Why no love for the ORD Hadron?

Hi Everyone,
I am thinking about building my second printer after building a prusa v1 and I was trying to decide what to go with. I want something with the possibility of adding a second or third extruder and just to tinker around with it in general. I also want something that can produce very high resolution prints with minimal wobble, etc. I was looking at a mendel90 or prusa i3 because I thought the 90 degree frame would add to stability but I have since come across some posts that are critical of stability for the aluminum plate i3 (not sure how the ceemecnc version would compare). Is this something I need to think about for these designs?

After looking at those options and trying to find something even more rigid I came across the Ord Hadron. This seems super stable because it is all linear rails and since it is in a 90 degree orientation it should be more/about as stable than the mendel max, right? You can buy a kit for $500 which is much cheaper than the linear rail mendel max 2.0 so I don't quite understand why more people aren't excited about it. Is there something I am missing here? I haven't heard a single big name in the community endorse one of these.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2013 12:09PM by ambiguousphoton.

Because the designer isn't a big participant in the RepRap community, and because it's designed to not use any printed parts. Therefore, it's not really a RepRap. Still a pretty good 3D printer though.

I tried making a printable version of this design. It didn't go well, primarily because it's difficult to make flat plates made out of PLA behave the same as AL plates - lots of ribs and design changes needed, and they still take a set over time. Also, the eccentric spacers put a lot of pressure on a very small amount of area around the holes. This works ok for AL but tends to crush the plastic.

The Ord bot looks like a decent enough printer but there are dozens, if not hundreds of printers on the market, so they can't all be favourites. The Ord bot seems to have limited supply, where would you buy one?

keling has the mechanicals
[www.automationtechnologiesinc.com]

I just checked thier web site:

For $500 they're just selling an unassembled frame, with motors - no hot end - no electronics - no heated bed - no support for any of those things - none of the associated wiring etc... Basically a bag of frame parts for $500.

Anyone capable of putting together all of the missing stuff is likely capable of building thier own frame.

I looked at their video on Youtube, and it prints fast - but then they're using 62oz motors.

There is a lot more to making good prints than just a sturdy frame and fast motors....

@Tekwizard

You missed the part where the extrusion is specifically designed for linear motion. So no, you couldn't just "build your own frame" unless you found a second source for the extrusion. The whole point of this kit is to provide the hard to find stuff, and let people finish it out as they like. It's not *supposed* to be a complete kit.

My biggest issue with using Makerslide is supply chain issues - it's a niche product so there's no guarantee it will be available in the future. Other than that it's a good linear motion system. The design is open source, but getting your own extrusion die made is... let's say nontrivial.

That's a good point about the supply chain issues. I see that reprapdiscount sells a kit but it wasn't really clear to me where she was getting the makerslide in the first place because even the official website was sold out.
[forums.reprap.org]
[store.makerslide.com]
Thanks for the automation store link, they seem to be even cheaper than reprapdiscount. Does anyone have any experience with purchasing from them?

There seems to be more discussion about the ord over on this site They had a post where they compare prints and they seem to be quite nice and on par with richrap's stuff. I know that a printer is more than a sturdy frame and a fast motor but since extruders and hot ends have gotten quite reliable (ie jhead or makergear) everything else is just firmware tweaking right? I was just hoping to find the sturdiest frame so I didn't have to worry about z wobbling or any issues like that which come down to the mechanical portion. I know the mendel max is also quite rigid, but doesn't that suffer from the issue that a triangle is strong in the direction that the x axis does not move? Either way, thanks for the input!

The guy who runs buildlog (Bart) is the one who came up with the design.

The initial production runs of the extrusion and other parts were coordinated by Bart. After they were complete and initial demand was satisfied, he passed control of the die to Inventables. Inventables didn't communicate how they were going to do production runs very well (IMHO), which led to a lot of confusion, long waits, and people holding off on orders after a couple additional runs. After this I kind of lost track of the whole thing since I had all the parts I needed.

I think either the RRD people acquired the original extrusion die from Inventables, or they had an additional one made.

It looks like Inventables has some in stock here: [www.inventables.com] Or at least they are no longer advertising it as a pre-order.

tl;dr: The original makerslide website will probably never been in stock again, because Bart doesn't want to be involved in order fulfillment. Don't use those prices as a basis for comparison, because Bart set those prices extremely low initially to help boost interest.

Tri-Color Mendel From RepRap Pro

I just checked out this machine because of this thread and I have to say I am quite impressed. It looks like one of the most linear designs I have seen. With some more development I am sure this machine could go quite far.

Thank you for bringing up the reprap pro tri color. I was looking at that machine and I like the tri color part but I notice that it is essentially unchanged from the prusa mendel as far as the construction. Does the two bottom braces that they added firm up the frame enough that it would be on par with a mendel max or does the fact that they use the prusa mendel indicate that it is firm enough that there is no point going further?

Incidentally I did just purchase a rumba board from the indiegogo campaign so I am all set with a tri color capable electronics set, I was mostly thinking about what the ideal mechanics are and finding a extruder holder that could hold 3 nozzles at some point in the future. Wouldn't the ideal be something that didn't flex with 3 direct extruders? I believe the bowden tubes used in the reprap pro are leaky which is why it needs a separate wiper structure that is built along with it.

EDIT: This TK0 looks mouthwateringly good:
[devel.lulzbot.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2013 06:26PM by ambiguousphoton.

crispy1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Tekwizard
>
> You missed the part where the extrusion is
> specifically designed for linear motion. So no,
> you couldn't just "build your own frame" unless
> you found a second source for the extrusion. The
> whole point of this kit is to provide the hard to
> find stuff, and let people finish it out as they
> like. It's not *supposed* to be a complete kit.


I didn't say it wasn't a unique design, I said that most of the people capable of putting all of the rest of the system together are probably capable of building thier own frame. I don't believe that it is worth paying $500 for a custom made extruded metal design. I believe that there are many other options available that work very well for 3d printing that do not require such a narrow supply source, and a very expensive frame.I didn't see any performance virtues in the video that I could attribute to a superior frame design. A well put together Prusa mendal can print with that accuracy, and the build speed was more dependant upon the flow rate of the hot end.

I have been using my Ordbot since october last year. I bought one of the ATI kits which i think were sourced from the designer Bart. Mine has been largely trouble free. At the time the build platform kit was $399 plus postage, and I ended up building a pretty reliable printer for less than $800.

I have seen some of RRD's ordbot parts, and as mentioned above they have found local sources for all parts. The bits I have seen and tried on my own printer are a direct swap from the original and good ati kit. I havent seen the Makerslide or the eccentric nuts, which are both important in the reliability of the overall design, but the rest looks equivalent, and some of the anodized alu pieces look better than my original ATI parts.

The ordbot platfrom itself is very stable, is very open in its design, and is easily transportable.

I am sure when CNY is over and RRD start shipping out the ordbot kits we will see more of them available as I believe they have a good chain of supply of these parts. I am waiting on the remaining parts to complete the smaller version as a more portable printer, and when I have enough bits will post a buildlog and more accurate opinion on these forums.

GaZ

We bought a Ord Hadron and have been surprised by how well it really works.

Purchased manly to make quick parts for testing, we have done some models on it. This is one test we did:

[www.ustream.tv]

We could do that test now with prob. 5 -10 x quality improvement on the printer, just from experience with it.

Note: in the For Sale Forums a company in China is selling these at a decent price.......its work a look see.

gazob Wrote:

> I have seen some of RRD's ordbot parts, and as
> mentioned above they have found local sources for
> all parts. The bits I have seen and tried on my
> own printer are a direct swap from the original
> and good ati kit. I havent seen the Makerslide or
> the eccentric nuts, which are both important in
> the reliability of the overall design, but the
> rest looks equivalent, and some of the anodized
> alu pieces look better than my original ATI
> parts.


Why are you having to source parts locally for your Ordbot already?
Is it falling apart that quickly?
I have a Mendal that I've been using for half a year now, and nothing has failed on it.

Has anyone found a best reliable source for the frame on the Ord Hadron? Looking to buy under 400$ if possible please advise

I have recently built an OrdBot Hadron and I am about 6 months down the line with it now. I live in the UK and I imported the kit from ATI in the US. There are I think only two companies supplying the kits. That is ATI (Automation Technologies Inc) and RepRap Discount in HongKong. Both sell quality parts. There is also a guy in the US that sells fully assembled and calibrated OrdBots called Punchtec. He trades as Panchybot on Ebay.

The design has roots in CNC routers and laser cutters. It is also based on a previous smaller design, the Quantum. I chose it because I was impressed with its mechanical design. It is very rigid and uses nema 17 motors. It can print very fast at 400mm/sec. It uses 4 lengths of Makerslide and one Misumi extrusion. A lot of the bolts and fittings are Misumi. The Makerslide extrusion with its integral V rails is a nice neat solution. Unfortunately it is not readily available in Europe. I think it would work out cheaper to buy a kit rather than the individual parts seperately.

I had no experience at all with 3D printers and I logged about 200 hours assembling and getting it to work. There was no support at all from ATI. I was just directed towards Bart Drings website:

[www.buildlog.net]

I am glad I built it myself as I learnt a great deal. The design lends itself to modding and upgrading. Basically a standard arduino/ramps controller, 200 x 200 heater bed and any extruder you want. I have modded mine by fitting twin Bowden Wade extruders and acme threaded rods. There are lots of parts to make for the OrdBot on thingiverse.