3dstuffmaker.com - opinions?

I'm looking to get a pre-assembled Mendel and was looking at the one 3dstuffmaker.com provides here:
3dstuffmaker.com Prusa

It seems like it might be good quality, but I couldn't find anyone that had purchased from them. I purchased a Huxley from TechZone, and after two or three weeks of back-and-forth emails, finally got my Huxley, which, although complete (excepting missing nuts/bolts/washers), had a Z axis belt that was unusably long and an extruder/hot end that isn't going to work properly. Only after this did I find out TechZone had taken down their website and closed up shop... and I appear to be lucky to have even gotten anything from them. I've already been scorned once, so I'm looking for one that is pre-assembled so a) I don't waste time building it over several months again, and b) I can start printing ASAP and spot problems within a couple of days. As the old addage goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

So I have a few thoughts about this vendor WITH NO ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (just for those googling and coming across this thread):
1) According to their website, they are located in India, but ship to 20 (30?) countries, presumably including the US. I am cautious of companies and products from India, but that doesn't automatically make them a bad choice to buy from.
2) They have Google+ and Facebook accounts
3) I have come across quite a few individuals that have received their products, but so far no reviews (and none are Prusas anyways) I see advertisements written in review format, but nothing that comes from a consumer.
4) However there are plenty of reviews on their own website, the first of which is said to be from the US, and the remainder mostly ethnic names (again, cautious)
5) They state a warranty on their website covering manufacturing defects, but do not give a timespan for these defects
6) They have a Skype support line and a live chat, although I do not know if the language barrier will come into play, especially with these industry-specific terms. Not to mention the time zone difference means I will probably be sleeping whenever they are available (unless they are 24/7, which I see no indication of). They also provide their address, email, and phone number. **** I have not attempted to contact them **** so this is purely an observation.

And now for the big question: has anyone purchased anything from 3dstuffmaker.com? If so, I would GREATLY appreciate your thoughts about their services and their products, positive, negative, or indifferent. Especially if anyone has their Prusa models.

There are hundreds of people selling good parts with great customer service and lots of reviews. Why are you even looking at a place you cannot find info on? This makes no sense especially since you have already had a bad experience. Look through the for sale section of the forum for people selling what you want and then search the forums for reviews on them. Look through their posts and see if they are helpful or if they just run ads and ask for money.

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I had already checked the For Sale section and didn't see any pre-assembled Mendels that looked reliable when I did. As stated prior I'm not spending time on a kit again, and the For Sale section seemed to be all kits and parts. I just checked again though and found a couple I missed. Must've skipped a page or something last time.

So thanks, I guess.

LOL, almost the same with me. Got a laser Mendel from TechZone (TZ was good to me on a few issues) . Hot end was useless. I shelfed the project for a year-ish. Wound up buying a Prusa kit from MakerFarm (I *tried* to buy a kit from Botmill first, but that didn't turn out well) MakerFarm was a pleasant transaction. Downside was they don't sell the rods, smooth or threaded.

Building the Prusa is a fat day, nothing much. No gazillion of those tiny bearings, nice linears. Squaring up and dialing in will take a bit of time, but you'd still have to do that with a pre-built reprap.

3DStuffmaker are a super team! I should know I am one of them

We look after our customer by providing email as well as skype support.
Even basic 3Dprinters have in excess of 680 parts- so support is crucial. We go one step further- we have fault/user difficulties feedback right into the design/manufacturing section of our team. So if something fails- or someone has troubles doing something... not only do we fix up our customers concerns by providing tech advise and free spares etc... we also build the fixes into the very next unit we make So we are on a continuous improvement campaign
This means that we have some of the best most reliable least expensive units around. We also have very detailed instruction manuals and videos.

I am no surprised that many older kit makers are shutting up shop - it's a tough game- when we began to make our units- the days of selling any-old-junk and letting the user sort out the problems were already over. So we decided to build a quality improvement system into our products.

For example, the stability of our current Prusa- today's models is such that it can be dropped fro a table and survive the impact- The units made one year ago would shatter. Another example is the time and research we pout into providing a reliable extruder. Every extruder is tested- before it is shipped! Yet all of our customer can buy (or make themselves) replacement parts and buy new add-on technologies- because we build our units to be future proof !

...and about the issue of country of origin we are German, Australian and Indian engineers and proudly international- which is why we have happy customer all over the world

Have fun 3D printing it is a fantastically enjoyable experience...

best regards
Rob
-o-o-

^^^^ See that's what I was looking for. I don't know why my first post on these forums was greeted with a nasty (and frankly uncalled for) attitude when all I was looking for was input like that, but that last post by Rob addressed some concerns I had and gave me more confidence in 3DStuffmaker.

Question Rob (if you're still looking at this thread): what's the timespan on the warranty? I now know you replace parts and provide help in fixes and support, is there a limit on how long after purchase you provide service? I wouldn't think manufacturing defects would apply 30 years from now, so I'm curious.

Good question on warranties...

3D printers are covered under different rules pending on where you live and if you bought a kit or as a going unit.

Basically 3Dprinters are like a tool - it's guaranteed to work- but not guaranteed to survive abuse or to work without doing basic preventative maintenance (oil and not fritzing the boards )

Because you buy though the internet- you also need to be technically savvy enough to build a kit and to do basic alignment and maintenance yourself. (In the big league- maintenance contracts cost per month what our entire printers cost

Kit- we guarantee that they work and help out with free spares and advise - so your project gets to print stage. (Some people abuse this- by getting extra free spares- making all-sorts of claims- so we quality check every part and photograph and video every unit before dispatch- as proof that everything was shipped and was working. Thankfully, these guys are in the minority- but we have had some scam artists that we exposed... Whereas Genuine customers sing our praises and appreciate and know us for our generosity of time and freebies

With fully working units - we help out to get you printing - and help fix or replace anything that stops you from printing. But you need to do the work yourself and have the willingness to ask for help when stuck. 3D printers is complicated machines and need some willingness to learn the ropes on the users side.

3Dprinters are still not consumer products in the normal sense. They are tools and require a tradesperson like handling and maintenance.
Thankfully- maintenance if very simple and inexpensive by any standard!

I think what we do is more than fair and defiantly industry best standard!

Have fun 3Dprinting

Best regards
Rob
-o-o-

How do your complete machines comply with the necessary directives for selling electrical machinery in Europe?

E.g. LVD, EMC, Machinery Directive, ROHS, WEEE.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I bought one of their printers, and I'll never knowingly buy another Indian manufactured product again.

Service was a joke!

Equipment quality is one step down from $hithouse including.....
1. Smooth rods rusting when they turned up.
2. printerware breaking up from the first print run
3. firmware corrupted, took 2 months for me to repair myself, no help from 3DStuffmaker except to send me a hex file.
4. Absolutely no information on anything from the company, and their technical specialist even stated during a skype session that he didn't know what half the equipment was, or what was in the firmware.
5. Extruder constantly blocks
6. their PLS was so crap that it would snap halfway through print runs.
7. frame distorts DURING prints, has to be re-set before every print run.

I have effectively replaced/updated much of the equipment in my machine in order to get a working printer.

And claims by the comapny of my problems being unique were plain bollocks.

One indication of how bad their products are, the company has never bothered to contact me after delivery of the machine, not even to sell me consumables - pretty much says it all TBH.


MarkC

Canberra

Hi Mark,

Nice to catch up with you... since I haven't heard from you for a while.

I was the guy who advised you to make the skype call to our technical support as I do not have all technical info at my sales desk- and since electronics is not my strong forte.

I looked up your service records and discovers the following:-

1- We have not been notified of any rust issues by yourself. Pls check that the "rust' simply was not some kind of grease.

2- As it turned out the motors were turned by hand and the current produced frizzed your firmware. We then supplied you with the means to re-install the firmware. I guess you are over this hump.
We have added a "do not turn etc..." warning sticker since...
If you have any technical difficulties - skype support is there for you free. Just call with any issues.

3/4- I looked up the manuals and they now amount to 8 megabytes of technical stuff- if you do no longer have the log-on to down load it just drop us a line. You will find that any complaints have has support info added to them as well as machines are updated as soon as an issue is discoverd.
Again just contact us if you have any difficulties.

5- I guess you have the old Wade extruder - which blocks easily when you turn the extruder motor too fast. The dust dropping of the Print filament is simply falling into the hot end and blocks it eventually. That's why we have stopped using the Wade design all-together- since it has some technical shortcomings. Very careful use can give you fine prints- but very long print runs are difficult to control.
[www.3dstuffmaker.com] - check out this link and you can easily see how especially the print mechanism has improved into a much more reliable type.

A- reduce extruder push pressure or speed [you are probably creating filament dust by chewing up the PLA].
B- use a sponge to catch the dust before it falls in.
C- contact us to get one of late model extruders- which removes any dust - before if gets anywhere near the extruder head.

6- PLA can be moisture sensitive - again if any arrived faulty - just let us know to get some replacement stuff.

7- [www.3dstuffmaker.com] - again the original Prusa design was not that great.
The latest printed vitamins we have shipped are all tweaked and made 2 times as thick. The very latest we sell are made from industrial plastic and are CNC cut instead of printed.
Frame movement is however not known to us even with the earliest models- which are still running printing our own stuff. It must be a loosening of some screws or you may have the Z smooth rods not touching your table-top- which is important for stability.
Another issue could be that your print plate has warped. Try to submerge it in water after printing. It can straightens the plate and the printed parts comes off easy. You can also heat the plate and cool it on a flat table surface with a bit of weight on it- or if too far gone just get or make a spare one.

Prusa / reprap is an evolutionary product. Yesterdays good ideas are in today's rubbish bin.
That is why we have developed our Prusa model to be upgradable. If you think you got a raw deal with your early model Prusa- pls let us know and we'll happily send you freebies.

But pls also remember - that the entire reprap community relies on user feedback to improve this concept. And improved it has beyond recognition!
So, why not share your fixes with the community to help other ?

Regarding communication, we are only an email or skype call away- so just call us with any of your issues.

We have been flat-out improving our products and building new designs (we tested over 80 nozzle/driver design alone... to arrive at our latest version). New stuff such as multicolour heads and 3D scanner etc... are also in the pipeline...

So I guess our marketing has been inadequate as we got sidetracked with techical developments- . thanks for the wake-up call-

best regards
Rob
-o-o-

..

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 09:04PM by nechaus.

rob Wrote:
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> 2- As it turned out the motors were turned by hand
> and the current produced frizzed your firmware. We

Can this happen if you click on "Motors off" in pronterface and then turn the extruder motor by hand, when using the StepStick drivers?

Andy

Both are highly unlikely. I frequently move motors when they are disabled with no ill effects.

If a host terminates is seems more like a host problem than a firmware one. Pronterface doesn't terminate if the firmware is not running.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

here is a picture of the error,

I was told by the tech team it was firmware, I have now had to buy an AVR adaptor like they advised, costing me more money...
I have to unscrew the circuit board and manually clip on the avr adaptor ...
i hate unscrewing this stuff because its made out of plastic and im so gentle with it

All i can say was, i expected this to atleast Function out of the box,


I really hope this is a simple fix.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 08:27AM by nechaus.

IV also tested this on x2 computers with the exact same error screen
inspected cables, nothing looks loose,

Plug in power, green light turns on, fan turns on,
plug in usb, another light turns on.

try and connect, does not work, tried every single port, checked all documents.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 08:32AM by nechaus.

The illegal termination dialog is a bug in the host. Whether it can be triggered by bad firmware I don't know. I don't think many people use repsnapper these days.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

..

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 09:05PM by nechaus.

I tried running the compatibility with all version of windows, under the properties of redsnapper,
I have tried it in admin mode,
reinstalled, uninstalled, reinstalled,
restarted the pc,

did everything i could possibly think of, disabled antivirus, clean registry, everything........

any suggestions would be fantastic as im very eager to use this printer if it works...
it has a larger 20cm x 20cm x 20cm print area, that's why i got it!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 09:38AM by nechaus.

They have now told me that the xray machines ruined the firmware, and now I have to buy somekind of AVR machine to fix this

This sound like total bulls**t to me. How could connecting a specific model of computer damage the firmware on the flash memory of your controller board ?

any suggestions would be fantastic as im very eager to use this printer if it works...

Try with a different host software (repetier host, pronterface...).
What kind of electronics is used on that evolution machine ?

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

He means the Xray machine in customs. I don't think they are powerful enough to erase flash otherwise all modern electronic devices would be rendered useless.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Oh. Real xrays. I feel dumb now

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

Here are some pictures of the machine ...

it does look nice to me, but would prefer something made from aluminium

excuse the mess in the photos, the room is full of ebike stuff and electronic stuff...


Another thing i have just thought of, My power supply is only putting out 12.5 volts, i have it plugged into a DC watt meter, i was wanting to see the actual power draw.

Could it be possible this thing needs a slightly higher voltage, 13.8 volts?
my dc power supply is only 12.5 volts non adjustable, puts out more than enough amps.

nechaus Wrote:
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> Could it be possible this thing needs a slightly
> higher voltage, 13.8 volts?
> my dc power supply is only 12.5 volts non
> adjustable, puts out more than enough amps.

Most people run 12V power supplies, and they recommend a 12V supply on their site, so that should be just fine.

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Help improve the RepRap wiki! Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing. Anyone can edit the wiki!

Well it must be the firmware,

You would think if it could be so easily damaged by x-ray machines, they would include a AVR device, build it into their frame...
seems unlikely tho, iv been going to airports with pda, phones, electrics for years, nothing has ever been wiped or damaged by x-ray machine.

Hi Chris,

Pls find below video of your unit undergoing testing....

[www.youtube.com]

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I checked with our tech support guys- the error you are getting is only known/caused by teo things:-
1- turning the motors by hand with power turned on- this makes the motor become turbines sending current toward the PCB, wiping some of the firmware.
2- xray- at customs - has been know to wipe the firmware from PCB's.

Both incidents are quite rare- but customer problem are more accute in high tech boarder screening. We have had only 5 occurences of this in the last year and 3 were in high tech boarder countries, the other were due to motor being turned fast by hand with the power on.

Rest assured our tech guy will send you a fix and instruction on how to do it. The issue is simply fixed by reinstalling the firmware into the PCB and is not know to cause damage to anything.
Once you know how to change the firmware- you can also use Ponderface- so it is a good skill to add to your tech know how and gives you many more print options.

It is however inconvenience and for that I apologise.

Best regards
Rob
-o-o-

EMDF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^ See that's what I was looking for. I don't
> know why my first post on these forums was greeted
> with a nasty (and frankly uncalled for) attitude
> when all I was looking for was input like that,
> but that last post by Rob addressed some concerns
> I had and gave me more confidence in
> 3DStuffmaker.
>
> Question Rob (if you're still looking at this
> thread): what's the timespan on the warranty? I
> now know you replace parts and provide help in
> fixes and support, is there a limit on how long
> after purchase you provide service? I wouldn't
> think manufacturing defects would apply 30 years
> from now, so I'm curious.

Warranty internationally are a vexing issue. The best is public opinion such as this forum...
Most countries have consumer laws- for one year- but if it is a kit or an industrial product then it's often undefined....
which most reprap buyers, including myself have found out the hard way.
I have bought my first prusa and it was useless rubbish- and to sen it back was more expensive than to fix it myself..., and since I wanted to learn the technology and the low-downs as well as the up's, I did not mind and did not complain to the maker- but learned that reprap stuff can be raw!

When we started selling/making units- we began with what we knew to be the best solutions - learned from our own - first reprap buying /fixing experience.
It worked fine- and most early buyers were happy. But you never learn from happy customers! The ones you learn from are the ones that do complain. So we decided almost from the beginning to view complaints as something positive. Something that helps us to build improvements into the very next one we ship. Whilst complaints always prick our professional pride, they also have led to some amazing improvements that we could not have discovered ourselves. [www.3dstuffmaker.com] - just check out how our latest Prusa looks. Everything on it has been optimized with the best reprap ideas and with the help of feedback from our customer as well as endless hours testing and trying out our improvements.
To finally answer your question, we are happy when our customers are happy

happy 3Dprinting

best regards
Rob
-o-o-

As long as my printer works rob, Ill be happy,

I was very angry before, i am sorry.


I do recommend including the AVR unit to flash the printers in all of your products,
You don't know if the printer motors will get moved by accident or the so call x-ray machine ruins the firmware,
They are cheap i got one for $20 off ebay, seems like something that could be used later for firmware updates.


Seriously if this was my business, i would of included something so vital.
Or atleast notify the customer prior that they may need to purchase the item to reflash their printer.

You could also attach the pcb in a way that the AVR can be plugged in easy without unscrewing the fan or pcb.
After all you guys are making your own designs this is a simple thing to be implemented.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 02:41AM by nechaus.

nechaus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as my printer works rob, Ill be happy,
>
> I was very angry before, i am sorry.
>
>
> I do recommend including the AVR unit to flash the
> printers in all of your products,
> You don't know if the printer motors will get
> moved by accident or the so call x-ray machine
> ruins the firmware,
> They are cheap i got one for $20 off ebay, seems
> like something that could be used later for
> firmware updates.
>
>
> Seriously if this was my business, i would of
> included something so vital.
> Or atleast notify the customer prior that they may
> need to purchase the item to reflash their
> printer.
>
> You could also attach the pcb in a way that the
> AVR can be plugged in easy without unscrewing the
> fan or pcb.
> After all you guys are making your own designs
> this is a simple thing to be implemented.

Hi Chris,

You are right- we should offer this either with the unit or as an add-on.
We are currently reworking our shopping cart to include spares and parts for self-builders etc...
so well get busy sourcing something suitable and if costs permit, even include them with the top-line kits, or as an inexpensive add-on

I know that we usually just connect to the USB port- for firmware flashing, but I need to check that -so access should be OK without unscrewing things.

Thanks for your comments & hope you'll be up and running soon
ps. Christ is keen to get you going...


best regards
Rob
-o-o-

Sorry my name is Jason.

Are you saying the firmware can be done via the regular USB connection ?

Or the avr dongle is connected to the PCB, and then usb connect to the avr,