Game changer and possible paradigm changer.

This is exactly what I want out of a RepRap but doubt I will ever see. maybe this technology will trickle down and in 20 years be affordable for the rest of us but this proves bigger is better in all kinds of ways. It does multiple types of materials too so it isn't just big, which we need to for it to be a game changer, but does that prints in so many different materials.

[www.youtube.com]

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

give us time, i'l going to ask them if they can print me a Tantalus as a single piece

thejollygrimreaper Wrote:
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> give us time, i'l going to ask them if they can
> print me a Tantalus as a single piece
That would be awesome, lol.

I hope we can achieve this within my lifetime because I am dead serious change, the kind of change I am wanting, can only come with bigger single piece prints. This puppy does it but I can only imagine the price of it. I mean it even prints in clear glass like material.

At least this should show people, who happened to tell everyone it can't be done do to uplifting with bigger prints, that bigger beds, and prints, can be done.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Holy crap. That thing is huge! Well, overall size anyway. The build area doesnt look as big as id expect for the machines size. Still, WOW. Bet its $$$$$$$$$

johnoly99 Wrote:
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> Holy crap. That thing is huge! Well, overall size
> anyway. The build area doesnt look as big as id
> expect for the machines size. Still, WOW. Bet its
> $$$$$$$$$
I bet so as I am too scared to even Google it to find out if I can find its price. Still, look at all of the materials it can print with then add the size and yummy.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

there are machines already that print objects the size of cars it's just a case of building the Cartesian platform to suit the size you want to print,

the limiting factor here is really more the material if using a polymer, the contraction as it cools that wants to make it bend and twist just gets worse and worse the bigger the objects get, even pla has it's limits, the other limiting factor is our current extrusion methods and the quality of what we put into our extruders, when you consider that granulated abs is under $5 to $10 yet as filament it's closer to $40 to $70 for the decent stuff it becomes quite costly to build really large objects

I estimate that by mid to late next year if not sooner a significant percentage of us may dump the idea of using filament feedstock entirely in favour of using much cheaper resins and ceramic/polymer mixes which literally cost less than $5 a kilo to make and will allow us to expand our print areas to several times the current sizes with none of the current problems we are having with warpage, while at the same time get some very very strong parts, i am personally optimistic that i am going through the last 10 spools of filament right now and will probably never place and order for abs again, however possibly pla for a little while

I hope you are right Grim but we will see. This printer shows how it can be done but besides the size it can print, which is why I first homed in on it, it can use many different types of materials which a RepRap can't. Now once we go to pellets, etc..., we should be able to.

Btw, that glass they printed which material would that be? Surely not real glass though if hot enough it could be done in real glass using glass beads. What gets me is how fine the layers were as that glass had none of the tell tale signs of being printed.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this technology cascade down within the next decade or so. Keep in mind that 3D printing only started to emerge in the 80's and was inconceivably expensive to own / operate. Look where we are 30 years later, we now have technologically simplified FDM machines sitting on our dining tables. What Objet is previewing is merely an up-scaled version of known technology and printing materials. The advancement that has been made in Photopolymer printers in just the past year or two tells me that we will be seeing this technology in our workshops and homes very soon.

In March of this year the current administration, love 'em or hate 'em, provided $1 billion into the establishment of 15 advanced manufacturing institutes, essentially DARPA for manufacturing (government funded R&D). From the White House press release:

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The Institutes will each have a well-defined technology focus to address industrially-relevant manufacturing challenges on a large scale and to provide the capabilities and facilities required to reduce the cost and risk of commercializing new technologies. While the Institutes would be competitively selected, several areas of innovation illustrate the opportunities that this proposal could help to realize:

Developing lightweight materials, such as low-cost carbon fiber composites (CFC's), that will improve fuel efficiency, performance, and corrosion resistance of the next generation of automobiles, aircraft, ships and trains.

Refining standards, materials, and equipment for “3-D printing”(also known as additive manufacturing) to enable low-cost, small batch production using digital designs that can be transmitted from designers located anywhere.

Creating a smart manufacturing infrastructure and approaches that lets operators make real-time use of “big data” flows from fully-instrumented plants in order to improve productivity, optimize supply chains, and improve energy, water, and materials use.

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--full disclosure-- I thought this press release was interesting and wanted to share it and I don't want to drag this conversation down into a political flame war.

I'd be interested to see where this goes and how quickly the collective intelligence of the RepRap community can bring this technology to the masses.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2012 11:56AM by archistrong.

-DarkAlchemist

If you take a minute and look through the Objet website, the printer is just an upscaled version of their Connex series printers. They use a UV cured resin to build up the model. It has a resolution of up to 16 microns which is why you are not seeing the telltale banding. The machine can hold up to 3 different polymer types (each with different cured material properties) which are then apparently blended on the fly to produce up to 16 distinctly different materials. As it deposits a layer, the UV curing lights on either side of the "print head" solidify the polymer. The model then probably needs to be "baked" in a UV oven to be fully cured.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2012 11:55AM by archistrong.

Ahhh, what they showed looked like it was actually printing it though. Still, I find where all of this is headed fascinating but I fear what the govt is doing because they would be the first to shut us all down in the guise of national security.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Didn't we have this same discussion back when the topic about 3D printed guns came out? If anything the fact that the government is investing in the development of this technology should be a positive sign. The construction of an institute for the distinct purpose of making 3D (additive) printing cheaper and more accessable is a good thing. If we were hearing rumblings about censorship or banning of 3D printers in the same vane as SOPA or PIPA I would be concerned.

Why would the government "shut us down"? For fear of us making what? I stand by the belief that 3D printers are just a tool. Nothing more. The tool does not create the National Security risk. CNC milling machines can be used for nefarious purposes and there are no sanctions on buying one of those. Plasma cutters, welding equipment, heck, even coal fired blacksmith furnaces are all tools and used to create any number of very beneficial products. Could someone use any one of these for less than legal purposes, sure! Yet these tools are perfectly legal simply because they are just that, tools.

How would they "shut us down"? Outlaw the sale of Arduino's and stepper motors? Sure it would slow down the RepRap movement but, again, I don't think you give the RepRap community enough credit for their ingenuity. Before you know it there would be plans on Thingiverse for DIY motors and DIY control boards. By design our machines are built with the most low tech components as possible. That was the whole point of the RepRap movement, people without the technological skills or facilities could build one of these for the purpose of bettering their lives. As 3D printing becomes more and more mainstream and as it becomes more of a commercial product it will be harder for the government to justify wholesale banning of printers.

While I am in NO WAY completely trusting of the government (I don't think any citizen should) I do not feel that the government is looking for a reason to shut us down. With all due respect I appreciate your distrust of the government but that should also be a grain of trust that the government isn't there for the sole purpose of stripping our freedoms.

Yes we did and I stand by what I said but even more so since the govt is now actively in it (as was posted above). If they outlaw this, which they possibly will if they think the average person could suddenly become a terrorist (remember one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter) with untraceable weapons, then only outlaws will have this technology but good luck getting the stuff needed to make that print. Don't be so naive.

Basically the govt is not a good guy nor is any govt. They are investing in this not for our benefit for darn sure. They are R&D'ing for their purposes and to see just how far they can push the technology for war and if they determine this technology can be used for the citizenry to fight them then POOF. You can bet the farm on that.

edit: Don't derail the fact of the original post which was this technology is growing by leaps and bounds and a paradigm shift is coming.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2012 05:59PM by Dark Alchemist.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

i woudn't worry too much about what the government is doing, theres physically too many repraps put thre just in the state alone for them to run around confiscating them and such, plus even if they did they are easy to build and replace, quickly, what you'll find though is when we start adopting other materials ,producing objects with a similar quality standrds and threatening the bottom line of a lot of these companies then i think we'll see some more interesting movements like what is happening with 3dsystems and form labs ,

thejollygrimreaper Wrote:
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> i woudn't worry too much about what the government
> is doing, theres physically too many repraps put
> thre just in the state alone for them to run
> around confiscating them and such, plus even if
> they did they are easy to build and replace,
> quickly, what you'll find though is when we start
> adopting other materials ,producing objects with a
> similar quality standrds and threatening the
> bottom line of a lot of these companies then i
> think we'll see some more interesting movements
> like what is happening with 3dsystems and form
> labs ,

Yes, that is my most fear. See, if we can make bullets by printing with metal or actual bazookas, etc... you can't tell me the govt wouldn't get their panties in a bunch. Now, with what we currently have, I fear the Corporations more though I have no idea what they would do. I mean if I can print X at home or buy X at the store and more and more people are printing it instead of buying it you bet the corporations will gang up on us all. Sort of like the RIAA but for printing. Thingiverse would probably disappear and everything else due to the heat (rightly or wrongly) like the legal file sharing networks do now.

Corporations could make our lives a living hell and couple that with some joint venture with the govt not a soul would be able to print anything. This is why I would hope we get something out there that we could easily make our own material to print so it can't be controlled because you know that would be the first thing they would hit like wrapping papers are considered drug paraphernalia in some states even though I used to roll my own cigarettes (Bugle Boy) on occasion when I was younger and before all of this anti craze hit the USA.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

There are two materials at the top of my list for printing with, pva glue possibly with a filler and somthing called sodium silicate which is a real pain to remove from glass but forms , i'm doing tests not on a blend of pva glue and sodium silicate exhaust putty to hopefully make a cheap paste that can be extruded through a 0.5mm nozzle but also dry very quickly, on the other hand i don't think people are going to care if it takes 24 hours to print an object 200x200x100 if it only costs a few dollars in materials and has little risk of a failed print

i wouldn't be to worried just yet, but i'm also in favour of the saying "just because your paranoid , it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"

Aye, and I am intrigued by your glue printing. I would love to print with stuff like that (heck JB Weld would be a good test) but how do you mix the hardener and the base material while printing with it?

Yeah, I am not paranoid I just know how bad things can get. Look in the news and every day people are going nuts and taking out multiple people (like today in Wyoming at a Community College with a sharp object (luckily not a gun) which one report said was a bow and arrow) and all it would take is some sicko to cause a few hundred deaths and find out it was printed and some leftist liberal would be on a rampage to ban 3d printing.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

mixing materials that require a hardener will be a bit of a getting the right ratio for use with 3d printing or simply using two chambers and setting the ration in gcode, the possibilites are endless there, because if you had say 4 or 5 different chambers loaded with different materials then your object could have say a rubbery component on one side and the other side could be a hard ceramic,

serynges generally are less than $0.40 a piece and would survive several uses with most pastes i imagine,

i've got a test going here at the moment with pva and sodium silicate and just normal sodium silicate, so far it looks quite promising, the pva and sodium silicate mix was hard enough after two minutes at room temperature for another theoretical layer to be put on top, even pva glue on it's own with a bit of warmth will dry fairly fast so it'll be interesting,

i might start a list of materials to try out and maybe if i've got enough stepper drivers left i might look at building a dual paste extruder with a mixer in between to try materials that need a hardener, one material i would like to try is known as heatset ink, it is used in the printing industry on glossy magazines and can be purchased for around $10 to $15 a kilo, then there is a uv curable ink as asll with is priced in a similar way, if any of that were mixed with a fine filler you would have a very strong material to build objects with

Well, the mixing process is something I really want to see because I have mixed many an epoxy and by hand I even have trouble sometimes so I am really intrigued at how you can pull it off.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

if you mix and epoxy and a hardener it's normally a case of more hardener means it hardens faster, however this is depenant on the brand and type of hardener and epoxy as well,

More hardener also means it will be more brittle most times. Too little hardener and it stays too pliable.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

the problem with expoies is that there are that many manifactures of the stuff, other than looking at the msds you just don't know what they put in them

Yeah.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

running on the idea of dual paste extrusion and mixing mechanisms , i was doing a few tests looking for a cheapish hardening agent, interestingly enough loctite when mixed with pva glue, acrylic paint and exhaust putty will cause the mixture to harden almost instantly if not within a few seconds,
the problem is loctite is rather expensive, i wouldn't mind trying out poly-urathane as a printing material with a filler and some sort of cheap hardener

What does your extruder look like? Like a cupcake one with the syringes?

Interesting about the instantly hard part but does it degrade over time? Say a week later it is still hard and not brittle or turning too flexible?

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

just uses 10ml syringes very similar to the universal paste extruder but uses a screw thread to force the plunger down instead, the hardener testing wasn't very long term so i don't know yet how it performs over the long term i'm fairly optimistic about pva glue though especially with some kind of a fine filler in it

i have had the suggestion of using something simple like liquid nails which works out to something like $2 per 320grams or $6 ish a kilo
which makes a lot of sense, the only thing todo if you want large parts that are stiff would be to brace them with lengths of threaded rod or internal cavities that can be filled with a casting resin later,

I forgot all about liquid nails and they come in various sizes from a tube to a caulking gun size but doesn't that already have a hardener in it cause I haven't used it in years but I never remember a hardener being needed.

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

you don't really need one it's thick enough and goes tacky pretty quick

What is the tensile strength of it when hard, do you know?

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I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

not sure, but i would be interesting to test it out i just wish i had a tenometer

thejollygrimreaper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I estimate that by mid to late next year if not
> sooner a significant percentage of us may dump the
> idea of using filament feedstock entirely in
> favour of using much cheaper resins and
> ceramic/polymer mixes which literally cost less
> than $5 a kilo ...

What materials are you exactly talking about? I have never heard of a resin or a ceramic/polymer mix costing less than the commonly available industrial plastics such as ABS.