Anyone else have issues with white PLA?

Hey everyone,

I was wondering if anyone holds the key to my dilemma: I have been able to get things really well calibrated with several different colors of PLA from Ultimachine and wasn't expecting any issues with the roll of white I recently got.

Unfortunately no matter what I try I can't seem to get a clean part.

For some reason the white coughs up huge blobs and then the print head drags through them, making for an ugly print.

When I switched back to purple: Perfect print (or as perfect as I need).

I've measured the cross-section at several points along the filament (like I did with the other colors) a few times and tried playing with the temp, adjusting about 5 degrees C for a few layers each. Nothing I have tried has helped.

Anyone got any ideas?

In case it matters:
I'm using a Prusa Mendel v2 with Ramps 1.4, several different slicer programs with no difference (slic3r, Skeinforge, Kisslicer...).

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Mike

itsa3dworld.blogspot.com

Have you tried a differente white filament? Coudl it be that he white one you have is a low quality one?

No, this is the only one I've tried. It's from a supplier with a great reputation (ultimachine) and the other filament I've gotten from them has always been fine and very predictable.

I have read that some people have had trouble getting white PLA to stick to the bed on the first layer, but for me it really wasn't isolated to the first layer, it's all of them.

it sounds like your running it too hot for the speed you are depositing it. either speed up your feedrate or lower your temp 5-10deg c, then by 5 deg c until it no longer drips out.

Quote
jamesdanielv
> it sounds like your running it too hot for the
> speed you are depositing it. either speed up your
> feedrate or lower your temp 5-10deg c, then by 5
> deg c until it no longer drips out.

Thanks. The temp is the first thing I started playing with, knowing that different colors will have different properties and that the hardware calibration was pretty much dialed in for the print quality I like, using other colors.

I've tried it all the way up to where it drips out of the nozzle (180-185 on mine) and dialed it down in 5 degree increments until the extruder started 'bucking' because the filament wasn't flowing at all. At about 170-175 it flows well, but still spits out blobs at random points in the print. If I go much cooler it bucks the extruder gear. No other color has given me these issues and once I enter the average cross-sectional diameter and dial in the temp they all just work...except this white.

The fact that it appears to flow fine at a given temp and feed rate and then blows out a bubble or blob of filament (I even got some splatters on my hand when I was watching to see if I could determine the cause the other day) leads me to believe ther is something inconsistent in the filament itself.

Being a noob (only got the kit in July) the most likely culprit is something I'm doing wrong. I just don't know what.

I guess what I'm hearing is that no one else has had these problems with a particular color (and specifically white) so I guess I'll keep trying to figure it out based on your suggestions.

Thanks!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 09:03AM by a_shorething.

a_shorething Wrote:
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> temp and feed rate and then blows out a bubble or
> blob of filament (I even got some splatters on my
> hand when I was watching to see if I could
> determine the cause the other day) leads me to
> believe ther is something inconsistent in the
> filament itself.

When you say it blows out a bubble or splatters it makes me think that the PLA might have absorbed some moisture. If it did that moisture will turn into steam inside the nozzle and create bubbles or excess pressure which will force out the plastic in blobs. Do you live in a humid environment? Has the PLA been sitting out in the open for a long time? I haven't experienced this because i live in a pretty dry climate, but i have read about other people experiencing this.

I just bought White PLA from Ultimaker and started using it yesterday. Previously i used strictly black PLA from Ultimaker. I have yet to see any difference with the white, but ive only made a couple prints. Right now i am printing the Okay Hand with the white PLA and so far so good.

Thanks again,

I was thinking the same thing about moisture and it has been a little humid here, but the roll has only been opened for a couple of weeks and it started doing this pretty much out of the gate.

I think I may have it figured out, or at least partially. I was working in a range of 165 to about 185 or 190 C and thinking it was dripping out of the nozzle but before I gave up I decided to confirm that and I had it up well over 200 C and it still wasn't dripping this time. I'm still getting some issues with blobbing and spitting on the first layer or two but then it smoothed out, at least on my first few test prints after working with another color (without incident) for a few days. It does look like I just have to bump up the temp a LOT on this color for some reason. It did complete a pretty good set of prints (after another calibration test) just now so I'm going to try it again. Looks like 195-205 may be the right temp for this one, maybe even hotter.

I'll post results when I'm sure.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2012 12:02AM by a_shorething.

After my hand print didnt turn out perfect i ran some calibration prints and im having exactly the same problems with my white filament. Ive tried to hot and to cold, neither is working yet. I bought two 5lb rolls for $200 because they were out of black. Ill keep experimenting. Post back in if you get it solved.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2012 02:36PM by GITRDUN.

Yup, I'm good to go now.

It was just a much higher range than I had been using for the other colors so I didn't take it that high.

First layer print: 201 C bed temp 70 C
After that: 198 C, bed temp 65 C.

I think my biggest mistake was going in 5 degree increments. The white (for me at least) seems to have a narrow printable 'band' and if you think about it metric gives a much higher resolution for distance (mm vs. parts of an inch) but a much LOWER resolution for temps. I have never gone to the tenths place in degrees and in fact I've only changed temps in 3-5 degree chunks. That's a pretty wide gap and I think I just blew right by the 'sweet spot' for this color/material.

I've gotten several good prints from this since I tried these settings so I'm pretty sure I nailed it.

Also- BTW- I was using a different 'lift' setting for my printer with this material since it was blobbing out. I had it set to retract 2mm and then feed .5mm for the other colors, but for white it was pouring out when I used this so I changed it and picked one with no restart after the retract, but the setting I picked also had a .2mm Z offset. I didn't realize it at the time, but some of my woes were caused by the print head being too far above the bed on the first layer. Too many variables and I wasn't checking every single one when I switched.

Good luck with yours!

I went way up on temp and have gotten a more consistent result as well. But my layers are not coming out even on the perimeters, it looks like it has major z wobble issues. Not sure whats up with that but the plastic is extruding consistently now.

I don't know what you mean by z-wobble issues but I can say that you will need to remove as much 'slop' from every axis as possible to get clean prints.

Good luck!

I havent read the whole thread but here are my 2 cents, I recently ordered chinese filament and it seemed like it was crap, causing all sorts of issues with the print head dragging plastic all over. I then looked at the underside of my prints and realized that they werent sticking to the print bed. Some areas were bumped up which caused all these issues.

Your first layer is critical and HAS to stick prefectly to the print bed. If this seems to be your case check out my latess blog post regarding using airspray on your print bed:

http://gearforge.blogspot.ca/2012/10/wont-you-stick-to-my-cold-bed-please.html

To OP - yes, i've had a lot of trouble with UM white and black. It's crappy compared to their other offerings.
Silver's awesome, black and white are... Blobby. And runny. And extrude unevenly. And don't stick to previous layers well unless you bump the temperatures way up into ABS territory, at which point you'll be having other problems with it (strings, cooling, pops).

In summation, no matter what i did and whichever temperature i've used, the results were quite underwhelming.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2012 09:52AM by orcinus.

I have actually been printing with white Ultimachine PLA recently and things seemed ok for a while, but latley i have been getting some blobs that do kind of spurt out and then turn into a brittle chalky like substance rather than nice normal PLA.

I have usually had excellent results with Ultimachine PLA, but this batch of white does seem to have so weird things going on that i haven't experienced before in my 2 years of printing with their filament.

a_shorething are you still having good results with your increased temperature? 201 and 198 seem pretty hot for PLA, but maybe i should give that a try... I have typically been printing between 180 and 190.

I also have bad experience with white ultimachine PLA. My spool was bought more than two years ago though. Black, silver and transparent blue have been behaving perfectly fine though.

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-Nudel
Blog with RepRap Comic

@orcinus:
Have you tried adjusting the temps in single degrees or even tenths of a degree? I'd suggest trying a calibration piece and every few layers just bump the temp a minor amount like a couple tenths of a degree or at most 1 full degree C. Watch the temp monitor to see that it's equalized and check the results. I think the white has a much narrower band of useable temps. I could adjust to within 3-5 degrees C for other colors and not notice a difference. Not so with white.

@daufhammer
> a_shorething are you still having good results
> with your increased temperature? 201 and 198 seem
> pretty hot for PLA, but maybe i should give that a
> try... I have typically been printing between 180
> and 190.

I just did a couple of prints with the white in the last day or two and I'm still happy with the results. Seems the temp and first layer height were my major issues.

I also feel like the composition of the white may be different from the other colors, not just because of the high temps required, but it does still seem to have different flow characteristics. There is a very narrow band for the 'sweet spot' of extrusion, maybe just 1 or 2 degrees C (and maybe I need to start using decimals for these for higher precision).

The consistency seems like it's a little creamier or greasier than the other colors when it flows, but maybe that's just me still not getting it perfect.

The print quality does seem pretty good though.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2012 07:31AM by a_shorething.

a_shorething Wrote:
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> @orcinus:
> Have you tried adjusting the temps in single
> degrees or even tenths of a degree?

If i recall correctly, i was changing the temps by 5 deg C at a time.
Sadly, cannot retest, since i don't have any UM white anymore.

Might order a sample the next time i order silver (which is my absolute favourite so far).

Same here, prusa i3, black perfect run, white color no luck, have to raise extruder from 100 to 108%, temp at 210 and bed at 64, Stranges. Not perfect yet but better, black print just perfect without errors.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2016 08:02PM by TommyF.

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BQ I3 prusa - PLA