparkfun today. It strikes me that his company is what Makerbot should have been. Sparkfun does innovate, but the also co-opt. Innovation within a fixed pool of individuals cannot continue ad-infinitum. Rather alternate experience coupled with new technology leads to innovation. Sparkfun realizes this. They get it. They don't have to innovate forever - but recognize innovative OSH and offer it to a larger audience. They are fantastic at this. They are fantastic at giving back to the community as well.

But what if Makerbot had had the vision 2 years ago to realize that their product is crap. What if they had had the vision to offer open source kits like the Prusa or MendelMax? I think that what we would be looking at a very different hardware landscape today. It makes me sad to see Makerbot's superior marketing (the best I saw at MakerFaire today) harnessed to that hunk of shit Replicator.

I say this because while the evolutionary tactic that we use may be superior in producing innovative machines, I fear it may not be enough. Because in the market superior does not always win. Matter of fact I can think of a few examples,but one that stands out is Betamax. For all you young people, go google it.

Gotta run - dinner in Manhattan is calling!

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]