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RP parts

Posted by Anonymous User 
Anonymous User
RP parts
May 10, 2007 07:49PM
Hi guy's I'm really interested in this and will probably start Building the pcb boards next week, however how do you get the rp parts, I have found most of the other parts of the BOM sheet from teh two websites rswww.com and uk.farnell.com.

do the RP parts have to be made by a running machine?
If so does anyone in the uk (or post from overseas) have a running machine willing to make the parts (I'm willing to pay).

Thanks for any help.
Re: RP parts
May 10, 2007 10:57PM
welcome to the chicken and the egg problem. currently you could either attempt to fabricate your own out of wood (others have done this... check the forums) you could ask Adrian nicely if he'd print you some on the Stratasys (a donation to cover costs would help) or you could try to find someone with a Stratasys (university?) that would print them for the cost of raw materials.

once we get machines up and capable of printing the parts... it will be much easier to get them =)
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 11, 2007 12:25AM
Just for the heck of it, I looked at an online price quote for a few of the STL files, and the quote seemed to be closely correlated to the volume of the parts...

So of course my next step was to calculate the volume of all of the parts, rounding off to the nearest 1000 cubic millimeters or so. smiling smiley

I came up with roughly 1,150,000 cubic millimeters of material, and based on the quote I got, that comes out to about $2300.00 US for all of the parts (cartesian robot and extruder).

That's a bit out of my price range, but I'm posting this so that those who are shopping around can at least have an idea of the total volume of raw material required, and those with larger budgets than mine to work with can estimate whether or not it would be worth it for them to have a rapid prototyping shop build the parts.



-Disclaimer-
The price I list above is a rough estimate based on quotes I got for a few parts at one place. The actual price may vary significantly from what I have calculated. Also please note that the volume calculation is based on the actual volume of material, not the outer dimensions of the parts.
-End Disclaimer-
Re: RP parts
May 11, 2007 08:42AM
You're talking about 1,150 cubic centimetres or about 70 cubic inches there. The price I keep running into for rapid prototyping in ABS with a Stratasys machine is roughly $30/cubic inch, so you're talking about roughly US$2,100 there. The prototyping firm owners that I know tell be that Stratasys is selling them ABS filament for their machines at about $4.50/cubic inch which would say that the materials alone are going to cost them $315.

It might make sense to have a commercial firm RP the polymer pump, but little else. You can cut the parts of a polymer pump out of wood or polypropylene for a fraction of what it will cost you to have a commercial firm make them up, however.
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 11, 2007 02:43PM
That sounds like the easiest and best way, are we talking about Adrian Bowyer?

any idea what the cost would be?

I've also seen Zach Hoeken say he will produce the parts when his machine is up and running, any news on that?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2007 03:14PM by AcidHell2.
Re: RP parts
May 11, 2007 03:17PM
"I've also seen Zach Hoeken say he will produce the parts when his machine is up and running, any news on that?"

I'll be doing the same thing for Tommelise parts when I've got the printing and control panel developed to a point where I can do them without having to watch the system every minute. I figure another month or so at the rate that it's going now.

Maybe sooner.
Re: RP parts
May 11, 2007 04:14PM
yup, Adrian Bowyer. its worth a shot to ask him. i dont know how many sets he can print off though. i know that in interest of fairness, he'll want to give the first sets to the core developers. i cant really speak for him though.

as for me printing off parts... its definitely something i'd like to be doing ASAP. for info on the progress check out [builders.reprap.org]
Re: RP parts
May 12, 2007 07:09PM
Yeah, I think a lot of us are in the same boat here. I was planning to get my University to fab me some parts but its transpired that thats not possible.
I think my next plan is to hack up a hot glue gun based extruder, or possibly to drop about 1-2K on a CNC Mill via the wonders of ebay, which would be able to mill the bits we need (and probably quickly enough that it'd be feasible to send out a reasonable amount of them, too). One other idea I thought of was hax0ring the extruder until its possible to make it from sheets of perspex (as [email protected] do), since then they can be cut professionally pretty cheaply or just at home.
Yet another idea is for me to get off my fat ass and finish off the homemade mill I've got half finished, the X and Y axis of which will probably become a reprap afterwards.

Theres some ideas for y'all. I'll probably either buy a mill (money/ego permitting), build up a mill, or build up a hot-glue based extruder. When I've got something up I'll post on the developers blog.. but theres not much to see ATM.
Re: RP parts
May 12, 2007 07:45PM
I too will be willing to make parts for people, when / if I get my machine working. I don't think I am far (a week or two) away from being able to mill an extruder body, probably a month or two from being able to do FDM.


[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
Re: RP parts
May 12, 2007 07:51PM
Ace, nophead, I won't be able to for some weeks yet, so perhaps my best bet is to wait until parts are availible instead of hacking around.

You know, when I think about this, we really need some 'que' thread so people can wait for parts in an orderly fashion..
Re: RP parts
May 12, 2007 08:20PM
So far there is a a handfull of people willing to make parts as soon as they are able and about two handfulls of people requiring them. That means each person only needs to make two or three sets of parts to meet the exponential growth.

It reminds me of when I was a kid and somebody gave me a ginger beer plant. After a week of feeding it ginger and sugar you made beer and divided it into two to start the cycle again. After a few weeks every spare container in the house was fermenting ginger beer, and also the same in every friends house. It got so that you could give the stuff away. Presambly this will go the same way.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2007 03:53AM by nophead.


[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 05:34AM
yep I think I'll wait till people have one up and running. I dont have the space to start hacking up so many parts, especially the round parts. I'll still crack on with the electronics and order the motors and stuff.

Computers throwing a wobbly at the moment and wont let me install linux. However is there a page that explains the programming that actually drives the machine. What is it programmed in?
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 11:48AM
the control software is written in Java and should work on windows. that part of the systems definitely still needs some work, so if you're interested we could use some help.
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 12:17PM
Well, I've never used java before and until I look at the code then I'm not sure how much I'll be able to help. But I will deff have a look at it, see what I can do.

I'm more vb /asp.net.
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 12:26PM
I've used linux a lot before so I think it will be easier, especially as kicad doesn't appear to have a windows version unless I'm missing something.

It's just the grub (boot loader) isn't installing to the right place, as I've had various xp/vista installations over the last year.
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 12:42PM
I think there is a windows version of kiCad but its for-money. I could be wrong, I just recall someone saying that.
I think my skills would be better used coding than making robots, so I might have a bash at some of the code. I'm a fairly experienced coder but haven't done anything 'serious' in Java yet, but 'java' is on my to-do list so this seems like a good project to pick some up with grinning smiley
I can't do it for a couple weeks though, since I've got RL coming at me from both sides..
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 02:14PM
There is a free Windows version of Kicad. I have it running here.
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 02:55PM
What kind of help do you need on the windows side?
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 02:55PM
Thanks bartlee45

can some one explain how I download the files and open them in Kicad.

edit never mind I figured it out whast the .ps files for though?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2007 02:59PM by AcidHell2.
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 03:20PM
well, the host software in general could use some UI help. also, the software still needs to be tested a bit more. we need a build process and installer setup (currently, you have to run it through Eclipse...) also, it would be nice to convert it to jogl, instead of java3d (basically copy the way Art of Illusion is doing things.)
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 03:21PM
kicad is open source and runs on both windows and linux. theres an older mac version out there, (although it runs great under parallels... thats how i did most of the board work!)
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 03:24PM
the .ps files are postscript files for printing. i've done a bunch of work in kicad to get the boards ready for production, so i'm pretty familiar with it. it can be a bit overwhelming at first, but it is quite powerful. if you have any questions, let me know. also, you might want to check out our kicad page for helpful hints.

[reprap.org]
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 03:32PM
Thanks zach. Im trying to get the rerap software working now, I've gone through and installed everything. However when I try to run the main.java file i get these errors.
Quote

java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: javax/vecmath/Tuple3d (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass0(Native Method)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(Unknown Source)
at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClassInternal(Unknown Source)
at org.reprap.Main.createAndShowGUI(Main.java:313)
at org.reprap.Main.access$24(Main.java:77)
at org.reprap.Main$23.run(Main.java:574)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)


Any idea whats causing this?

is this because I cant install subclipse version 1.2 as it needs some other update first.
mylar 0.9.2 any idea how to get this?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2007 03:34PM by AcidHell2.
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 04:05PM
Make sure what version of Java you are using and the supporting directories where the javax stuff is supposed to go. If you have more than one version of Java, your files could be in the right place for that version, but not the version you are using. I think java -version will tell you the version of java being used.
So where it says appropriate, the example shows "appropriate for version j2re1.4.2_13". You have to find whatever comes back from your version inquiry.
If I'm telling you stuff you already know, maybe it will help someone else looking for help with similar problems smiling smiley

This is from the instructions at [reprap.org]

We only need four of them:

commapi/jar/comm.jar
commapi/lib/libLinuxSerialParallel.so
commapi/lib/libLinuxSerialParallel_g.so
commapi/docs/javax.comm.properties

Copy them to the appropriate places in your Java run-time environment:

# cp commapi/jar/comm.jar j2re1.4.2_13/lib/ext/
# cp commapi/lib/* j2re1.4.2_13/lib/i386/
# cp commapi/docs/javax.comm.properties j2re1.4.2_13/lib/
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 05:32PM
I'm using windows, do I need to copy files like that across in the windows version?
Anonymous User
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 07:06PM
I'm having trouble with this as well, but I am on Ubuntu and getting this:

Quote

Java 3D [dev] 1.4.0-build5-experimental 24 Jun 2005 10:18:22 PDT

Exception during event dispatch:
java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: libj3dcore-ogl: libj3dcore-ogl.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
at java.lang.Runtime._load(libgcj.so.70)
at java.lang.Runtime.loadLibrary(libgcj.so.70)
at java.lang.System.loadLibrary(libgcj.so.70)
at javax.media.j3d.MasterControl$6.run(Unknown Source)
at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(libgcj.so.70)
at javax.media.j3d.MasterControl.loadLibraries(Unknown Source)
at javax.media.j3d.VirtualUniverse.(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Class.initializeClass(libgcj.so.70)
at org.reprap.gui.Panel3D.createVirtualUniverse(Panel3D.java:321)
at org.reprap.gui.Panel3D.initJava3d(Panel3D.java:262)
at org.reprap.gui.Panel3D.initialise(Panel3D.java:153)
at org.reprap.gui.RepRapBuild.(RepRapBuild.java:125)
at org.reprap.Main.createAndShowGUI(Main.java:313)
at org.reprap.Main.access$24(Main.java:77)
at org.reprap.Main$23.run(Main.java:574)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(libgcj.so.70)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(libgcj.so.70)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(libgcj.so.70)
Ideas?
Re: RP parts
May 13, 2007 10:15PM
yup... this is why we need a java expert on the team. i'm making a post on the main blog and am going to try and get the word out on digg.
Re: RP parts
May 14, 2007 02:54AM
Hey,

When using windows, you might want to try to install only one Java version/SDK. Also install the additional packages needed (Java 3D), and then it should work. The mentioned copy command is for *nix flavours - in windows you could use drag 'n drop, but the installer should actually take care of most, I think.

I have installed the 1.5.0_07 SDK and the 1.5.0 Java 3D (both can be downloaded from the main SUN java site). With Eclipse (Eclipse SDK 3.2.2) I can compile and run the software. Eclipse also has the benefit of an SVN plugin (Subclipse 1.2.0) which means you can manage the SW environment from Eclipse.

If needed, I can put together a Windows HOWTO to get this up and running...

CrashMaxx: the error you get is probably due to the Open GL library needed. On Ubuntu you need the (latest) drivers for you graphics card. If you use an ATI or Nvidia card, get the latest drivers (binaries from Nvidia/ATI) and reconfigure you xorg.conf to use this driver (i.e. not the open source "nv" one but the "nvidia" for an Nvidia card - not sure about ATI). I think there also is a setting that you need to add so the opengl part is activated; somewhere in the section module, the line "load glx". Hopes this helps ... ?

Joost

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2007 03:00AM by Joost van de Wiel.
Re: RP parts
May 16, 2007 02:30AM
Oh yeah, for windows.. I forgot to add to this. The only advice in addition to what Joost said is that you may need the javax.com.properties file. It looks like (excluding all the comments)

Driver=com.sun.comm.Win32Driver

and mine is located in
C:\Program Files\Java\j2re1.4.2_13\lib
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