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RepRap it's self going commercial, too?

Posted by Traumflug 
RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 05:48AM
So far I've considered RepRap it's self to be the central, not-for-profit and reasonably neutral entity in the RepRap universe. Copyright was held by the University of Bath, represented by one of it's members, Adrian Bowyer.

Now this representant apparently has changed his hat from being a university member to being the member of one of the commercial enterprises in and around RepRap.

I'm well aware Ardian is just THE hero to many here. He's the speaker of those few (Vik Olliver would be another one) who continued with the initial experiments until, after a long journey, RepRap finally took off. Nevertheless, with the move described above I see parallels with MakerBots changes to Thingiverse back in February which caused quite a stir in out community recently: [forums.reprap.org] [forums.reprap.org]

What do you think?


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 05:55AM
The 'copyright' in that document refers only to the logo. The files are still under GPL. Adrian held it before, he still holds it now. Is this a big deal?
"The copyright covers the teardrop device, the neologism "RepRap" in upper, lower, or any mix of cases in any typeface, and the phrase "Fused Filament Fabrication" and its abbreviation to "FFF". The teardrop, "RepRap", "Fused Filament Fabrication" and "FFF" are also covered by the GPL. Anyone can use them freely in any way they choose, but they may not be registered as trademarks or restricted in any other way."
VDX
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 05:57AM
... Adrian stated several times, that despite his 'comercial interests' around the company he's driving together with his daughter, all RepRap-regarding legal stuff is aimed to let it be OS under tehe GPL, so for me no point in starting the same disputes every year anew ...


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 06:04AM
open source requires those that protect the interests of the community. one way to do that is ensure brand recondition, and separation from other entities. what would you do if you had no way to separate '[email protected]' vs reprap? reprap works hard on public image and the logo.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 06:28AM
Quote
VDX
Adrian stated several times [...]

Just because Adrian says so doesn't mean it shouldn't be subject to discussion. And last year, there was no RepRapPro.

Quote
jamesdanielv
open source requires those that protect the interests of the community.

Exactly. How can one commercial entity protect the interests of other (commercial) entities and the people related to these other entities? Such behaviour can exist, but it isn't exactly typical. MakerBot can play nice with the files in Thingiverse, but people fear they don't.


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
VDX
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 07:15AM
... if you want to be precise - Adrian was 'commercially interested' since the first days ... it's one of the game theory aspects, driving the evolution.

And as one of the share-holders of MBI of the first time he seems to know, what's going up here winking smiley

More interesting for me is the story around Zach, how he started/initiated MBI on his GEN3 electronics and was 'outsourced' this year confused smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 07:16AM by VDX.


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 07:27AM
The world simply isn't just black or white.

And whoever raises his finger here may ask himself if there hadn't been a time when he was dreaming of earning money by his skills and knowledge concerning reprap.

I do not regard it as fair play to declare someone as a Saint, search for evidence that he isn't, and then conclude that he must be a devil instead.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 07:38AM
There is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know about,

the only solution to this mess is to get Adrian Bowyer ,Bre Pettis , Josef Prusa and a few other key people need to get into the same chat room/skype call/whatever and get some of the questions answered,
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 08:37AM
Did all of this really require a new thread?
It's been rehashed ad nauseam in the other... three (?) threads.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 09:03AM
well... people are very very pissed off at the moment
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 09:35AM
Perhaps I can clear things up a bit

Adrian has now retired from the University and all RepRap activities will be coming to a close shortly as far as the University is concerned(Well once I finish writing my thesis). He's just updating his contact details.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 09:45AM by rhysjones.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 10:56AM
Thanks for the info Rhys, I think that makes the reason for the change clear.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 12:22PM
Quote
VDX
More interesting for me is the story around Zach, how he started/initiated MBI on his GEN3 electronics and was 'outsourced' this year

This puts Zach in a similar situation as Steve Jobs back when Apple got successful, doesn't it?

Quote
theodleif
[...] conclude that he must be a devil instead

I don't think anybody detects a devil here. At least I don't.

Quote
ryhsjones
Adrian has now retired from the University

Perhaps it wouldn't be the worst idea to take this opportunity to hand over RepRap to his successor or to a, well, RepRap Research Foundation. Similar to how Linux is maintained by the Linux Foundation. Just an idea.


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 12:30PM
I should say that just because he's retiring from the University does not equal leaving the project. If anything he's going to be working on it more than ever.
As an aside I'll also be leaving the University soon, although I won't be going anywhere either

As far as foundation, there is a core team consisting of about 15-20 people (I've lost count), including most of the notable developers. All decisions regarding the wider project are made as a group, but typically these are minor. Pretty much the only thing discussed over the past few months was deciding to include some other machines on the wiki front page.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 12:31PM by rhysjones.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 05:34PM
Traumflug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This puts Zach in a similar situation as Steve
> Jobs back when Apple got successful, doesn't it?

Not really. Jobs was meddling too much into projects that weren't his (Macintosh, among others).
After moving him to a project team and department of his own didn't help, things got heated up a bit, culminating in Jobs trying to do a coup.

And it's not an exaggeration or dramatization, it really was a coup in its fullest sense.

Jean-Louis Gassée (of BeOS fame), with whom Jobs wasn't exactly on friendly terms, ratted him out if i recall correctly (i was researching this for a longish magazine article once, i might've mixed things up since), ending in Jobs getting sacked.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2012 05:35PM by orcinus.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 24, 2012 08:45PM
you know i kinda like the idea of a reprap foundation, but how could we support it financially,


[mike-mack.blogspot.com]
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 25, 2012 07:19AM
Quote

how could we support it financially

The same way RepRap is currently run? And I think most of the serious RepRap-related businesses would happily shell out a few bucks for putting a "we support RepRap" logo on their web site.

A foundation doesn't mean there has to be a committee of 15 highly paid individuals, IMHO it should be more like a clear message "RepRap is independent and neutral".


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 25, 2012 10:55AM
I agree.

Traumflug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how could we support it financially
>
> The same way RepRap is currently run? And I think
> most of the serious RepRap-related businesses
> would happily shell out a few bucks for putting a
> "we support RepRap" logo on their web site.
>
> A foundation doesn't mean there has to be a
> committee of 15 highly paid individuals, IMHO it
> should be more like a clear message "RepRap is
> independent and neutral".


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 25, 2012 11:17AM
Same here, a foundation similar to the FSF would be nice.

Anyone tried to get Adrian's feeling about this idea ?


Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 25, 2012 01:26PM
I will support a foundation. Help if we would need people I will voluntere.


[mike-mack.blogspot.com]
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 25, 2012 02:25PM
One of the main things that attracted me to the Reprap community was, Wealth without money
although I don't see it so much now, I think we should be in either of two camps, open source/hardware or commercial, keep reprap or a new foundation for open source/hardware and let others who want to be commercial go some place else.

Quote
And whoever raises his finger here may ask himself if there hadn't been a time when he was dreaming of earning money by his skills and knowledge concerning reprap.

I haven't, but I suppose many do, I just want a place that shares ideas and information for its own sake not to make a fast buck.


Random Precision
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 26, 2012 08:26AM
Foundation would be a good idea.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 26, 2012 06:35PM
Quote
johnrpm
One of the main things that attracted me to the Reprap community was, Wealth without money
although I don't see it so much now, I think we should be in either of two camps, open source/hardware or commercial, keep reprap or a new foundation for open source/hardware and let others who want to be commercial go some place else.

If all of the reprap designs were licensed for non-commercial use only, reprap would die, and quickly, because there would be nowhere for a new user to go to buy RP parts, and finding someone who will print them for you for free would be next to impossible - humans simply aren't that altruistic.

Reprap needs people who sell parts/kits/fully assembled printers in order to be successful.
Re: RepRap it's self going commercial, too?
September 27, 2012 06:28AM
Quote

If all of the reprap designs were licensed for non-commercial use only, [...] there would be nowhere for a new user to go to buy RP parts

Pardon? Parts with non-commercial licenses can be bought, of course.


Generation 7 Electronics Teacup Firmware RepRap DIY
     
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