Banding in prints...???
Posted by magicald
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Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 06:38PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
Can someone please give me advice or ideas of other things to try. I have banding in my prints that repeats every 7-8 layers. I have the following setup:
Prusa V2
now with 1/4-16 leadscrews (didn't help the problem at all!!)
MG extruder and hotend
Ramps 1.4 - ultimachine
Latest Repetier fW
T2.5 belts
3mm PLA - Ultimachine
I just completely isolated my Z axis with the Z-isolators off thingiverse...didn't make a difference...
I just increased the voltage on my Z axis stepper driver to 0.6V from 0.4V...didn't make a difference...
The banding does go all the way around the print, so still looks like a Z-axis problem??? Please Help, I've been printing for 4 months and have everything figured out except this!!
Pic attached:
Prusa V2
now with 1/4-16 leadscrews (didn't help the problem at all!!)
MG extruder and hotend
Ramps 1.4 - ultimachine
Latest Repetier fW
T2.5 belts
3mm PLA - Ultimachine
I just completely isolated my Z axis with the Z-isolators off thingiverse...didn't make a difference...
I just increased the voltage on my Z axis stepper driver to 0.6V from 0.4V...didn't make a difference...
The banding does go all the way around the print, so still looks like a Z-axis problem??? Please Help, I've been printing for 4 months and have everything figured out except this!!
Pic attached:
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 06:41PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 06:44PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
Sorry, keep forgetting important info:
1. Not a slicing problem - tried three versions of Slic3r back to 0.72b, Sfact, and SF50
2. 0.35 nozzle, 0.3mm layer height
3. tried slowing everything down...doesn't help
4. Z-motors are set to stay on all the time in FW
Any help/ideas greatly appreciated!
1. Not a slicing problem - tried three versions of Slic3r back to 0.72b, Sfact, and SF50
2. 0.35 nozzle, 0.3mm layer height
3. tried slowing everything down...doesn't help
4. Z-motors are set to stay on all the time in FW
Any help/ideas greatly appreciated!
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 08:40PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 229 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 09:17PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 809 |
Are your motors bolted down? If they are remove the screws and let them float in the mounts.
When you hold the print up to the screw does the pattern match the threads?
How straight are your 1/4-16 acme rods?
- akhlut
Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!
[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
When you hold the print up to the screw does the pattern match the threads?
How straight are your 1/4-16 acme rods?
- akhlut
Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!
[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 09:22PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 229 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 09:37PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
@akhlut:
- My screws are in, but completely loose--I'll try taking them out
- my acme rods are not perfectly straight, but they are unconstrainted at the top and bottom
- the pattern does match - but why does it go all the way around my print??
@rogerw
-I still notice it on tubes/cylinders, but it is less obvious
- My screws are in, but completely loose--I'll try taking them out
- my acme rods are not perfectly straight, but they are unconstrainted at the top and bottom
- the pattern does match - but why does it go all the way around my print??
@rogerw
-I still notice it on tubes/cylinders, but it is less obvious
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 09:48PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 809 |
Which z-isolators are you using? These?
- akhlut
Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!
[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
- akhlut
Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!
[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 10:02PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 10:03PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 10:23PM |
I think that you have backlash in X and Y axes. Because you said that with one wall the problem dissapears.
Try to move the Y belt with the bed stopped with your other hand. If you can move something, you have backlash.
In the x axe is the same. May be the belts gears have a little backlash. Good luck.
Try to move the Y belt with the bed stopped with your other hand. If you can move something, you have backlash.
In the x axe is the same. May be the belts gears have a little backlash. Good luck.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 10:28PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,780 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 10:31PM |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 10:57PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 11:02PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 11:12PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,780 |
What is the infill ratio set to? If you're extruding too much plastic, then it may take a few layers depending on your infill ratio to accumulate excess plastic for the walls to bulge out. Then it would be back to normal and the process can repeat again.
It doesn't look like z wobble due to bent leadscrews since the bulge goes all the way around on the same layers. Wobble would cause each layer to be displaced from each other in the x and y direction so that when it bulges out on one side, it bulges in on the other side so that the dimension of each layer stays the same.
It doesn't look like z wobble due to bent leadscrews since the bulge goes all the way around on the same layers. Wobble would cause each layer to be displaced from each other in the x and y direction so that when it bulges out on one side, it bulges in on the other side so that the dimension of each layer stays the same.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 11:23PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,947 |
0.3 layers from a 0.35 is crazy in my opinion. But I think 0.3 layers is crazy no matter what size nozzle. Try 0.2 and see if it helps. My guess is your hotend can not keep up and causes pressure to build up until the hobbed bolt slips and this repeats evenly.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 20, 2012 11:46PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
@brnrd
- infill density? is set at 25% for the test cubes...using lower or higher doesn't seem to matter
- tuned extruder multiplier to 0.83 in Slic3r even with 100mm E-step correct
@sublime
-I have tried lower layer heights and I still see it...though I haven't done tried it recently, I'll try again after my next Rostock part finishes - Thanks!
-BTW this is a MG extruder with direct drive gear and geared stepper motor.
- infill density? is set at 25% for the test cubes...using lower or higher doesn't seem to matter
- tuned extruder multiplier to 0.83 in Slic3r even with 100mm E-step correct
@sublime
-I have tried lower layer heights and I still see it...though I haven't done tried it recently, I'll try again after my next Rostock part finishes - Thanks!
-BTW this is a MG extruder with direct drive gear and geared stepper motor.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 07:25AM |
Admin Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 7,879 |
If you print one twice as wide does the banding have a different frequency or the same?
I.e. does it depend on height or time?
If it purely depends on height it must be a problem with the lead screws. Perhaps the threads are inclined so it does not increase linearly with rotation. People have reported that before.
[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
I.e. does it depend on height or time?
If it purely depends on height it must be a problem with the lead screws. Perhaps the threads are inclined so it does not increase linearly with rotation. People have reported that before.
[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 07:58AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,780 |
Quote
Sublime
0.3 layers from a 0.35 is crazy in my opinion. But I think 0.3 layers is crazy no matter what size nozzle. ...
I print 0.3mm layers with my 0.34mm J-head all the time and the walls are as good as when I do 0.25mm. I do this a lot to speed up parts that I use only once and where layer adhesion is not an issue. I don't see why 0.3mm layers are crazy with larger nozzles.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 11:29AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 42 |
I have seen a similar issue when my extruder is starting to jam. Too little plastic can cause the print to "cheat" around the corners, making the perimeter shrink. Not sure this is your problem because it looks so regular. You might want to up you flow rate 10% just as a test. Are you having jamming issues too?
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 03:31PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 2,947 |
brnrd Wrote:
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> > 0.3 layers from a 0.35 is crazy in my opinion.
> But I think 0.3 layers is crazy no matter what
> size nozzle. ...
>
>
> I print 0.3mm layers with my 0.34mm J-head all the
> time and the walls are as good as when I do
> 0.25mm. I do this a lot to speed up parts that I
> use only once and where layer adhesion is not an
> issue. I don't see why 0.3mm layers are crazy with
> larger nozzles.
I just think they are hideous, if I wanted something that looked like it was made by laminating sheets of plywood I would laminate sheets of plywood. I think the layers should be invisible. Tantillus default is 0.15, coarse is 0.2 and draft mode is 0.25 which is the thickest layers I have printed in my two years of printing. With 0.25 a dome top looks like an 8bit graphic so why would I make that worse.
-------------------------------------------------------
> > 0.3 layers from a 0.35 is crazy in my opinion.
> But I think 0.3 layers is crazy no matter what
> size nozzle. ...
>
>
> I print 0.3mm layers with my 0.34mm J-head all the
> time and the walls are as good as when I do
> 0.25mm. I do this a lot to speed up parts that I
> use only once and where layer adhesion is not an
> issue. I don't see why 0.3mm layers are crazy with
> larger nozzles.
I just think they are hideous, if I wanted something that looked like it was made by laminating sheets of plywood I would laminate sheets of plywood. I think the layers should be invisible. Tantillus default is 0.15, coarse is 0.2 and draft mode is 0.25 which is the thickest layers I have printed in my two years of printing. With 0.25 a dome top looks like an 8bit graphic so why would I make that worse.
| FFF Settings Calculator | Gcode post processors | Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog |
| Tantillus.org | Mini Printable Lathe | How NOT to install a Pololu driver |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 03:56PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 120 |
This is def not wobble of z because then you would see a shift left or right one way or they other.
this looks more something like inconcsistand Z elavation moving more or less then the appropriate distance on every Zturn therefor squashing some layers more then the others. or some inconsintancy in your extruder. Does it happen if you print a bigger box and does it happen in the same 7 or 8 layers?
Maybe you can true to remove the acme by just normal screw thread.
this looks more something like inconcsistand Z elavation moving more or less then the appropriate distance on every Zturn therefor squashing some layers more then the others. or some inconsintancy in your extruder. Does it happen if you print a bigger box and does it happen in the same 7 or 8 layers?
Maybe you can true to remove the acme by just normal screw thread.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 05:46PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
Weedz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is def not wobble of z because then you would
> see a shift left or right one way or they other.
>
> this looks more something like inconcsistand Z
> elavation moving more or less then the appropriate
> distance on every Zturn therefor squashing some
> layers more then the others. or some inconsintancy
> in your extruder. Does it happen if you print a
> bigger box and does it happen in the same 7 or 8
> layers?
>
> Maybe you can true to remove the acme by just
> normal screw thread.
I had the same banding with a 8mm screw for my z drive, that's why I switched to ACME leads
- I'm going to try some lower layer heights
- also, what should my stepper drive voltage be set to? 0.4V?
Thanks for all the advice so far...
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is def not wobble of z because then you would
> see a shift left or right one way or they other.
>
> this looks more something like inconcsistand Z
> elavation moving more or less then the appropriate
> distance on every Zturn therefor squashing some
> layers more then the others. or some inconsintancy
> in your extruder. Does it happen if you print a
> bigger box and does it happen in the same 7 or 8
> layers?
>
> Maybe you can true to remove the acme by just
> normal screw thread.
I had the same banding with a 8mm screw for my z drive, that's why I switched to ACME leads
- I'm going to try some lower layer heights
- also, what should my stepper drive voltage be set to? 0.4V?
Thanks for all the advice so far...
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 10:25PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 10:33PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 1,780 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 11:30PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 29 |
In this thread [forums.reprap.org] it looks like the culprit might be the heated bed.
I use one and have the same artifact on my prints. Some day when I'm not so lazy I plan to turn it off and do the same test.
I use one and have the same artifact on my prints. Some day when I'm not so lazy I plan to turn it off and do the same test.
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 21, 2012 11:58PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
I haven't had a chance to measure and adjust for my single wall...my battery died in my calipers! got to get a new battery and play with it.
@Tsb4k: That's an interesting post; however, I was printing a long time without a heated bed with PLA, but it finally got too cold in my garage where I print, so I installed a heated 120V silicone pad heater under my aluminum bed...I'll try turning it down and see what happens ---Not sure if Repetier FW supports PID control of the hot bed??
@Tsb4k: That's an interesting post; however, I was printing a long time without a heated bed with PLA, but it finally got too cold in my garage where I print, so I installed a heated 120V silicone pad heater under my aluminum bed...I'll try turning it down and see what happens ---Not sure if Repetier FW supports PID control of the hot bed??
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 22, 2012 01:14AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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Re: Banding in prints...??? November 22, 2012 01:16AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 26 |
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