[Would love your feedback] Presspin: peer-to-peer 3D printing

Hi all,

I'm launching a 3D printing marketplace called Presspin and would love to receive feedback from the RepRap community.

I don't need to convince the RepRap crowd of the benefits of 3D printing, so I'll skip that part. However, it is worth noting that I completely disagree with the scenario portrayed in the media these days of everybody soon owning a magical machine that can create anything they think of by the click of a button.

The thinking that has brought me to work on Presspin is the following:

• I don't believe in the general purpose 3D printer. There are many interesting initiatives around that are printing on a nanoscale, printing food, printing metal, printing full-scale houses, bio-printing, etc. Combining all of these printers into one home appliance obviously won't work. I'm not saying that printers won't get better - they definitely will - but they will be specialised.
• The skills needed for creating and designing are not the same as the skills needed for making and building. The idea going around is that owning a 3D printer will unleash creativity. But being a great designer has nothing to do with being a great Maker. As far as I know, people don't remember Guttenberg for his writings.
• Access to 3D printers is more important than the ownership of a 3D printer. If I want my ideas to come to life, there needs to be a solution, but why buy and operate a printer?

The solution proposed by Presspin is a demand-driven p2p community marketplace which works in the following way:

1. A buyer creates an order for a 3D printed object.
2. Makers bid on the order.
3. The buyer picks a Maker.
4. The winning Maker prints the object and delivers it.
5. The buyer transfers the payment to the Maker.

You could call it a p2p version of Shapeways, allowing people with underutilised assets (their 3D printers) to connect with people who need access to these assets and getting paid for it.

The site is available at [pressp.in] (screenshot attached: ).

I'm currently running a certain number of test orders for standard 3D printed parts. The site is currently in closed beta, but if you want to get access to a Maker account to test the site or bid on these orders, please get in touch (reply to this topic, PM, or you can reach me at romain@pressp.in, whatever is easiest).

I would love to learn what you think of my logic, the concept, the site, etc.

All the best,
Romain

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

There would be a vast gap between individual print quality, general public expectation, delivered piece. I doubt the person that printed a part wants to pay for shipping, in hopes that it is what the buyer wants or expects, and then may or may not be payed for it.

Then throw in a customer need for dimensional accuracy.......

Question: Do you yourself own a 3D printer?

Who would be responsible for mesh/model integrity?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2013 06:46PM by Dirty Steve.

Thanks for the rapid feedback.

Makers can build portfolios of their prints and build their reputation through ratings and reviews, so the buyer isn't blind and is able to pick Makers based on print quality.

The gap between quality expectations and capability of home printers would be solved in 2 ways:
1- Communicating clearly about what to expect (I'm simplifying it: "coat hanger: good; customised wedding ring: not good").
2- Filling the gap by connecting with professional 3D print shops ("no RepRap can print your customised wedding ring, but this professional shop can").

Regarding shipping, the idea is to have local production so has to minimise delivery/postage costs as well as reduce time of reception. Also, shipping doesn't seem to be a problem on ebay, so as long as the economics work, I reckon it could be solved. I'm thinking of introducing escrow accounts where the buyer deposits the money once a Maker is picked and releases the funds once the object is received: would that solve the payment issue?

To answer your question: I'm building a Prusa i2 at the moment. FYI, I'm ordering the printed parts through Presspin if you wish to bid... http://pressp.in/index.php/job/view/26

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

I think people cant see enough before doing things, i mean they should be able to look at portfolios and such before subscribing or anything. I dont see how to get there.(edit: mean from the front page)

Preferably users can also see examples how steps 1-5 for buyers.

If users could pass a link to printable objects, that might be more convenient. But implementing that is a bunch of work, depending if 'printable part' websites co-operate. Besides it needs to be very clear what the object is. Perhaps you could also put out a checksum, so that makers can write scripts that looks for identical objects, and use injection molding machines if there enough identical ones.

Note that there are more 3d model databases, for instance physibleexchange, physibles on pirate bay i worry that it may be a 'strategic position', because of habits and the network effect. However, you need buyers and buyers need to find models, and the most models are on the biggest model site. And you cant overcomplicate things for the buyers. I would personally have a page somewhere mentioning this and listing some options.(and try sneak a link to this next to the mention of thingiverse)

Edit: btw, i do think ownership of printers is important. But i agree there will probably be multiple specialized versions. But having them owned distributedly is nice too. Also geographic location matters? I suppose those can be part of a order.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 10:40AM by Jasper1984.

It is a great idea. Just because the forum doesn't agree or isn't your target audience doesn't make it otherwise. Portfolios and ratings encourage competition for quality, and many good things intrinsically come from that drive.

Perhaps include an optional prototyping fee that doubles as a guarantee?

I'm all for any new object repositories.

And if Presspin offers a similar service, like a service directory, than I'm ok with that. Perhaps I'll even sign up.

Thanks for the links to a few more. I think it would be wise to form a wiki page for object repositories and other places to find objects, and of course include presspin on the list. (I've got enough going on to add another to-do to my list, any takers?)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2013 11:03AM by xclusive585.

I think the idea sounds pretty cool, and I'll likely join once I get a few things sorted out.

Thanks for the feedback Jasper.

Jasper1984 Wrote:
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> I think people cant see enough before doing
> things, i mean they should be able to look at
> portfolios and such before subscribing or
> anything. I dont see how to get there.(edit: mean
> from the front page)

The platform just launched and is in closed beta, so the amount of info accessible from the homepage is limited at the moment. However, Makers can currently attach a portfolio to their profile to display their skills. I have listed your comment in the tasks for when we open up the beta.

> Preferably users can also see examples how steps
> 1-5 for buyers.
>
> If users could pass a link to printable objects,
> that might be more convenient. But implementing
> that is a bunch of work, depending if 'printable
> part' websites co-operate. Besides it needs to be
> very clear what the object is. Perhaps you could
> also put out a checksum, so that makers can write
> scripts that looks for identical objects, and use
> injection molding machines if there enough
> identical ones.

That's the logical next step; vertical integration upstream along the 3D printing value chain. For now, the quick and easy solution (as you noted, it requires a bunch of work) was to simply display a link to Thingiverse on the homepage. Presspin's unique added value is in connecting Makers to people who need access to 3D printers.

> Edit: btw, i do think ownership of printers is
> important. But i agree there will probably be
> multiple specialized versions. But having them
> owned distributedly is nice too. Also geographic
> location matters? I suppose those can be part of a
> order.

Geography matters, but in my opinion, not as a key buying decision. Most people want the best product/service at the best price, wherever it comes from (there wouldn't be so much stuff made in China if it wasn't the case). I don't necessarily agree that it is a buying decision. However, what I expect is that at scale, transport costs will be a huge differentiator and people will de facto end up choosing a Maker not too far from the delivery point, simply for cost reasons (and the fact that transport time is shorter).

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

jason.fisher Wrote:
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> It is a great idea. Just because the forum
> doesn't agree or isn't your target audience
> doesn't make it otherwise. Portfolios and ratings
> encourage competition for quality, and many good
> things intrinsically come from that drive.

Thanks Jason!
I'm all ears for the feedback from the RepRap crowd and it's been very relevant so far.
If you want to join, just drop your email on the website and send me a PM so that I can send you an activation link.

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

jason.fisher Wrote:
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> Perhaps include an optional prototyping fee that
> doubles as a guarantee?

Very clever idea.
How would you see it working from the buyer?

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

xclusive585 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm all for any new object repositories.
>
> And if Presspin offers a similar service, like a
> service directory, than I'm ok with that. Perhaps
> I'll even sign up.
>
> Thanks for the links to a few more. I think it
> would be wise to form a wiki page for object
> repositories and other places to find objects, and
> of course include presspin on the list. (I've got
> enough going on to add another to-do to my list,
> any takers?)

Cool idea. Do you have a particular format in mind?
I might be able to find the time to set it up and it would totally make sense to have this resource.

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

jibberjive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the idea sounds pretty cool, and I'll
> likely join once I get a few things sorted out.

Cool, send me a PM whenever you want to join.

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

The idea sounds very similar to freelancer.com - And that works very well! Quality is always a risk but with buyer feedback and prices usually way cheaper than market average, it's worth the perceived risk. And most of the time, you get great results.

If I had the technical knowledge to implement this, I would have done it already! Good idea Romain, I'll be joining.

RT

3ddude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The idea sounds very similar to freelancer.com -
> And that works very well! Quality is always a risk
> but with buyer feedback and prices usually way
> cheaper than market average, it's worth the
> perceived risk. And most of the time, you get
> great results.
>
> If I had the technical knowledge to implement
> this, I would have done it already! Good idea
> Romain, I'll be joining.
>
> RT

Cheers 3ddude!
Send me a PM with your email address when you want to join.

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

I was thinking Freelancer.com as well. Making 3D prints is an easy place to start, and other services are doing that as well. If it is more about making stuff in general, it could be cool. In addition to offering their printers, providers might offer model cleaning and prep services, or consulting for people who haven't learned yet how to model for printing. It would be good to offer that as a separate service up front, and maybe have some kind of model check that happens before bidding so a printer operator doesn't get surprised by an STL that will need a lot of work.

Even though I have my own printer, I could still use a service like this. I might need help with a bit of Arduino code and circuit design, or maybe I have a tangled up breadboard that needs to be turned into a nice PCB. I have a project that is working alright, but could be improved with a simple piece of milled aluminum.

It will seem more unique if from the start you make it more about connecting people with those who have the skills and tools you need to finish your projects and not let it look like just another cloud printing service.

At first glance the website raises a lot of obvious doubts about the success, but still, I think you should launch it and see how popular it gets. FL is not worry free either, both as a buyer and a seller, but it works.

I will join if you make it so I can tour through and see other people who are participating. I don't see any actual content on the site at all atm.

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repraplogphase.blogspot.com

romain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Cheers 3ddude!
> Send me a PM with your email address when you want
> to join.

I've signed up on the site so presumably my email address is on your list now?

RT

IanJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking Freelancer.com as well. Making 3D
> prints is an easy place to start, and other
> services are doing that as well. If it is more
> about making stuff in general, it could be cool.
> In addition to offering their printers, providers
> might offer model cleaning and prep services, or
> consulting for people who haven't learned yet how
> to model for printing. It would be good to offer
> that as a separate service up front, and maybe
> have some kind of model check that happens before
> bidding so a printer operator doesn't get
> surprised by an STL that will need a lot of work.
>
> Even though I have my own printer, I could still
> use a service like this. I might need help with a
> bit of Arduino code and circuit design, or maybe I
> have a tangled up breadboard that needs to be
> turned into a nice PCB. I have a project that is
> working alright, but could be improved with a
> simple piece of milled aluminum.
>
> It will seem more unique if from the start you
> make it more about connecting people with those
> who have the skills and tools you need to finish
> your projects and not let it look like just
> another cloud printing service.

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the feedback. The idea is to keep the message simple to start with. 3D printing is probably complicated enough to explain to buyers without the need to grow the service offering, but I'll keep it in mind if buyers come up with that demand.

By the way, I have started using GetSatisfaction for collecting feedback if that's a better place to bounce off ideas.

Romain

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]

I'm looking for a tech cofounder to join Presspin. There's an ad on the site, so get in touch if you are interested!

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Make money with your 3D printer on Presspin - [pressp.in]