MakiBox $200 Complete 3D Printer

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> xlcusive585: I see you didn't bother to touch upon
> my point of viability because when it is all said
> and done it WILL be a fad UNLESS we move away from
> filament. I say this knowing that most people
> don't even use printers like they did a decade ago
> (I read that stat last month). I still stand by
> my premise that filament printers (not RepRap but
> let me repeat that for the ones with a reading
> impairment not RepRap) are not of the future
> because there is too much inherently wrong with
> it. What this community should be doing, since so
> many people love to bring up 3rd world countries,
> is figuring out ways to make it viable for
> everyone outside of knick-knacks and bricabrac.
> Do the scrap and trash idea for printing materials
> instead of filament which takes a lot of resources
> to make (I can only estimate what the carbon foot
> print to make a roll must be like) BUT you can't
> make money with scrap and trash. Yes, the above
> poster was spot on about the money part because I
> see that too much. From people over valuing their
> worth to the world to people charging 140+ dollars
> to make a few items off of their printer.
>
> So, here is something you need to digest and that
> is I asked, on irc, why people are charging so
> much for the plastic pieces? I was told because
> they have to make them a few times as some pieces
> will have flaws in them. BOOOOOOM headshot
> because if a 3d filament printer is messing up, so
> they said in irc, to print a simple item like some
> Mendel I2 plastic parts then how can ANY of you
> say this is yet ready for a mass consumer market?
> Not having a printer or having one is immaterial
> to this discussion at hand because the ones who
> have way more knowledge of RepRaps than I do admit
> it has a lot of flaws. Flaws in a consumer market
> is not something to be tolerated but right now it
> is in the hobbyist market so it seems to be more
> acceptable. Are people working on this issue?
> Sure, but we have things like Makibot ripping off
> the OS (sorry I consider it stealing ip if you
> grab an idea and make money with it you might not)
> to sell a 200 dollar printer and every last one of
> you know, at least deep down, that it will be a
> POS. Do we really want a POS out there to ruin
> the perception of this? NO, absolutely not.
>
> So, not having a printer allows me to have
> something that apparently you lack xclusive585
> (btw, that was not a put down at all) and that is
> a clean perspective like someone looking in
> instead of someone so caught up in their own
> machines, and movement, that they have become
> slightly blinded. What you need are more people
> with a clean perspective that haven't been tainted
> with owning a machine yet so they can give you
> unbiased opinions.
>
> Basically I am saying to step back and realize you
> have lost your objectivity because when people
> come out to attack me it shows they are NOT as
> secure in their beliefs as they wish to be (sort
> of like Christians do if you question the bible (I
> will leave that statement where it is so we don't
> start down that road)).
>
> I will own one but it will take time and when I do
> you can bet my perspective will change but my
> knowledge of what a filament printer is and what
> it will become AND its worldly usefulness will not
> change...it is a toy and will always be one
> because it uses a filament of plastic.


You really really really need to look at other examples of technological advancement. You blindly assume that reprap will not advance technologically, apparently you are not aware of the advancements made in just five years.
This is driven by smart individuals all doing their own part to bring things along. To assume that we will not advance one little bit shows your overall lack of how technology works and how it changes everything. I'm not sure of your age but given your attitude I'm going to guess you're just a little too young to remember a time before the internet and cell phones.

But you keep sitting there crying about this and that instead of contributing. Not too respectable, my friend

... I'm thinking about splitting this thread, as it's going OT

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

xclusive585 Wrote:
> But you keep sitting there crying about this and
> that instead of contributing. Not too respectable,
> my friend
Yep, you are too attached to your god the machine.

You just proved you don't read because had you actually read my posts you would have seen where I said I knew of a time before the microwave oven and how long it took to cook/heat stuff up. That should have wized you up.

Anyway by you not reading what I have said you show you are too stuck into your dogma to wake up and realize anything. You are still refusing to accept, or even acknowledge (because you don't actually read), the fact that a 3d printer using plastic filament is as worthless to a 3rd world country as tits are on a boar hog.

I will now cease to read what you have written.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

VDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... I'm thinking about splitting this thread, as
> it's going OT
Yes, I must concur and even though I keep trying to bring Makibox back into the conversation people are not allowing it. Split it off or kill it either is fine by me.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Advancements in the past 5 years in RepRap?

Can you be more specific please, I have been following RepRap since its inception and have yet to see any huge improvements.

coresnake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Advancements in the past 5 years in RepRap?
>
> Can you be more specific please, I have been
> following RepRap since its inception and have yet
> to see any huge improvements.

Then



Now



See more Here With some reference to Nophead as well.

No advancement? Sounds like more rubbish

(Viktor, yes please split this thread, this is not going to end...)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 02:12PM by xclusive585.

... ouchhh --- tried to split the thread into two ( [forums.reprap.org] ), but the software separates only the selected post and creates a new topic with it ... so I'll have to separate, find and move/merge every single post from the last three sides, what's a really big pile of work

Don't think, this is practical with this amount of posts

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

I guess add that to the list of what is needed with the new forum software.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Nice,, replying with a render of a machine that may or may not exist

I've seen it working - MakerFaire NYC 2012.

But don't take my word for it...see for yourself.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 04:56PM by akhlut.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

That is very interesting to hear akhlut, do you also happen to have a source for a full building guide? I have so far merely found a bare FAQ for solving problems on machines that have already been built. Seems kind of like a chicken & egg problem.

Looks pretty real to me:

How do you build it though.

I'm not sure there is an instruction manual, but it looks like there are some assembly videos on youtube.

I don't know if the MAX is open source yet though.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

There is an instruction manual it's here
[www.geneb.org]
The design files are publicly available on the reprap wiki, it uses injection moded parts and laser cut parts so it's not very DIY without a laser cutter.


I have one it's not a particularly difficult build, took me about 15 hours, I could do it faster a second time.
I'm very impressed with it, the sleeved bearings running on the extrusions and the GT2 belts running in the extrusion slots are pretty neat, and works surprisingly well.
The whole design is well thought out down to running the wiring and compartments in the base for the electronics.

The firmware could still use some work, the hacks on top of Marlin seem to cause intermittent issue in the path planner where if the speed is low enough it seems to ignore the requested speed, and occasionally motion isn't smooth. The development version Repetier firmware, doesn't have these issues, but there are still gotchas, like all the host software sends G28 X0 Y0 Z0 for the homing command, but this is somewhat meaningless for a delta printer so it behaves unexpectedly.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 05:58PM by Polygonhell.

Quote
coresnake
How do you build it though.

[www.reprap.org]

Or go directly to the PDF assembly manual.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 05:43PM by rhmorrison.

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

Thanks rhmorrison for that manual I might give it a shot!

Also thanks PolygonHell

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2013 06:08PM by coresnake.

@Dark Alchemist,
I don't have a RepRap yet either and for similar reasons--well, I had gone back to school about when news of the first RepRap started showing up so I didn't have the disposable income needed to put one together.

I'm also interested in improving RepRap and making it more accessible. My ultimate goal is to make it capable of printing electronics into the 3D structure. There are many mechanical and materials problems that need to be solved before that is possible, but there are also some electronics problems that have to be solved. For example, I've never been really happy with the existing motor drivers. That said, they work; it's just that I can't help but feel that there must be a better way to do it, so I keep working on developing a better mechanism for driving the motors. You won't see my posts about that as I haven't come up with a solution that I'm really happy with yet.

Since I have a good background in electronics, I try and participate where possible in the electronics forums. Since I have a decent background in Linear Algebra, I helped out in the delta-bot forum by explaining the math behind the coordinate transformation that the rostock platform uses, and the problems with using bots with more than three arms. I even worked out what the best ratio of arm length to column spacing is, for a given set of constraints.

Since you clearly have some complaints about what RepRap does and doesn't do, may I suggest finding the relevant forum and proposing practical design upgrades? Please note that when I say "practical" what I mean is less of "we should use X technology" and more of "Here is my design which uses X technology; here are my design files and here's where you can buy the non-printable parts to make it." All of the software that we use to design parts is open-source, so that shouldn't be a financial burden.

If you have access to a maker-space's RepRap, you could use that to build the parts you need to test a better print-head, for example. Building a test printhead should be significantly less expensive than building the whole bot, so the financial consideration would, hopefully, be manageable.

With regards to printing technology, we're using FDM because it's the easiest to control, and it's not orientation-dependent. It's slow, or it's low-resolution. There's no argument there, this is the problem with all printing: for a given level of technology, there is a tradeoff between speed and quality. But we're using the 3D equivalent of a 1-pin dot matrix printer. Other technologies are out there, but they work on parallel print paths So far, we haven't worked out a good way to print a ribbon of plastic (or any other material). If you've got an idea on how to do that, please put a design together and show it to us.

Regarding lasers, the problem with lasers in a hobby environment is safety. If you have a 1-W laser melting things, the optical splash is enough to cause serious eye damage. As a result, we don't recommend laser-based deposition. I, for one, would love to see hobby-grade selective laser sintering (SLS), but the problem is the safety.

Please note that when I say "practical" what I mean is less of "we should use X technology" and more of "Here is my design which uses X technology; here are my design files and here's where you can buy the non-printable parts to make it." - With money all things are within reach and with money I would be designing a lot as that is what I used to do as a kid. I loved designing electronics and electrical things so you can bet I will be doing that a lot once I get a printer. First thing I will be doing is suring up the printer since the I2 is not very stable.

As far as lasers go you have to enclose the laser so the person using it will not instantly blast an eye out and go blind. Use goggles, like you are supposed to use with any power tools, made for laser protection. You don't use them then they are considered an idiot. No need for splash around when you have 400mw lasers in blu-ray burners now. 1 watt can be eclosed for safety after it has been tweaked but don't forget your glasses.

Fact is future consumer grade 3d printers will have very little you can see or touch just like our modern inkjet printers evolved into (so many laws they do it to protect their own asses even if it can be proved the end user was a freaking retarded imbecile AND never followed the instructions).

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With money all things are within reach and
> with money I would be designing a lot as that is
> what I used to do as a kid. I loved designing
> electronics and electrical things so you can bet I
> will be doing that a lot once I get a printer.
> First thing I will be doing is suring up the
> printer since the I2 is not very stable.

My point is that you can do design work even if you can't build the design.

> As far as lasers go you have to enclose the laser
> so the person using it will not instantly blast an
> eye out and go blind. Use goggles, like you are
> supposed to use with any power tools, made for
> laser protection. You don't use them then they
> are considered an idiot. No need for splash
> around when you have 400mw lasers in blu-ray
> burners now. 1 watt can be eclosed for safety
> after it has been tweaked but don't forget your
> glasses.

Never the less, the worst that can happen with FDM is a burn. The worst that can happen with laser-based technology is much worse. That has to be a consideration in any self-replicating system. Please bear in mind that self-replicating systems are not what we think of today as consumer products. Consumers demand to be protected from hazardous things. Self-replication requires using hazardous things.

Why do you think that we use 12V heaters instead of 110V or 220V? It's not because 12V is better. It's because there would be much higher chances for injuries if people used 220V power for their hot-ends or heated beds.

Annirak Wrote:
> Why do you think that we use 12V heaters instead
> of 110V or 220V? It's not because 12V is better.
> It's because there would be much higher chances
> for injuries if people used 220V power for their
> hot-ends or heated beds.
Yep, I agree as the days when people actually had a brain and self restraint are long gone. No longer would a TV from 1950's even be allowed in today's time.

See, this is where I am not in agreement with you because a laser is a dangerous item, no doubt about that, but with a laser in a blu-ray now being 400mw I don't see a 1 watt laser will be much different.

What you would do is make it so if the door is opened for whatever reason (jams, etc...) the laser can not be activated without circumventing and that legally lets you off the hook. Yes, you would still go to court but once shown a device cannot be operated with the door open case is closed.

So, with that protection scheme we could prevent them from going blind and allow it to be in the chamber and melting the fine filament. It is no different than what we have now where you insert a disc and burn it only the hole is micro miniature and is a plastic filament strand instead of a plastic disc.

edit: "My point is that you can do design work even if you can't build the design. " - How? Without a physical object to test with everything you would do would be theoretical and I have never been into theory in the design stage. Before hand it is fine to set some ground rules and what you are going to test but I know, at least for me, I need a real object when I am testing what works and what doesn't and that demands a printer.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2013 04:50AM by Dark Alchemist.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

... it's a matter of experience and common sense, what's defining the 'level of hazard' you can handle without problem or serious damages.

I'm using all sorts of dangerous devices (heated bed with 230V, steppers with 325V, PS with up to 14kV, high energy lasers, deadly/dangerous chemicals, a car, ...) - with some basic precautions or 'shields' it's easy enough to manage without losses or casualties

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

VDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... it's a matter of experience and common sense,
> what's defining the 'level of hazard' you can
> handle without problem or serious damages.
>
> I'm using all sorts of dangerous devices (heated
> bed with 230V, steppers with 325V, PS with up to
> 14kV, high energy lasers, deadly/dangerous
> chemicals, a car, ...) - with some basic
> precautions or 'shields' it's easy enough to
> manage without losses or casualties
Agreed but he was talking about the end consumers which need to be protected from themselves and in the USA we have been allowed to become a very dumb litigious society.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

... so you'll state, that our society is dividing in two separate 'species' - 'tinkerers' <-> 'morons'

Add the parameters 'wealthy' and 'poor' to this and you'll get some more cross-overs, that could maybe explain some of the difficulties/problems with our actual social, economic and political situation

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

There are some rich morons out there who have killed themselves doing some of the dumbest things and there have been just as bad with the poor so it isn't an economic thing at all. It is almost as if mankind is devolving or something.

It could be we are just as stupid as we ever were but now people sue for some of the dumbest crap you can imagine and WIN. Stuff that would be able to get them a Darwin award yet the courts let them win.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Quote
Dark Alchemist
It is almost as if mankind is devolving or something.

That is why the Darwin Awards were created.

---

Bob Morrison
Wörth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse

... maybe this is a normal development for overpopulated environments

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Yes the problem is there is no longer any natural selection because society does everything it can to stop idiots killing themselves to the detriment of the rest. Odd because there is no shortage of people, in fact quite the opposite, so why does every thing have to get safer / less risky and more and more value placed on a human life?

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

... so let's go "Darwin" ><

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

nophead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes the problem is there is no longer any natural
> selection because society does everything it can
> to stop idiots killing themselves to the detriment
> of the rest. Odd because there is no shortage of
> people, in fact quite the opposite, so why does
> every thing have to get safer / less risky and
> more and more value placed on a human life?

See, I don't see a value being put on our lives as much anymore. Heck, I honestly just read a piece by Jeff Greensfield that actually said that all of the changes in America that is coming will be a good thing since it will kill off the elderly who would devour our social security. That guy is a huge liberal and when he says that I can imagine what Washington, D.C. must say behind our backs.

The courts are another story because they are worse than D.C. is and to make matters worse the lawyers (I hate the scum) will tell you to demand a trial with a jury because the jury will be just as retarded as you are and give you lots of money.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.