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Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer

Posted by Idolcrasher 
Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 04, 2012 06:36PM
Here is a way to defeat curling/warping in your prints.

The term might be taken, but I call it a "Brim." If anyone wants to coin a new term for this, make a suggestion winking smiley

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Using the program Slic3r I add a "skirt" of 5 to 15 loops at a "zero" millimeter distance from the object I am printing.
[slic3r.org]

This adds a brim (like a cowboy hat winking smiley ) that keeps the object "spot welded" to the plate and absolutely stops all warping and curling.

The additional surface area, combined with the rounding of sharp points on the bottom layer denies any possibility of curling or warping from the bed.

To remove the brim, you need simply fold the plastic back and forth, and it snaps off smiling smiley

I hope to see this method implemented in the various slicing programs; as its own unique feature.

Try printing with a Brim today, and see if it helps the quality of your prints winking smiley

-Happy Printing

IdolCrasher

www.fabberforge.com

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 07:01PM by Idolcrasher.
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 04, 2012 06:40PM
I've been experimenting with the same technique - with great success I might add. Still minor lift here and there, but the extra plastic really helps with warping.


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 04, 2012 06:47PM
Excellent! Great idea.
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 04, 2012 06:48PM
Nice! I just added special little lugs onto my new quick-fit mini-Extruder design to help solve that exact same issue.

I shall try the 'Brim' setting next time! Thanks.


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 05, 2012 02:40PM
Good idea to automate the process, I'll definitely give it a try next time I print something huge (mario shell i'm looking at you) smiling smiley
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 05, 2012 04:32PM
I print on glass with PLA and don't get any lift but that could be useful in the future for tiny prints


__________________________________________________________________________
Experimenting in 3D in New Zealand
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 06, 2012 02:56PM
Bravo IdolCrasher. I've been going nuts trying to print this long, thin, and tall bracket for work and I couldn't get it to stop lifting. After adding "The Brim" it worked on the first try.
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 06, 2012 05:55PM
I like it! "The Brim" is a good name for it! smiling smiley


[numbersixreprap.blogspot.com]
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 07, 2012 07:09AM
Glad you gents found it useful! winking smiley

I have been using cheap Chinese filament (it lifts terribly even on hot glass) I needed to defeat some big lift/warp/curling troubles.

So after two weeks of frustration, I reverted from a glass plate back to a blue tape surface and came up with "the brim"

The adhesion is VERY strong with this method.

It was the use of cheap filament that drove me to this; but I now know this is a viable option to defeat curling in "tricky" prints, even with expensive/high quality faberdashery filament smiling smiley

I am happy to announce that I can now print with cheap filament with impunity!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2012 07:24AM by Idolcrasher.
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 07, 2012 07:19AM
@purple kerbie, it makes my day to know it helped your print! That's great man!
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 07, 2012 10:29AM
Super like, IdolCrasher!!! You're the man!
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 07, 2012 04:13PM
What name do you gents like better? "The Brim" or "The Snowshoe"?
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 07, 2012 04:40PM
I vote for "Idol Brim".


--
-Nudel
Blog with RepRap Comic
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 08, 2012 07:49AM
I used this technique last night on an X shaped object that was skinny and tall with long legs that would caused warping before. Fixed it for this part! Sorry no pictures yet as it is a part I have in development (not a printer part but just something for my own use)


Ryan
Quality Engineer & Hobbyist
thingsandtrains.blogspot.com
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 08, 2012 09:25AM
The brim, definitely.


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 09, 2012 01:44AM
@banthafodder Very cool. Glad it helped your print! I would love to see a pic when your object is ready for public consumption smiling smiley
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 09, 2012 07:59AM
This is a very good idea which I've also used in the past. But does't this have a name already? It's called a skirt in both slic3r and skeinforge. smiling smiley
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 09, 2012 08:11AM
I look at this as an "off-label" use of the Slic3r skirt function. I do indeed use the skirt function to make the brim.

The skirt function has been used primarily as a means to prime the nozzle; Most people do not use the skirt function to fight warping. Most people do not use a skirt 15 loops thick attached to to the object winking smiley

I stumbled upon this by trial and error; and it looks like you and I are probably not the only people who have experimented with this.

I am happy to get the word out though! When I figured this out, I was able to use it to solve many wonky curling, lifting, warping problems.

I hope to see the slicing programs adopt a "brim" function as a standalone feature, so that we can have a "skirt" to prime the nozzle, and a "brim" to defeat curling, warping and lifting.

Happy Printing smiling smiley

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2012 08:16AM by Idolcrasher.
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 09, 2012 10:31AM
Brimming seems like a nice addition to slicers. Hope it will be somewhere in the advanced section to avoid overwelming (new) users with features. "Brim all objects","number of brim loops (0= equal to skirt)" and "brim speed (0 = equal to skirt)" already add three parameters.
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 09, 2012 09:04PM
@ Idolcracher

Finally posted the update to my blog after getting all my parts in place and the final designs done. If you look at the bottom of post titles "Farming meets Engineering" you will see one of my parts during the print with a "brim" on it.


Ryan
Quality Engineer & Hobbyist
thingsandtrains.blogspot.com
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 09, 2012 09:12PM
banthafodder7400 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Idolcracher
>
> Finally posted the update to my blog after getting
> all my parts in place and the final designs done.
> If you look at the bottom of post titles "Farming
> meets Engineering" you will see one of my parts
> during the print with a "brim" on it.



Awesome man! I like your Blog too! http://thingsandtrains.blogspot.com/

A reprap blog with an agricultural/biological theme winking smiley

I am going to read your blog and then "add your biological and technological distinctiveness" to my own winking smiley
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 11, 2012 04:08AM
I used the 'Brim' setting in my number counter, 150mm x 150mm single print, did the job perfectly, thanks!






[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 11, 2012 04:13PM
Clever !
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 11, 2012 07:57PM
Does it still work with a glass covered heated bed? After some great warp-free prints past few weeks, I finally did a large plate and had some lifting, I'm in love with how easy the prints are to remove from the glass after it cools but I'd rather not spend another 15 continuous hours only to find out it's only suitable for printing on tape. smiling bouncing smiley
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 11, 2012 08:33PM
Mazaw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does it still work with a glass covered heated
> bed? After some great warp-free prints past few
> weeks, I finally did a large plate and had some
> lifting, I'm in love with how easy the prints are
> to remove from the glass after it cools but I'd
> rather not spend another 15 continuous hours only
> to find out it's only suitable for printing on
> tape. smiling bouncing smiley


Yup, it still works wonders on glass. I reverted back to blue tape because the cheap Chinese filament I was using would not stick to glass at all.

The brim will defeat warping on glass and smooth surfaces as well.

I now put brims on just about all my prints; even when printing easy objects with high-quality filament.

Why waste my time with warped prints anymore?
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 11, 2012 08:36PM
richrap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I used the 'Brim' setting in my number counter,
> 150mm x 150mm single print, did the job perfectly,
> thanks!
>
> [3.bp.blogspot.com]
> AAAAAAAABbM/7x_aazB69TU/s400/Brim_setting_100Block
> .jpg
>
> [4.bp.blogspot.com]
> AAAAAAAABbw/6UD1J_y89lI/s640/Very_Pink.jpg

Wow,

I am flattered to hear I had anything to contribute to RichRap winking smiley

That's great!

@RichRap I am actually going through your whole blog right now; picking up all the lessons learned I can! Thanks for your great Blog!
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 13, 2012 05:39AM
Ok, let's take a reality check here. Yes, "the brim" will offer some extra adhesion for the object's first layer. SOME. Not infinite. The reality has not changed, as soon as the warping forces exceed the grip, the object will rip the brim off the build plate and warp. Like this:



The claims put forth in the first message, like absolutely stops all warping and curling are not true. Don't take me wrong, I wish they were! And even in the pictured object, the brim delayed the warping for so long that I ended up with an usable object, unlike on my first try without the brim. But warping is still here with us and requires consideration of what can be printed from what.
Attachments:
open | download - 7368045606_c797155efb.jpg (57.3 KB)
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 13, 2012 06:04PM
I think the brim with a few other conditions is great. Before most prints I clean my kapton tape, then I put a coating of my version of ABS juice (slightly milder than pure acetone but seems to work) and I use the brim. All of these factors help ensure that I dont waste hours printing a part.


Ryan
Quality Engineer & Hobbyist
thingsandtrains.blogspot.com
Re: Cure for The Common Curling: "The Brim" smileys with beer
June 14, 2012 05:55AM
ttsalo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> as soon as the warping
> forces exceed the grip, the object will rip the
> brim off the build plate and warp. Like this:
>
What part are you printing, it does not look like it should be warping from that photo, I would like to give it a try on heated mirror-glass.
Just checking you are printing in PLA? and onto PET tape?


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Hello!

I also have been struggling with warping in the last days (It's been like two-three weeks since I built my Prusa, and a week since I'm printing ABS).

I printed two biggish prints yesterday, with a 10 loop brim, and there was no warping whatsoever.
(on a 110 C heated glass with kapton.) Before this virtually all my prints had some warping, except for the very small ones (e.g. a pulley).

So I'm all for the brim, it's a good idea!
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