What size filament can we go down to?

I found some nice Nylon I want to use but the largest filament size is 1.2mm and I am wondering how low can we go with the stuff that is out there? What would I need to change to go smaller? I have seem filaments go down below .5mm which is what I would use if I were using a .1mm head but I digress.

Any ideas and frankly 1.2mm Nylon I can get a five pound spool ~1645 meters for 52 US dollars which is not bad ($12.50 for 330 meters). I can't find any in colors but printing with Nylon is pretty cool though the head has to heat up to 320c to extrude it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2012 06:03PM by Dark Alchemist.

The only thing that needs to change is the PTFE liner in your hot end, if it has one. Also, the filament will need to be supported entirely into the hot end so it doesn't buckle.

I would recommend against printing nylon without a fume hood or extractor.

Yeah, I am trying to figure out how to support the hot end and the PTFE liner. I need something that can handle those newer temps.

You need to get rid of the PTFE if you want to go to higher temperatures as it goes soft much above 250C.

The way to do it is by using a stainless steel tube with a thin wall as an insulator. To get round the fact it is not slippery it needs an outwards taper to act like a mould draft angle. See [hydraraptor.blogspot.co.uk]. That uses PTFE on the outside for insulation but it could be omitted or replaced with a high temperature insulator like glass wool.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

nophead Wrote:
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> You need to get rid of the PTFE if you want to go
> to higher temperatures as it goes soft much above
> 250C.
>
> The way to do it is by using a stainless steel
> tube with a thin wall as an insulator. To get
> round the fact it is not slippery it needs an
> outwards taper to act like a mould draft angle.
> See
> [hydraraptor.blogspot.co.uk]
> omise-extruder.html. That uses PTFE on the outside
> for insulation but it could be omitted or replaced
> with a high temperature insulator like glass wool.

I like those plans a lot so I will look around for the parts to make one. Figure 12v at 14.7w should take me to 320c.

Off the subject but why in the world does the quote system here look like something from a newsgroup when you can use the [ quote][ /quote] by hand? Seems the quote button should work like every other forum on the planet but it doesn't.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Off the subject but why in the world does the
> quote system here look like something from a
> newsgroup when you can use the [ quote][ /quote]
> by hand? Seems the quote button should work like
> every other forum on the planet but it doesn't.

I don't know why, and it has irritated me ever since I've been a member of this forum.

Maybe try posing the question in Forum Administration.

nophead said:
---------------------
>To get round the fact it is not slippery it needs an outwards taper to act like a mould draft angle.

Where can one get such tapering bits?

I ground one 3mm drill bit with an angle to create a 1.5 - 3mm taper but it needs more work along the flutes otherwise the friction turns the stainless steel barrel red and, if held for long it deforms it due to the high temperature developed.

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--------------------------------------------------------
3D extruder performance tests
dzach's ORDbot Hadron build

NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Off the subject but why in the world does the
> > quote system here look like something from a
> > newsgroup when you can use the [ quote][
> /quote]
> > by hand? Seems the quote button should work
> like
> > every other forum on the planet but it doesn't.
>
> I don't know why, and it has irritated me ever
> since I've been a member of this forum.
>
> Maybe try posing the question in Forum
> Administration.


Done.

Check around online like mcmaster carr or mscdirect.com and look for a tapered reamer. You drill out to your small dia and ream the remaining wall to the larger dia

johnoly99 Wrote:
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> Check around online like mcmaster carr or
> mscdirect.com and look for a tapered reamer. You
> drill out to your small dia and ream the remaining
> wall to the larger dia
Yep, Radio Shack used to have those years ago and I still have mine (made it through the 2006 apartment fire where I lost 60% of my stuff). I think they are expensive these days but oh what a valuable tool they are. Yep, even expensive on ebay it seems.

£2.84 doesn't seem expensive: to me: [www.toolstation.com]

If you Google "tapered reamer" you will find them all over the place.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

nophead Wrote:
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> £2.84 doesn't seem expensive: to me:
> [www.toolstation.com]
>
> If you Google "tapered reamer" you will find them
> all over the place.


Woohoo, that is exactly like the one I have from eons ago and about the same price with current currency exchange rates. I want another myself so I will look deeper but for one in the states.

Over here the best I can find would be 4 pounds 46p so slightly more but, then again, no VAT so I guess about the same.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2012 06:47AM by Dark Alchemist.

Thanks!

The HSS ones might be a little more expensive than the carbon steel ones thought. The barrel is stainless steel.

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--------------------------------------------------------
3D extruder performance tests
dzach's ORDbot Hadron build

I read that HSS is a dieing breed and to go to Carbon Steel for my tools.

If melting nylon produces hydrochloric acid, wouldn't this bite the inside of the hot end and possibly other hardware on the machine?

Besides that simple concern, dioxins are a persistent pollutant and very bad for the environment, so even with a fume extractor, we should avoid melting nylon.

Nylon is said to produce hydrogen cyanide. I think it is PVC that produces hydrochloric acid.

I am not a chemist!

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Actually if you keep Nylon below its breakdown temp of 300 C it won't emit any harmful chemicals. I run Nylon at 230 C and it sticks to itself very well. It is very hard to separate the layers. For bigger parts where the layers have more time to cool, you will want to print at a higher temperature. It doesn't actually weld the layers together, but suprisingly has almost the same strength. I think it is because Nylon gets really soft even before its melting point.

One tip though, you will want to get a nozzle with a longer orifice than normal. Nylon is much less viscous than ABS or PLA, so it oozes with a normal nozzle.

Also, you will need to dry it before printing, or else you will get a bunch of steam bubbling in your filament. Stick it in a toaster oven for a couple hours at 100 C and it will be dry enough. Store it in a ziploc when not using it.

If you want Nylon in a very cheap form, here is a link for some weed eater line:
[www.amazon.com]
This is what I use and it works pretty well.

galaxyman7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually if you keep Nylon below its breakdown
> temp of 300 C it won't emit any harmful chemicals.
> I run Nylon at 230 C and it sticks to itself very
> well. It is very hard to separate the layers. For
> bigger parts where the layers have more time to
> cool, you will want to print at a higher
> temperature. It doesn't actually weld the layers
> together, but suprisingly has almost the same
> strength. I think it is because Nylon gets really
> soft even before its melting point.
>
> One tip though, you will want to get a nozzle with
> a longer orifice than normal. Nylon is much less
> viscous than ABS or PLA, so it oozes with a normal
> nozzle.
>
> Also, you will need to dry it before printing, or
> else you will get a bunch of steam bubbling in
> your filament. Stick it in a toaster oven for a
> couple hours at 100 C and it will be dry enough.
> Store it in a ziploc when not using it.
>
> If you want Nylon in a very cheap form, here is a
> link for some weed eater line:
> [www.amazon.com]
> 21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
> This is what I use and it works pretty well.

Smaller stuff (1.2mm vs your 2.667mm weed whacker line) at [www.amazon.com] more expensive, in clear, and being smaller may have some advantages.

galaxyman7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want Nylon in a very cheap form, here is a
> link for some weed eater line:
> [www.amazon.com]
> 21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
> This is what I use and it works pretty well.

Are you sure that it is actually nylon?

NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> galaxyman7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you want Nylon in a very cheap form, here is
> a
> > link for some weed eater line:
> >
> [www.amazon.com]
>
> > 21431760_M2T1_SC_dp_1
> > This is what I use and it works pretty well.
>
> Are you sure that it is actually nylon?
Red color, round shaped line made from sturdy nylon components which does not mean 100% pure nylon as the weed whacker line I have used has other stuff in it as well otherwise I would be eating my line left and right (more so than I already do).

Ya it is interesting because the "other components" seem to give it a lower melting point. By the way, I have extruded probably around 10 m of the stuff and it hasn't harmed my extruder at all.

galaxyman7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ya it is interesting because the "other
> components" seem to give it a lower melting point.
> By the way, I have extruded probably around 10 m
> of the stuff and it hasn't harmed my extruder at
> all.
What is the finished quality and strength and does it have that nice oily Nylon texture?

The quality is very good if you dry the filament. Then you won't get any bubbles in the print. I have printed using 0.1 mm layers and it came out great. If you don't dry it, it will create a foamy molten plastic that expands alot, which is fine if you don't care what the part looks like. You will have to turn down the extrusion ratio so it doesn't overfill.

The only thing that annoys me is the warping of the print and the oozing of the nozzle. I get some blobs here and there because of the ooze. I am going to try to fix the warping using some perfboard or something. I am trying to get a nozzle with a longer orifice to reduce the ooze.

As for the strength of the part, I would say it is twice as strong as my ABS prints, and more flexible too. The layer adhesion is very good if you print it at the right temperature. 230 C seems to work very well, but I would like to go up to 240 C if not for the ooze.