DeltaBot Printers (Rostock) - Prusa Killer or Passing Fad?

Read about the amazing looking Rostock printer here: Rostock On Thingiverse , Rostock On RepRap Wiki



The Rostock is a snazzy "unconventional" RepRap printer, with a stationary build bed and no threaded rods. Instead, it uses 3 pulley/belt controlled arms to position it's hot end anywhere in 3D space; FAST!

A huge number of people have "liked" the Rostock design on Thingiverse, to include the RepRap "All Father" himself: Adrian Bowyer.

A "Rostock" or Delta-Style printer will be my next printer build (No. 4) no question. I am slightly giddy at the thought of not having to sling the weight of a heated bed around; fantastic!

I am curious to see if the Rostock (or another Delta Bot Design) will be made "official" and appear on the front page of the RepRap site.

What are your thoughts? Is the Rostock the Prusa Killer we have been waiting for? Or is it just another random RepRap in a sea of forgettable home brew machines?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 03:00AM by Idolcrasher.

Idolcrasher Wrote:
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> Is the Rostock the Prusa
> Killer we have been waiting for?

Did we?

The Rostock is an infant at the moment, and when more mature should be able to battle with the best of them.
However RepRap is not just one single direction, different criteria motivate different people to build different bots. If we are talking about Prusa in particular, Version 3 (i3) is just on the horizon, it is neat and compact and has incorporated some of the nicer features seen on some of the new printers released this year (there has been many). This should appeal to new builders due to its simplicity and cost.

Rostock has an enlarged Z axis compared to typical machines, which may not appeal to everyone. It also cannot support a heavy extruder currently, which has forced the inclusion of a bowden tube, which is not to everyone's taste.
I don't think the Rostock is a fad, it's a great looking machine, it has the 'wow' factor, but I see it being incredibly hard to tune. When others have tried it out we will know more, but I don't think one printer can come along and 'destroy' the rest, no printer will ever meet all criteria.

theodleif Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Idolcrasher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Is the Rostock the Prusa
> > Killer we have been waiting for?
>
> Did we?

Haha,

Good point

I am excited for the next generation of printers; maybe once they actually self replicate, I won't constantly be "pumped" for the next best printer

yydoctt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Rostock is an infant at the moment, and when
> more mature should be able to battle with the best
> of them.
> However RepRap is not just one single direction,
> different criteria motivate different people to
> build different bots. If we are talking about
> Prusa in particular, Version 3 (i3) is just on the
> horizon, it is neat and compact and has
> incorporated some of the nicer features seen on
> some of the new printers released this year (there
> has been many). This should appeal to new builders
> due to its simplicity and cost.
>
> Rostock has an enlarged Z axis compared to typical
> machines, which may not appeal to everyone. It
> also cannot support a heavy extruder currently,
> which has forced the inclusion of a bowden tube,
> which is not to everyone's taste.
> I don't think the Rostock is a fad, it's a great
> looking machine, it has the 'wow' factor, but I
> see it being incredibly hard to tune. When others
> have tried it out we will know more, but I don't
> think one printer can come along and 'destroy' the
> rest, no printer will ever meet all criteria.

All Valid Points,

I am a little bummed that progress with the "Prusa" is not that easy to follow. I think that the average joe does not know that the Prusa us actually on V2 as we speak. I wish the RepRap Wiki made some distinction, showing that we are currently on Prusa V2.

I will surely make some observational posts on about the Rostock once I have one built. I too wonder about tuning the machine; reports/posts I have read are super optimistic about it not being all too difficult; we shall see.

I think I would argue that 1 printer can satisfy all needs; that time has simply not come yet. Once the RepRaps actually start approaching self replication, you can use that printer to make the printer that fits your needs

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 02:31PM by Idolcrasher.

Fundamentally you can make a 3D printer that suits a variety of needs, but not all. Features like multi extrusion and platform size will always be a preference, a preference which will alter the outcome of the design. I agree that one printer could probably address scalability more successfully than we've seen so far, But there will always be preferences that one build cannot address.

You're completely right about Prusa development, its tough to follow, the only practical way is to get on the irc reprap channel. Search Google for a sneak peek of i3 though.

The Rostock alters its steps/mm depending on its position and is not linear like standard CNC machines. I see this being hard to calibrate but may be wrong, I think you may be able to just calibrate the z height, providing your bars are all exactly the same length (not much room for error!)

Calibration is just a case of calibrating the Z motion of the individual axis. The actual motion is just a function of that and the geometry, which I assume the firmware has some knowledge of.

My biggest question is stability of the platform in motion, seems to me that slop in the build could manifest in not very obvious ways, making debugging difficult.

I'm tempted to build one just because I like the concept.

Spider-Like Video Of Rostock In Action

Check out that video, and you will see how she moves. It looks rock solid and deliberate.

I am wondering if wooden dowel rods could be used vice metal bars.

Any reason to think the print quality would take a serious dive? The belts will be fairly tense regardless...

Don't the rods simply serve as a guide? I can't imagine there would be very much force applied perpendicularly to the rods.

So tempting to build one, just to try it out and be mesmerized by its movements.

I dont think wooden dowels are smooth enough. Openrail would do nicely here.

royco Wrote:
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> So tempting to build one, just to try it out and
> be mesmerized by its movements.
>
> I dont think wooden dowels are smooth enough.
> Openrail would do nicely here.

I agree,

Super tempting

Idolcrasher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spider-Like Video Of Rostock In Action
>
> Check out that video, and you will see how she
> moves. It looks rock solid and deliberate.

The video description says that the vertical accuracy is "within 0.25mm". That's actually pretty bad. It's more than one layer height if you're trying to print fine detail, and being that much off vertically is not going to produce results competing with cartesian bots in quality...

It looks cool as hell, though.

.25mm is right where I like to live.

Spent months fighting for sub .1mm layer height. Was proud to achieve that, but was never happy about trippling or quadrupling printing time

If first gen Delta Bots are doing .25mm layers, I bet that number will drop over time... If the community "wills it so"

Idolcrasher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Spent months fighting for sub .1mm layer height.
> Was proud to achieve that, but was never happy
> about trippling or quadrupling printing time
>
> If first gen Delta Bots are doing .25mm layers, I
> bet that number will drop over time... If the
> community "wills it so"


Amen! Swapped out my .35 nozzle for a chunky .5 and I'm still happy with the quality, but even happier with the speed gains...

Who is going to start the work on the pick and place head for the Rostock? That would be delicious...

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Idolcrasher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Spent months fighting for sub .1mm layer height.
>
> > Was proud to achieve that, but was never happy
> > about trippling or quadrupling printing time
> >
> > If first gen Delta Bots are doing .25mm layers,
> I
> > bet that number will drop over time... If the
> > community "wills it so"
>
>
> Amen! Swapped out my .35 nozzle for a chunky .5
> and I'm still happy with the quality, but even
> happier with the speed gains...
>
> Who is going to start the work on the pick and
> place head for the Rostock? That would be
> delicious...


Heck Ya!,

A reprap with "pick and place" capabilities would be the bomb!

I am thinking that the data and power lines for Extruder #2 and the "Picker" head could be interchangeable

If I remember right, Circuit board construction is a requirement for the Gada Prize.

Replace the bed with a lab heater with aluminum plate on top.. BOOM! 3D printer + Pick and place + SMT soldering plate.

royco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Replace the bed with a lab heater with aluminum
> plate on top.. BOOM! 3D printer + Pick and place +
> SMT soldering plate.


BUWAhahahahahah!

*sniffle* *tear rolling down cheek*

that would be awesome....

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

... look at the attached image "Tools_vacuum.jpg" - this are tools made for SMD/SMT-handling and small/lightweight enough for the rostock, even with a pneumatic support ...

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Oh no! No attachment!

We'd also need a camera on the head... And a feed tray for the smd components.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

... ooopps! - here is the thread with the images: [forums.reprap.org]

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

This guy is making a rostock with 10' long legs..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbAM9T0gHL8

emmanuelmota Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This guy is making a rostock with 10' long legs..
>
> [www.youtube.com]


Wow! That is epic.

Idolcrasher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> emmanuelmota Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This guy is making a rostock with 10' long
> legs..
> >
> > [www.youtube.com]
>
>
> Wow! That is epic.

Or insane...

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

a winning combination?

That is quite possible. Maybe he's just crazy *enough* to make it work. I hope he does!

Wondering how he intends to control the arms - belts probably aren't feasible at that length. Chain drive maybe?

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Hmmm,

On a ten foot tall machine, I am thinking some kind of chain or monster rack and pinion.

But the rack and pinion would limit the speed of the machine for sure.