New Rostock MAX
Posted by johnoly99
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New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 12:09PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
Hey guys, We're working on a new Rostock derivative, we've named it the Rostock MAX, in the tradition of the mendel MAX, as we're using t-slot rails for some of the build, although we're using them for the linear motion and not just the frame. It has appx. a 13" diameter working area at the table, and ~14" of Z. As we did with our first machines, we're injection molding some of the components, but we're also adding some "bling" to this one with laser-cut acrylic/plywood framework thanks to our friend Brian at his Laser Accents shop in Goshen. Take a look at the wiki page and let me know what you guys think?
ROSTOCK MAX
Also started the Thingiverse page
Rostock MAX on thingiverse
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 03:32PM by johnoly99.
John "Oly"
SeeMeCNC.com
ROSTOCK MAX
Also started the Thingiverse page
Rostock MAX on thingiverse
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 03:32PM by johnoly99.
John "Oly"
SeeMeCNC.com
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 01:47PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 253 |
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Re: New Rostock derivative September 05, 2012 02:18PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 939 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 02:44PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
Thanks Dave. And Polygon. The carriage uses plain 608's Steve "stumbled" upon the fact that a 608 bearing rides BEAUTIFULLY in the slot in a 10 series (1") al extrusion. He drew up the radii and checked out the contact points of the bearings and the extrusions, and becuase it's lightweight, and extrusions are anodized, they'll last a really long time. We made V covers for bearings for similar applications, but don't think these need it.
Sorry, the link should be [reprap.org]
And Dave, for electronics, we are using the new RAMBo boards from UltiMachine. We started carrying them a few weeks ago, and they are absolutely awesome! Check the boards out on their wiki page, search for Rambo. Johnny isn't done with all the docs yet, so they aren't "officially" released yet, but they have ran some production on them, and we ordered them in.
Sorry, the link should be [reprap.org]
And Dave, for electronics, we are using the new RAMBo boards from UltiMachine. We started carrying them a few weeks ago, and they are absolutely awesome! Check the boards out on their wiki page, search for Rambo. Johnny isn't done with all the docs yet, so they aren't "officially" released yet, but they have ran some production on them, and we ordered them in.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 03:40PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 939 |
johnoly99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The carriage uses
> plain 608's Steve "stumbled" upon the fact
> that a 608 bearing rides BEAUTIFULLY in the slot
> in a 10 series (1") al extrusion. He drew up the
> radii and checked out the contact points of the
> bearings and the extrusions, and becuase it's
> lightweight, and extrusions are anodized, they'll
> last a really long time. We made V covers for
> bearings for similar applications, but don't think
> these need it.
What sort of extrusion are you using?
The diagram on the 80/20 website implies that the slot on 1010 extrusion would be too small (0.255in) for a 608 bearing.
EDIT: Ignore this I just realized that the bearings run on the outside surface of the extrusion, not "inside" the slot.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 03:57PM by Polygonhell.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The carriage uses
> plain 608's Steve "stumbled" upon the fact
> that a 608 bearing rides BEAUTIFULLY in the slot
> in a 10 series (1") al extrusion. He drew up the
> radii and checked out the contact points of the
> bearings and the extrusions, and becuase it's
> lightweight, and extrusions are anodized, they'll
> last a really long time. We made V covers for
> bearings for similar applications, but don't think
> these need it.
What sort of extrusion are you using?
The diagram on the 80/20 website implies that the slot on 1010 extrusion would be too small (0.255in) for a 608 bearing.
EDIT: Ignore this I just realized that the bearings run on the outside surface of the extrusion, not "inside" the slot.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 03:57PM by Polygonhell.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 03:51PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 818 |
Hi John,
That's fantastic! Love the round base and top. Is it up and running yet?
I'm building up a Rostock at the moment, and guess what, using T-slot (but only for frame construction).
I just ran a 608 bearing in the 20mm T-slots I have and I can see why you went that route! what a perfect fit.
Delta bots are the way forwards, Nice job!
Rich
[richrap.blogspot.com]
That's fantastic! Love the round base and top. Is it up and running yet?
I'm building up a Rostock at the moment, and guess what, using T-slot (but only for frame construction).
I just ran a 608 bearing in the 20mm T-slots I have and I can see why you went that route! what a perfect fit.
Delta bots are the way forwards, Nice job!
Rich
[richrap.blogspot.com]
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 03:58PM |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 04:00PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
It's 80/20, and it works with the two other brands of extruded aluminum that we have, one is 25mm (I think it's metric 80/20) and another I don't know the manufacturer of.
[reprap.org]
That should show how the bearings ride on the radii of the inner groove
[reprap.org]
Shows the 3 point stance, doesn't have the rear tensioner bearing to take any side play out of the bearings
[reprap.org]
That should show how the bearings ride on the radii of the inner groove
[reprap.org]
Shows the 3 point stance, doesn't have the rear tensioner bearing to take any side play out of the bearings
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 04:07PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
Crispy1,
Here's a link to the Firmware used on the delta bots
Delta bot firmware
It's based on marlin, but has the coordinate conversion built in.
Richrap, thanks! Steve (PartDaddy) came up with that one LATE night at the shop, and had that defining AH HAH! moment. It feels pretty dang nice don't it.
Here's a link to the Firmware used on the delta bots
Delta bot firmware
It's based on marlin, but has the coordinate conversion built in.
Richrap, thanks! Steve (PartDaddy) came up with that one LATE night at the shop, and had that defining AH HAH! moment. It feels pretty dang nice don't it.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 04:15PM |
Johnoly, thanks for the link.
I have a question about that bearing setup. I don't see any self-centering force or self-centering tendency on the bearings. What helps keep them level and properly aligned with the extrusion grooves? The only contact area between the bearings and the extrusion is that tiny sliver on the edge of each, that doesn't seem like it would be very tolerant of debris, and would wear down the extrusion quickly.
I have a question about that bearing setup. I don't see any self-centering force or self-centering tendency on the bearings. What helps keep them level and properly aligned with the extrusion grooves? The only contact area between the bearings and the extrusion is that tiny sliver on the edge of each, that doesn't seem like it would be very tolerant of debris, and would wear down the extrusion quickly.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 04:19PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
We are putting one bearing on the back plate, not shown in the picture, that will take the slop out of the bearing races, and give the carriage really nice backlash adjustment. Also, the extrusion is anodized, which makes the surface harder, and the radius of the bearing mating with the radius of the extrusion mesh well, and it's super smooth too. As for debris, true, and wear wise, we're moving little weight on the printers, so it should last quite a while, and if/when it wears, you can take up the wear with the back bearing (the one not shown).
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 05:04PM |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 05:30PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
crispy1, take a look at the pics in the links above. That's it, three 608's stood off on bolts to center the rail. As for the plates we're using on the Rostock MAX, we're playing around with molding or laser cutting them, and adding the tension bearing mount, and I'll post those plates up asap
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 05:34PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 374 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 05:44PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 06:17PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 253 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 06:33PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
Thanks. We saw the rostock early on and thought it was pretty awesome. Delta is pretty cool.
Looking at it this afternoon with Steve, looks like we're going to have ~9 1/2 " diameter at the bottom (larger in the three non-arm locations is possible) and ~11 1/2" of Z at the flat plane (again, larger at the center of the arms is possible, but not at the full diameter). Also, we're trying to keep the cost for the kit (all-in including the new RAMBo board, PSU, steppers etc...) as low as possible. Looks like we'll be around $8-850 range for the acrylic kit. What do you all think about a wood lasercut version? Other materials? The plywood is quite a bit cheaper, and laser cuts faster, so it should be cheaper, but not by a whole lot. Maybe $50 or so? Is there a demand for the wood version?
Looking at it this afternoon with Steve, looks like we're going to have ~9 1/2 " diameter at the bottom (larger in the three non-arm locations is possible) and ~11 1/2" of Z at the flat plane (again, larger at the center of the arms is possible, but not at the full diameter). Also, we're trying to keep the cost for the kit (all-in including the new RAMBo board, PSU, steppers etc...) as low as possible. Looks like we'll be around $8-850 range for the acrylic kit. What do you all think about a wood lasercut version? Other materials? The plywood is quite a bit cheaper, and laser cuts faster, so it should be cheaper, but not by a whole lot. Maybe $50 or so? Is there a demand for the wood version?
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 06:49PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 156 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 06:53PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
Of course! We will offer the parts and hardware kit, and then you will be able to add on your RAMBo electronics including heated bed, motors, PSU etc... or just buy the parts and hardware, and supply your own electronics. The acrylic smoke door in the one picture with the two fan vents in it have mounting holes for both RAMPS 1.4 and RAMBo from UltiMachine already in it, so you will be able to swing open the door for access, but keep everything enclosed. The one CAD image Steve did of the solidworks model he has a piece of white PVC signboard wrapped around the bottom. It looks pretty "apple'ish" cool, but I like seeing all the acrylic and vents and "stuff" under it.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 05, 2012 09:15PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 374 |
Johnoly99,
I took a spare bearing I had laying around and experimented with running it along the channel in a piece of metric Misumi. Maybe the SAE extrusion channel width is different, but I didn't feel any ability to self-center or self-align the bearing on the channel. In my mind, this means that if it comes out of alignment it stays out of alignment - it's not self correcting.
But again, this could be because all I have on hand is metric channel.
I took a spare bearing I had laying around and experimented with running it along the channel in a piece of metric Misumi. Maybe the SAE extrusion channel width is different, but I didn't feel any ability to self-center or self-align the bearing on the channel. In my mind, this means that if it comes out of alignment it stays out of alignment - it's not self correcting.
But again, this could be because all I have on hand is metric channel.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 08:21AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
crispy1, with the two bearings on one side, and one on the other create the stance and rotational constraint, and the one not shown, that pulls the whole carriage assembly in the rear direction. The bearings radius edge mates to the extrusions radius inner edge, creating the "groove" that centers them
Here's an idea we had, maybe using richraps tri color extruder to drive them?
[reprap.org]
Here's an idea we had, maybe using richraps tri color extruder to drive them?
[reprap.org]
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 11:16AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 11:23AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 939 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 12:25PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 01:13PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 253 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 01:35PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 02:16PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 374 |
Wow, that robot is HUGE.
Any chance we could get a close-up picture or video showing the bearings resting on the extrusion?
Also, FWIW I'd be leery of plywood because of how much it changes dimension when exposed to humidity. I used a plywood support for my HPB for a while and I had to adjust the Z endstop before every print. With heavy gauge sheet metal it's very consistent.
Any chance we could get a close-up picture or video showing the bearings resting on the extrusion?
Also, FWIW I'd be leery of plywood because of how much it changes dimension when exposed to humidity. I used a plywood support for my HPB for a while and I had to adjust the Z endstop before every print. With heavy gauge sheet metal it's very consistent.
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 02:45PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
Yeah, its a big boy. Im pretty excited with the speed and torque! I made some 15 tooth gt2 pulleys on the mazak CNC lathe yesterday, and they are perfect. I think Johann used 40 tooth on his origional rostock. So, theoretically this has more than twice the precision?
Check the youtube channel shortly, I'm uploading a quick clip of the slides for you
Check the youtube channel shortly, I'm uploading a quick clip of the slides for you
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 03:35PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 477 |
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Re: New Rostock MAX September 06, 2012 03:40PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 216 |
xiando, speed would theoretically be slower, you're right. However, did you watch the video clip? That was moving at ~800 in/min, or about ~338mm/sec. Fast enough I think, but that's what we're gonna find out. If it proves too slow I can always hit the Mazak again and make some larger motor pulleys. I know we kinda have a slight advantage to the averagge reprapper out there, we've got 9 CNC's in the shop, 4 mills (2 with 4 axis) 2 live tooling 4-5 axis Mazak lathes, 1 big bore mazak, 2 CMS mini's and wire Sodick wire EDM's, so prototyping can happen pretty quick when we get motivated, and we all just had that urge to do the Rostock "SeeMe" style.
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