Thingiverse goes down the rabbit hole

I'm pro-gun. That doesn't mean pro-assault rifle. There isn't a single reason anybody NEEDS to have an assault rifle or any gun with high capacity mags. I keep a Glock 26 in my house for personal defense. 14 rounds and I never keep it chambered. If I need 14 rounds to stop an intruder then a gun was never going to offer me any help anyways.

As far as protecting us against Tyranny.... REALLY? The US Govt has the MOST sophisticated armory in the entire world. Your AR-15 is no match and doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Off tangent from above....

"....... but an adherence to an outdated and obsolete piece of text, written in a completely different age."

That sounds like another very popular book written a long time ago.... Bible

Everyone on this forum on the guns side seems very rational and that's great - very good at putting fwd their points for defence, etc.
When i was a kid my mother married 5 diff blokes and 'entertained' many more - shes a complete nutter. The blokes she brought around
where complete nutter who owned guns.
Perhaps they have a right to defend themselves, etc but what about my right to live without the fear of being shot. (got to be something in your constitution about that).
i remember my mother got sick of one bloke (who own two guns that where in the cupboard). she and i chucked all his stuff out onto the lawn
and locked him out. when he returned I was the only one home (10 or 11 years old I suppose).
he bashed on the door, ranted at me thru the window, etc for a hour or so then left. was he going to get his guns??
(he went and got some welders tongs to remove the nails in the windows to break in).
please don;t say I sould have had my own gun to shoot back and defend myself.

groovy story now but scary then.

these guys weren't mentally ill just dickheads.

sure your glock 26 is locked up now - but what about a domestic, what if you wife is having an affair, what if you become mentally ill, what if the intruder is really just you drunk daughter sneaking home....

rog.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2013 02:49AM by rogerw.

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Prusa 'Explorer' (3dStuffMaker), GEN6, J-head Mk III-B, Bowden Extruder, Marlin 1.0.0 RC2, Repitier-Host V0.84 and Slic3r 0.9.8, PLA. Live at Victoria, Australia.

Dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm pro-gun. That doesn't mean pro-assault rifle.
> There isn't a single reason anybody NEEDS to have
> an assault rifle or any gun with high capacity
> mags. I keep a Glock 26 in my house for personal
> defense. 14 rounds and I never keep it chambered.
> If I need 14 rounds to stop an intruder then a
> gun was never going to offer me any help anyways.
>
> As far as protecting us against Tyranny....
> REALLY? The US Govt has the MOST sophisticated
> armory in the entire world. Your AR-15 is no
> match and doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy
> inside.
>
> Off tangent from above....
>
> "....... but an adherence to an outdated and
> obsolete piece of text, written in a completely
> different age."
>
> That sounds like another very popular book written
> a long time ago.... Bible

+1

rogerw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone on this forum on the guns side seems very
> rational and that's great - very good at putting
> fwd their points for defence, etc.
> When i was a kid my mother married 5 diff blokes
> and 'entertained' many more - shes a complete
> nutter. The blokes she brought around
> where complete nutter who owned guns.
> Perhaps they have a right to defend themselves,
> etc but what about my right to live without the
> fear of being shot. (got to be something in your
> constitution about that).
> i remember my mother got sick of one bloke (who
> own two guns that where in the cupboard). she and
> i chucked all his stuff out onto the lawn
> and locked him out. when he returned I was the
> only one home (10 or 11 years old I suppose).
> he bashed on the door, ranted at me thru the
> window, etc for a hour or so then left. was he
> going to get his guns??
> (he went and got some welders tongs to remove the
> nails in the windows to break in).
> please don;t say I sould have had my own gun to
> shoot back and defend myself.
>
> groovy story now but scary then.
>
> these guys weren't mentally ill just dickheads.
>
> sure your glock 26 is locked up now - but what
> about a domestic, what if you wife is having an
> affair, what if you become mentally ill, what if
> the intruder is really just you drunk daughter
> sneaking home....
>
> rog.


Interesting. I figure there are many reasons for and just as many against gun laws. The problem, in my humble opinion, is not guns, knives, etc... It is the current social paradigm in which we all live. We don't have resources to treat mental illness and we aren't doing a good enough job at acknowledging how important it is to get psychological help when it is necessary. It is taboo to discuss both matters and I feel both are the main culprit to violent human behavior. If I ever need psychological care I for one will not feel less of a man for doing so. The most important thing in my life is to make sure I'm in a good place mentally. If you can't help yourelf then you will never be any good for anybody else.

Of course, I'm not one of those types that thinks spewing whats wrong is actually doing any good. It's easy to say whats wrong with this world, it's another entirely to say what can fix it.

I wish we lived in a world where I didn't need to keep a gun for defense. I personally am only for guns because of the world around me and not because I have an affinity for them. As for me and mine, a glock will be present just in case...

dan,
i agree. too many people with no hope and no money will turn to drugs and crime and violence.
i think i can understand how you guys feel from what i have been reading.
it seems things in parts of the U.S. are a bit out of control with violence.
Its same here in some places but not large scale and the police are very good, well respected, and go ape if anything really bad happens.
do you live in a place where you are likely to be attacked like the cities previously mentioned? Surely 80 million people don't live in such places?
its a chicken and the egg thing - doesn't seem like any one is going to even consider gun control until the violence stops and the violence wont stop because it is so easy to get a gun.
rog.

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Prusa 'Explorer' (3dStuffMaker), GEN6, J-head Mk III-B, Bowden Extruder, Marlin 1.0.0 RC2, Repitier-Host V0.84 and Slic3r 0.9.8, PLA. Live at Victoria, Australia.

even if you somehow did clean up the crime and made everyone healthy and happy you would still have the people
who want a gun to rise up against the govt - and these seem to be the ones with the big guns.
how many people would have guns for this reason do you think. if there was no street crime how many of the 80 million would still
be retained to rise up against the govt.?

---

Prusa 'Explorer' (3dStuffMaker), GEN6, J-head Mk III-B, Bowden Extruder, Marlin 1.0.0 RC2, Repitier-Host V0.84 and Slic3r 0.9.8, PLA. Live at Victoria, Australia.

rogerw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> even if you somehow did clean up the crime and
> made everyone healthy and happy you would still
> have the people
> who want a gun to rise up against the govt - and
> these seem to be the ones with the big guns.
> how many people would have guns for this reason do
> you think. if there was no street crime how many
> of the 80 million would still
> be retained to rise up against the govt.?

I for one am all for laws that keep guns away from those types. Who needs an assault rifle. Is a shotgun, rifle, or handgun not enough to defend your home and your family? get real.

Pro gun law refom, anti gun prohibition. It's a simple comprimise.

bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bbriggstkd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So you are automatically assuming that anyone
> who
> > wants to print a gun or gun parts is doing it
> for
> > evil purposes?
>
> Yes, guns are inherently evil.
>
> Next.

Only a pacifist can say that.

If you believe that guns are evil, I hope you are petitioning, arguing, and advocating for all militaries to have all there guns removed.

You must be against every military having guns, and if a police officer is armed, then against every one of those police also to say that.

If you are not campaigning for that, in whatever way you advocate for things, then you don't believe guns are evil, you just think you know who should have a gun, and who should not have a gun.

No AR lower will EVER see 50K PSI in normal opperation. Its a just a trigger/main spring group. All the fun stuff is in the upper.

bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is academic in the sense that Defense
> Distributed will never be able to print out any
> useful gun parts. That is a red herring. They are
> living in cloud cuckoo land, both political and
> engineering, where guns are magic talismans
> warding off evil, and printed parts can withstand
> 50,000 psi.
>

Kina dumb. This folows the same rationale as If we allow gay to marry whats next? people and sheep? If we allow black to vote whats next? Women? Then cows?

Its about a level playing field. Criminals already took the advantage.

konwiddak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's say you allow guns for "self defence" if you
> agree with that or not.
>
> Well if your allowed guns, why not a grenade
> launcher. They are the same tool with the same
> purpose. ttacks you with a gun what

@ bobc

They *already* have a *working* firearm. The AR-15 lower *is* the firearm, everything else is just a modular component.

[www.youtube.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 07:02PM by akhlut.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Just because you don't *need* an asult rifle isn't a reason to ban them. Hey, you don't *need* that Glock either, a smooth bore musket can work too.

One doesn't *need* a TV or microwave oven either.

I agree with the 14 rounds part (though anything over 10 is considered high capacity) I was looking at a small .45ACP came in 6 or 10 rounds. I want the 6. If 6 won't get me out of trouble neither will 10.

Dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm pro-gun. That doesn't mean pro-assault rifle.
> There isn't a single reason anybody NEEDS to have
> an assault rifle or any gun with high capacity
> mags. I keep a Glock 26 in my house for personal
> defense. 14 rounds and I never keep it chambered.
> If I need 14 rounds to stop an intruder then a
> gun was never going to offer me any help anyways.
>
> As far as protecting us against Tyranny....
> REALLY? The US Govt has the MOST sophisticated
> armory in the entire world. Your AR-15 is no
> match and doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy
> inside.
>
> Off tangent from above....
>
> "....... but an adherence to an outdated and
> obsolete piece of text, written in a completely
> different age."
>
> That sounds like another very popular book written
> a long time ago.... Bible

I get a kick out of all the self righteous talk about "Americans being crazier than thought" or "no one needs an assault rifle". No matter what the sheeple say or do that go along with all efforts to control the population, Liberty always wins. It may take a while after each "bandaid" regulation, but Liberty is like escaping gas and the balloon eventually fails. There is nothing any government can do to stop the People. Government regulation only throws natural development out of equilibrium, thereby providing unfair advantage to a few. That is how GEs and Microsofts are made. Eventually, the People must self-regulate from internal understanding. No government, activist group, or individual will ever force regulation upon another indefinitely. The "genie" of Liberty always gets out.

your banks seemed to 'self regulate' pretty well - NOT - now we are all in the shit hole

---

Prusa 'Explorer' (3dStuffMaker), GEN6, J-head Mk III-B, Bowden Extruder, Marlin 1.0.0 RC2, Repitier-Host V0.84 and Slic3r 0.9.8, PLA. Live at Victoria, Australia.

I want you to consider this. In America all guns combined kill less than 10% of the alcohol related deaths. No one here wants to take on that issues, likely because your drinking as you read my post or know at least 10 people who do drink regularly. Wait I know lets ignore tobacco related death as well. Again this subject is "ok" for everyone to ignore because it is self inflicted right? Well your stupid if you think that gun violence outwieghs the top 10 killers in America plain an simple.

Now as for the guns in question.... AR15/M16 and various other "assualt" rifles. Stop confusing these with AUTOMATIC rifles they are not. Automatic rifles were banned in all 50 US States many decades ago. That means we are only arguing about 2 things. Whether or not I am quick with a bolt action gun or if I can pull the trigger multiple times a minute. Well lets look at this.. How long does it take for me to operate a bolt and empty 10 rounds? Which I know your all going to jump onto the "Thats why high capacity clips must be banned!!!" Again if you know anything about the clips and how they go into EITHER bolt action or AR style rifles you will know that it would add a whole 1 second to my time to switch from an empty 6 round clip to a fresh and full new 6 round clip so add a WHOLE 5 seconds to anyone who uses 6 round clips instead of a single 30 round clip - well to me that is HARDLY GOING TO SAVE A SINGLE LIFE.

What your all saying is that a revolver with 6 shots is fine, no wait your saying a bolt action .308 big ass bullet gun is fine!!! and that so long as I take my .308 and only load 6 rounds then it is all good! Forget the fact that I can have 2 revolvers with speed loaders. 2 .308 rifles on my back and do a mass killing regardless of ever holding an assault rifle??? Plain stupidity.

So many of you post on here crap like "What if a bad guy breaks into you the good guys house and steals the gun then kills people - where is your responsibility???" IT IS NO LONGER MINE you retard. I am not responsible for his actions. I did not invite him in!!! I however will shoot him dead if I am home where you will be lying on the ground dead and possibly molested lacking any self defense.

We see where the governments get control over the guns and how that society ends up trying to fight off the military with sticks. Where this is not true the people own guns. Where this is true the people dont - plain and simple.

Good day and good bye.

coogrrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want you to consider this. In America all guns
> combined kill less than 10% of the alcohol related
> deaths.

Alcohol = NOT DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE
Guns = DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE

Get the false equivalence out of your head


No one here wants to take on that issues,
> likely because your drinking as you read my post
> or know at least 10 people who do drink regularly.
> Wait I know lets ignore tobacco related death as
> well. Again this subject is "ok" for everyone to
> ignore because it is self inflicted right? Well
> your stupid if you think that gun violence
> outwieghs the top 10 killers in America plain an
> simple.

#1 violent killer in America.

>
> Now as for the guns in question.... AR15/M16 and
> various other "assualt" rifles. Stop confusing
> these with AUTOMATIC rifles they are not.

No one is confusing them.

> Automatic rifles were banned in all 50 US States
> many decades ago. That means we are only arguing
> about 2 things.

Well, they are still available if you have the right license.

> Whether or not I am quick with a
> bolt action gun or if I can pull the trigger
> multiple times a minute. Well lets look at this..
> How long does it take for me to operate a bolt and
> empty 10 rounds? Which I know your all going to
> jump onto the "Thats why high capacity clips must
> be banned!!!" Again if you know anything about the
> clips and how they go into EITHER bolt action or
> AR style rifles you will know that it would add a
> whole 1 second to my time to switch from an empty
> 6 round clip to a fresh and full new 6 round clip
> so add a WHOLE 5 seconds to anyone who uses 6
> round clips instead of a single 30 round clip -
> well to me that is HARDLY GOING TO SAVE A SINGLE
> LIFE.

So you prefer prefer everyone to die, instead of "hardly saving a single life"? Your compassion for your fellow man is legendary.

>
> What your all saying is that a revolver with 6
> shots is fine, no wait your saying a bolt action
> .308 big ass bullet gun is fine!!! and that so
> long as I take my .308 and only load 6 rounds then
> it is all good! Forget the fact that I can have 2
> revolvers with speed loaders. 2 .308 rifles on my
> back and do a mass killing regardless of ever
> holding an assault rifle??? Plain stupidity.

Assault rifle ENABLE mass killings because they are EASY TO USE.

>
> So many of you post on here crap like "What if a
> bad guy breaks into you the good guys house and
> steals the gun then kills people - where is your
> responsibility???"

Why wasn't it secured? Irresponsible gun ownership doesn't absolve you if you enable them.

> IT IS NO LONGER MINE you
> retard.

Actually it is. Ask parents who are charged when their teenagers have a party at their house and some kid leaves drunk and has an accident/DWI/kills someone. Don't tell me you're not culpable when you're irresponsible with an instrument of death.

I am not responsible for his actions. I
> did not invite him in!!! I however will shoot him
> dead if I am home where you will be lying on the
> ground dead and possibly molested lacking any self
> defense.

More likely than not you will die in that encounter. Find the statistics that prove me wrong - and not from the NRA or some other self-interest group. Crime statistics, like from the FBI or State Police, you know, REAL information.

>
> We see where the governments get control over the
> guns and how that society ends up trying to fight
> off the military with sticks. Where this is not
> true the people own guns. Where this is true the
> people dont - plain and simple.

Where? Where has this happened? And if it did happen, what was the level of technology in the hands of the average citizen? Did it compare the the military grade hardware available at the time? Prove it. So sick of this fallacy.

>
> Good day and good bye.

You'll be back.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Happy firearm appreciation
day!

I think Im gonna open carry all day.

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coogrrr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Now as for the guns in question.... AR15/M16
> and
> > various other "assualt" rifles. Stop confusing
> > these with AUTOMATIC rifles they are not.
>
> No one is confusing them.

I do. They are rifles as term "assault rifle" implies, and they are capable of full automatic fire (at least some versions), so why they shouldn't fall under automatic rifles category? I always though that assault rifles are subset of automatic rifles, so this surprises me. Can you elaborate more on this (off)topic?

Miso,

Undoubtedly you are correct. There is no real difference between semi-auto and automatic assault rifles - just a trivial modification to the firing mechanism to switch between semi and fully automatic. The only thing that keeps gun owners from making the modification is that full-auto is illegal without the proper license. But to some that license requirement "infringes" on their liberty.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

akhlut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Miso,
>
> Undoubtedly you are correct. There is no real
> difference between semi-auto and automatic assault
> rifles - just a trivial modification to the firing
> mechanism to switch between semi and fully
> automatic. The only thing that keeps gun owners
> from making the modification is that full-auto is
> illegal without the proper license. But to some
> that license requirement "infringes" on their
> liberty.

Well there is a real difference, one shoots continuously when the trigger is held down and the other does not fully manual means you have to cock,pump, or use the bolt action between shots. Do you really think the reason most gun owners don't modify their guns is due to licensing? Bureaucracy is rarely a reason for anything in America, I found England to have more of a mindset that rules are the reason behind people actions.

What I can't wrap my head around is what people think will happen by criminalizing another group of Americans? Or put another way, what is the real goal of gun control? Are we trying to prevent another school shooting or the daily shootings in the streets? Obviously not as guns are easy to get in the black market. I don't see how changing any law will stop criminals in any way, laws only matter to the law abiding. We all know you can't legislate behavior and you can't stop the mentally ill from existing, so what is the point? Seriously I really don't get it. There were 500 homicides last year in Chicago. We have some of the MOST restrictive gun laws in America. How the hell will any law stop any of these deaths? How many gang member do you know are in the streets toting legally owned guns? These guys don't care about going to jail, they spend a majority of their life there becoming better criminals. I know, I meet some of them where I work every month. If someone could explain to me how any law would change their behavior in the real world, I would be willing to reconsider my stance. Until then I will see this as yet another right of mine as an American being threatened.

jzatopa,

Who is talking about criminalizing anyone? Do you think existing assault weapons wouldn't be grandfathered in? Besides, the AWB is going to go nowhere in Congress, as well as the HiCap Magazine ban. It isn't politically expedient. Besides, it's going to be the hot-button issue in the mid-term elections.

I think the real reason there are so many guns on the street is leakage. By that I mean it is entirely too easy for a straw purchaser to buy guns in a low/no verification environment and then sell them in a restricted zone on the black market. Chicago can have the strictest laws in the nation, but if you can go over to Indiana and buy a gun then the Chicago gun restriction is toothless. Local gun policy is meaningless - a National policy is necessary.

If you want to cut down on violent crime universal background check should be mandatory, including a mental health screening. This isn't a controversial position, it's common sense. It will cut down on the number of weapons on the black market, and it will keep weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill. It's a win-win.

Personally I'd like to see a national gun registry. After all, I have to register my car every year. Why shouldn't a deadly weapon have to be registered when it changes hands?

Another way to cut back on violent crime? Legalize marijuana. Criminal gangs will still be there, but how much more resources will be available to deal with them? I would argue that legalization would not only cause a precipitous decline in violent crime but would provide huge cost reductions to the states. What is the cone of expenses involved with a marijuana possession arrest? In Colorado, a state of 5 million people, the estimated savings to the CO justice system per year is $12 million (Colorado Center for Law and Policy). Extrapolate that to the rest of the country ~ $750 million per year in savings. The FBI estimates that a marijuana possession arrest occurs every 42 seconds. Think about what the police could do if they didn't have to deal with these frivolous (but currently mandated) arrests? How many more cops could be put on the street for $750 million?

I do agree with you - jail is just a training ground for criminals. All the more reason to keep minor drug offenders out of the justice system all together.
Additionally they would unclog the court system and more criminals could be prosecuted faster.

Laws fundamentally change behavior. Simply examine the current drug laws/prohibitions. Then go back in time and look at alcohol prohibition. Same policy approaches. Same outcomes. The 21st Amendment is an example of policy that changed behavior. Laws work. Policies works. Are there still bootleggers? Sure. Hell, there is a show about bootlegging on TV and these guys show their faces like it's no big deal. Is it a real problem? No.

Look, I don't want to infringe on anyone's right to bear arms but there has to be a reasonable limitation to that right. After all, you can't roll down to the dealership and buy an M1A1 MBT. I realize that is an extreme example, but it makes my point.

And for everyone out there who thinks that having guns in your home makes you safer, check this story out. Or this one.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2013 08:33AM by akhlut.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

Well, I just logged back on to Makerbotiverse and I must ask why in the hell did they remove all dates from the contributions? If it is there it is so hidden I couldn't even find them on my own work. I use that information for all sorts of reasons and they removed it.

Just insane.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 01:16PM by Dark Alchemist.

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_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

further down the hole.

xclusive585 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> further down the hole.

Well, I really looked to find the dates as I was trying to see when I posted something to know which blu-ray it might be on and I couldn't find it. So I went off to other posts and it wasn't there either.

If the date really has been taken away how would we know whose work came before someone else? I got into it with someone over a ladder I made. I made it after someone else made theirs but they were nothing alike. After it was all said and done I removed my work because I refuse to give credit where it is not due but I absolutely will when and if it really does belong to someone. Instead of fighting I just removed it (the guy did say it was absolutely the most detailed he had ever seen on the verse and it should have been I spent 3 weeks with my Caliper, etc...) but now we can't tell whose work came before someone else.

They really have dumbed it down.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.