ABS/PLA safety during Pregnancy

My wife got pregnant the same week my Solidoodle 2 arrived. She has been very concerned about the smell of ABS plastic and is convinced it will harm the child. I am extruding at 190-200 degrees with the bed at 100 degrees. I have added a polycarbonate case which is mostly airtight and a 3" duct with a fan that leads out the window, She still smells it. I have offered to start using PLA as I have been told it is safer, but she's unconvinced. I am also looking into adding a carbon filter.

Can anyone link to any scientific and reliable studies of ABS and/or PLA that assess the toxicity at the temperature levels of a 3D printer?

Anyone have any advice on how to mitigate any toxins that may (or may not) be released when printing?

I really don't want to choose between my printer and my unborn child =).

Any help is appreciated.

i'm not sure there has been much looking into on this topic, i know from experience that pregnant women can develop sensitive nose,

without knowing which brand or abs/pla your using i'd recommend not printing anything until you know for sure, and if possible relocate the printer when in use, i recall a bit of a debate over wether carbon filters work with abs/pla fumes,

I don't' know of any "long term" studies that have been done on either ABS or PLA, but ABS can put off some nasty fumes when it is overheated. Even at proper temperature, I've seen asthmatics react to ABS fumes and a few people complain about headaches. I haven't seen those reactions to PLA, but that doesn't mean that PLA is any safer.

Carbon filters rated for plastic fumes (like a respirator) will filter the fumes of PLA and ABS, but they are only rated for about 8 hours of filtering.

There are several ventilation systems on thingverse that are cheap to build, that could be used to keep the fumes out of the house.

Personally, I wouldn't risk exposing a pregnant woman to the fumes - but I have no real science to back that opinion up.

[url=http:// m.instructables.com/id/Is-3D-Printing-Safe-or-DIY-Testing-for-HCN-from-/]Have a look at this study, should give you some comfort[/url]

Short answer... No problem

Do not bother reading the garbage posted on Instructables. It was incomplete and written by a company that wants to sell you their filament.

Either don't print, move the printer to a "safe location" where you wife isn't, or otherwise isolate and ventilate. Whatever you do, don't listen to the mercenary crap that was noted from Instructables. One of the worst written defenses I've ever seen.

if your wife is sensitive to the abs then vent it or put it in the garage.

here is an msds i found form google. [www.plasticsmadesimple.com]

I don't know of any specific controlled studies on this. PLA may be safer, but just because it's derived from natural sources doesn't mean they don't use some pretty nasty chemicals in its manufacture.

I'm not one to believe all the hype about toxic plastics destroying our society, but I would be more cautious around children. They are still developing, and things that won't bother an adult can cause damage to them. I'd be more concerned once the child is born though, as the placental barrier will probably offer a fair amount of protection. I'm sure you can find a way to vent the fumes and keep everyone happy. Also, try different temperatures and even different plastic suppliers or colors. In my experience, some plastics smell more than others.

My completely unscientific, unqualified opinion on this is:

- ABS fumes aren't the most pleasant, and may have some harmful effect

- I think harm to an adult would be minimal. Children may be more susceptible.

- ABS that's not in the process of being thermoformed is pretty safe, Lego are made from ABS, and anyone in this forum who claims they never put Lego in their mouth as a kid is a liar.

- PLA may be safer, but though it started in a "natural" form, the end product is very heavily manipulated with industrial processes, and bears little resemblance to the start.

PLA is made of polymerised lactic acid, it should be very, very safe. There will be traces of other chemicals (like zinc is used I believe), but that's very unlikely to be a problem. PLA is actually used for medical implants, it's considered very biocompatible.

Be safe, don't risk your kid...and wife............Vent it outside

When someone says "it's safe" you need to ask yourself how sure are they?

Did you know FDA or LMBG approved or FDA compliant only means it falls within the allowable limits....it doesn't mean 0

Ever hear of a cat die because of tumours? chances are that cat had a fettish for chewing power cords or was exposed to PVC. Very common material around the house.

Now how about all these silicone products comming out on the market that everyone loves so much have varying amounts of residual chemicals from the catalyst used in the manufacturing process and unless they are "cooked" off will remain in the formed product for a long time. 99% of the factories I audited didn't do this to the finished product.

... most PLA filament is blended with additives for colour, reducing humidity-sensitiviness or adusting the melting temperature ... or simply, because the manufacturer used some coating in his extruders to prevent it from binding to the machine surface ...

In my basement I'm installed a system of 120mm wide tubes above the working places and a ventilator, that blow the received air through the window - so connecting a housed printer or venting soldering fumes is no problem ... it's only a bit noisy, when running ...

Another option is a charcoal laser-fumes absorber - this is a comercial one, but even more noisy: [reprap.org]

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Yeah, but realistically, many common things contain poisons.

Mushrooms?

Mushrooms contain hydrazine chemicals.

Hydrazine is a horribly poisonous chemical. It's not toxic in the short-haul, but it gives you cancer down the road.

Orange juice? Contains methanol.

Mehanol is pretty poisonous.

PLA is very, very safe; it's just solidified lactic acid. Lactic acid is completely natural.

ABS isn't very safe. PVC isn't very safe. I wouldn't put those in my mouth as an adult; they leach stuff. PVC is made with plasticisers that are known hormone disrupters.

Polyethylene isn't bad. You can put that in your mouth without any known problem at all. It's solidified ethylene, which doesn't seem to be toxic.

i mean sure, there could be unknown things about polyethylene or PLA that are bad, but that's true of literally anything, including things you frequently eat.

The volitiles that are released when ABS is melted are listed below, along with their Material Safety Datasheets*: (information from the ABS MSDS.)

Phenolic Compounds (a plastic resin) - MSDS
Nitrogen Oxide - MSDS
Hydrogen Bromide - MSDS
Carbon Monoxide - MSDS
Small amounts of Hydrogen Cyanide - MSDS
Small amounts of Styrene - MSDS

Phenolic Compounds are pretty benign and won't do much harm. Nitrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Bromide and Carbon Monoxide are all capable of damaging respriatory related organs, red blood cells, and mucus membranes. Hydrogen Cyanide is nasty, nasty stuff and should be avoided when possible. Its damage is also cumulative over a period of months, so even a low-level but continuous exposure can do a lot of damage. Styrene is a known Carcinogen, so pregnant women should also avoid it, even if it is presend in small amounts.

In short, you need to be serious about the warning to print with ABS only in a well ventilated room at a minimum. A ventilation hood would be better.

The PLA MSDS lists these volatiles when it is melted or burning:

Aldehydes
Carbon Monoxide
Carbon Dioxide

The small amounts of Carbon Dioxide generated is pretty benign. The Aldehydes and Carbon Monoxide can damage respritory organs and mucus membranes. It is still a good idea to only print in a well ventilated room.

*The MSDS's listed are on pure substances being sold in the industry, not directly from the byproducts emitted from melting ABS.

PeteD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hydrogen Cyanide is nasty, nasty
> stuff and should be avoided when possible. Its
> damage is also cumulative over a period of months,
> so even a low-level but continuous exposure can do
> a lot of damage.

This statement is quite incorrect. Making this sort of statement is irresponsible, scare mongering even.

Please refer to [www.hpa.org.uk]. HCN is found widely in the environment at low-levels, does not have a chronic impact, is not a carcinogen, and is not believed to have any impact on development. There is a cumulative impact, which is why there are RELs, but if the exposure is removed so is the risk.

Either you do not know what you are talking about, or you are being very careless.

> *The MSDS's listed are on pure substances being
> sold in the industry, not directly from the
> byproducts emitted from melting ABS.

Indeed, and picking worst case scenarios from these is very misleading. The only relevant data is whether the actual exposure from use in a printer exceeds Recomended Exposure Levels.

To the OP: if your wife is worried, I don't think MSDS data or REL's are going to reassure her, the worry will still be there. People's instinct is that if something smells unpleasant, it is probably bad. Stress is probably more harmful than any potential chemical exposure. If there are any complications (I sincerely hope there won't be), there might be a residual suspicion there. I would do whatever is needed to reassure her. It might not be logical, but life is not always about logic.

bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PeteD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hydrogen Cyanide is nasty, nasty
> > stuff and should be avoided when possible. Its
> > damage is also cumulative over a period of
> months,
> > so even a low-level but continuous exposure can
> do
> > a lot of damage.
>
> This statement is quite incorrect. Making this
> sort of statement is irresponsible, scare
> mongering even.
>
> Please refer to
> [www.hpa.org.uk]
> 2487077488. HCN is found widely in the environment
> at low-levels, does not have a chronic impact, is
> not a carcinogen, and is not believed to have any
> impact on development. There is a cumulative
> impact, which is why there are RELs, but if the
> exposure is removed so is the risk.

I am at a loss as to what is incorrect, and what is corrected by providing the pdf. I don't see anything mentioned about it beng a carcinogen in the first place. I see it being referred to as nasty stuff that should be avoided. I see the pdf say

Exposure to hydrogen cyanide and its solutions may be fatal by all routes of exposure
Features are mostly non-specific and include headache, nausea, dizziness and
difficultly breathing
High concentrations may cause loss of consciousness, abnormal heart rhythm, coma
and death
Long term exposure to low levels of cyanide may affect the nervous system
Dangerous for the environment

I see two people and the pdf all state that there is a cumulative effect. I see the pdf say that it is discharged from volcanoes, cigarettes, and engine exhausts.

I'm gonna go with HCN being nasty stuff, avoid when possible, and hope not to suffer from cumulative effects.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2012 03:01PM by Deckard.

I'd side with Bobc on this, whilst I have no problem sitting beside my printer whilst it's chugging away I wouldn't want to risk either self guilt or potential recriminations if something happened to your unborn child (despite the fact that it would probably be completely unrelated). Stick the printer in the garage and print from there for 9 mths, make sure your wife know the sacrifice you are making so you can claim on this in the future (God knows you will probably have enough cause over the coming years!)
... and congratulations

bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PeteD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hydrogen Cyanide is nasty, nasty
> > stuff and should be avoided when possible. Its
> > damage is also cumulative over a period of
> months,
> > so even a low-level but continuous exposure can
> do
> > a lot of damage.
>
> This statement is quite incorrect. Making this
> sort of statement is irresponsible, scare
> mongering even.
>
> Please refer to
> [www.hpa.org.uk]
> 2487077488. HCN is found widely in the environment
> at low-levels, does not have a chronic impact, is
> not a carcinogen, and is not believed to have any
> impact on development. There is a cumulative
> impact, which is why there are RELs, but if the
> exposure is removed so is the risk.
>
> Either you do not know what you are talking about,
> or you are being very careless.
>
> > *The MSDS's listed are on pure substances being
> > sold in the industry, not directly from the
> > byproducts emitted from melting ABS.
>
> Indeed, and picking worst case scenarios from
> these is very misleading. The only relevant data
> is whether the actual exposure from use in a
> printer exceeds Recomended Exposure Levels.
>
> To the OP: if your wife is worried, I don't think
> MSDS data or REL's are going to reassure her, the
> worry will still be there. People's instinct is
> that if something smells unpleasant, it is
> probably bad. Stress is probably more harmful than
> any potential chemical exposure. If there are any
> complications (I sincerely hope there won't be),
> there might be a residual suspicion there. I would
> do whatever is needed to reassure her. It might
> not be logical, but life is not always about
> logic.

I am not trying to 'scare monger' and I am certainly not being irresponsible by going to the industry datasheets to find out what chemicals are being released by these plastics and stating what dangers they may present. I am only attempting to show what the industry at large has to say about these byproducts.

The OP was wether it was safe for a pregnant woman to be exposed to the fumes from melting ABS and PLA plastic. What has posted so far had been mostly anecdotal, based on people's experience as adults exposed to these byproducts.

All of the byproducts you would see from a 3D printer listed in my earlier post should be well below the levels that the MSDS's say would cause damage in a healthy adult. However, we are not talking about a healthy adult. We're talking about a developing fetus, and there appears to be no data available for what a safe level of exposure could be.

Considering that lack of data, would anyone really want to risk exposing a pregnant woman to these fumes if it can be avoided?