Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) [Lots of pictures]

Hi,

@anixie (and others, too, of course): thing:221997 it is. Printable adapter for using the E3D v5 in combination with the K8200 / 3Drag extruder.

Cheers
kuraasu

What's the link with the sailfish?

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3D Printing Blog: [www.absplastic.eu] - The Future, The Possibilities

Ordered Sunday, shipped Monday and in my hands wednesday..... And all that for an international order. Very impressed indeed. Only thing is the fan holder is a bit flimsy, so I will print a new one..

Now still waiting for my stock replacemlent hot end to show up so I can first print the mount for the E3D and then swap to E3D
Still need to add a bigger PSU to power it though, since I am also swapping the heatbed for a V2 version with only 1.5 ohm resistance.
That triples the power need for the heatbed...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 02:38PM by anixie.

@Kuraasu,

Thanks a lot for the thing.
Much appreciated.

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ddseeker

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SanjayM

We are also looking at a super compact mini water cooled hotend, for just one nozzle. Might name it after some fast sea fish/animal. Marlin is already taken though, suggestions welcomed!

Not sure if anyone gave any suggestions (I just scrolled back to see the side view image of the Kraken and noticed this)

W3D

Wahoo is the 3rd fastest fish in the world
(max. recorded speed of 78 kph)

Acanthocybium_solandri.png

this can also be a play off of Water Cooled E3D

maybe Wahoo sounds to silly and to close to yahoo, but it does give an aquatic breed theme to W3D

Note: Fastest fish is the Sailfish and 2nd fastest is the Marlin and those can't be used due to the firmwares, the link to 3 is cool too.

Haha, the first thing that came to my mind was Sailfish, I would REALLY try to not use Wahoo because the name has too much of an unwanted co-notation.



Awwwwwwwwhhh no, I was about to order the E3D hotend because I had enough savings and now they are suddenly 10 pounds more expensive! Argh, so now I can't buy it haha. So much fun...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 04:07PM by Ohmarinus.

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Ohmarinus

I would REALLY try to not use Wahoo because the name has too much of an unwanted co-notation.

I was thinking the same thing, can you imagine the instructions, "Now shove the filament up the Wahoo"

Hey all, you might like my blog post on initial results with a prototype of the E3D Kraken hotend.

kraken first look

Its been great to setup and is by far the most compact and easy to reliably level multi extruder option I have tried.

So far the water cooling has been no issue at all but I do need to continue to monitor wear on the tubes.

Tony

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[blog.think3dprint3d.com]

T3P3,

Great write up, info and pics!

Thank you

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T3P3
I prefer to use axial leaded thermistors (like these) as they are more robust

What makes the axial lead thermistor more robust?



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When I purchase monitoring gauges for lab or production equipment,
I try to locate the desired processing value near the middle of the gauge range.
I think (I don't know) that the thermistor max temp is too close to ABS processing temp.
Is there an axial lead thermistor that can work +300°C, or is the thermistor robust operating at it's upper limit?

Thermistor temperature range: -40°C∼+250°C.
[uk.rs-online.com]

Machine parameters:
ABS Extrude temp (RepRap): 210 C ~ 240 C

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I noticed that your water lines were missing a hose clamp, or zip tie.
Plastic creeps, and with X axis movement there is going to be some tugging on the hoses.
Keep an eye on the hose connections.



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Is there a strain relief tube inside the water line hose?

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Nice write up!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 07:41PM by A2.

Hey A2

In an ideal world I would use higher rated thermistors but those ones are inexpensive and have worked well on the RepRapPro hotends I was using previously on the dual extruder setup. I should have been clearer in that the axial thermistors tend to be more mechanically robust the leads are much thicker and as they pass through the whole block the bending points are far from the glass case. This setup won't work for PC or other things needing much above 250C so for that I will probably go for thermocouples

I will definitely be keeping an eye on those hoses. So far nothing untoward seen!

Thanks!

Tony

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[blog.think3dprint3d.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2014 07:53PM by T3P3.

Jam and blow out on my E3D hotend.
My E3D had a problem not extruding.
found nozzle loose and PLA coming out at the top
of the aluminum block.
I don't see how PLA could come out in the area
between Heating block and cooler --- but it did.
I disassembled the whole hotend and cleaned it off
by heating it up and removing all the gunked up PLA.
put it back together and am up and running again
I will be watching for another blow out.
The threads in the aluminum block and steel m6 piece
are critical and mine may be not so good.

I'll keep you posted on it's operation

Wow, I can't imagine how it could get that hot. Mine is barly warm at the bottom fin. I had a jam during an overnight print and didn't notice until I checked on it the next morning. The drive gear stripped the filament trying to push it but nothing was blocked up near the heat sink. Maybe the fan stopped.

Same here. Major blockage. however in my case this just resulted in a lot of frustration. i have it all soaking in acetone, hoping. this was with LAYWOO-D3 printing at about 200C. 0.6mm nozzle. the clog is in the nozzle and caused filament to then sit in the heat break and melt. trying to push more filament through just caused a melted filament traffic jam. no choice but to complete remove the hot end, disassemle and try and clean it out. i got the heat break cleaned out using 3mm CF rod and tried again, but still a jam. so it must be the nozzel. LAYWOO-D3 like PLA is not really soluable in acetone, but its all I can do at this point since I don't have any replacement nozzles.

If this doesn't work I will take the torch to the nozzle and try and burn everything out. unless someone else has a better idea.

i am willing to forgive this, this time around, but with my previous hot end I rarely had jams like this with LAYWOO-D3. so we shall see. I will report more after everything has had time to soak. This, however, brings the printer to a down state. Good thing I don't have any orders in the queue.

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A torch and .3mm wire cleaned the PLA out of my nozzle. Doesn't seem to be any negative affects by using the torch.

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new to3Dbob
Wow, I can't imagine how it could get that hot. Mine is barly warm at the bottom fin. I had a jam during an overnight print and didn't notice until I checked on it the next morning. The drive gear stripped the filament trying to push it but nothing was blocked up near the heat sink. Maybe the fan stopped.

One annoying aspect of the E3D is that the nozzle and the heat break meet in the middle of the heat block. you have to wrench in the nozzle first and then the heat break and twist the two so they provide equal but opposite force to keep everything together. one advantage of this is that the heat break ID matches up with the ID of the nozzle so its just one long channel for the filament. the downside is that if either gets loose, the whole thing basically comes apart or loosens up. this can then result in material oozing around the threads of either the nozzle or heat break.

I get the design "feature" but its not a very good way to do it because the failure mode is easy to happen. it would have been better to have the nozzle and heat break separated by a filament diameter hole in the heat block. this way both can be torqued in to the heat block without depeneding on the other. this however would require special heat blocks to be made for each filament diameter. However I feel that this would have been a better design, more robust, and easier to maintain. right now, its very challenging to try and swap out nozzles while still maintaining the pressure with the heat break as needed.

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When I changed nozzles I removed the heat break and basically reassembled the whole nozzle for that reason. Not really much more work still only took a minute but without removing both you are right you don't know if the heat break moved.

ok heating the nozzle up helped to clean it out and I am back to printing. one thing to watch when doing this is that the nozzles are brass so when you heat they soften. careful with holding them with pliers because they can easily distort. better to use tweezers holding onto the shell from the threaded side.

I'd love the heat block to be structured like I mentioned, with a separarate threaded hole for the nozzle and the heat break so they can independently be tightened in. also a retainer nut on the heat break or make it so that you can tighten the heat sink down tight. this way the heat sink, break and block are secured as one unit and so enabling easier removal of the nozzle without having to worry about the whole thing coming apart.

otherwise good hot end! when it prints it prints well.

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If you have a separate mating surface in the heat block for the heat break then you have to torque it to make a seal, which will lead to people over torquing it and destroying the thin wall heatbreak. By mating the nozzle and the heatbreak inside the block you get all the sealing forces by torquing the nozzle against the heat block, both of which are much sturdier.

To all, Sanjay,

I am using an 3D for about a week now. Nice hot end until now (but never printed anything big until now).

However, I found a very strange behavior regarding extrusion. My nozzle (default) is said to be 0.4mm. If I extrude cheap PLA at its recommended temperature, the extruded plastic is about 0.48 of diameter.
But worse, if I use a more qualitative PLA (form ColorFabb), then the extrusion varies from 0.55 to 0.70 depending on the temperature and the speed of the extrusion (never 0.40).
How the hell can you obtain and configure your slicer correctly when you have such variations?

(E3D with direct 3mm Wade's extruder)

Thus my question: do you see the same behavior with your nozzle ???
Got a JHead and the extrusion was always very close to 0.35 (0.35-0.37)

Cheers

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2014 02:16PM by regisw.

Installed and first print made.
Works like a charm.

The old head (stock K8200) did not like ABS at all. The E3D seems to love the stuff. Had small issues in the beginning, purely due to software settings (eg Slicer was still set for a 05 mm nozzle...)
Then the small drive cog on the extruder decided to start slipping on its engine axle. Know issue of that printer. New hole drilled and tapped. Up and running again (I think... My youngest brother is doing all the work..)

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extent
If you have a separate mating surface in the heat block for the heat break then you have to torque it to make a seal, which will lead to people over torquing it and destroying the thin wall heatbreak. By mating the nozzle and the heatbreak inside the block you get all the sealing forces by torquing the nozzle against the heat block, both of which are much sturdier.

Either way you have to torque it together. using the current design, the filament entry of the nozzle butts up against the heat break tube. the nozzle is made of brass and the heat break is stainless. if you over torque then you risk deforming the brass nozzle. if the design of the heat block separated the nozzle from the break as I mentioned, then both components would not depend on the other for a good seal, it would also make nozzle changes much easier. I am still not seeing any benefits to th current design over my suggestion but then again what do I know..? I'm probably missing something, so perhaps a hot end designer can pipe in and let us know why the E3D design is superior.

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plexus

Either way you have to torque it together. using the current design, the filament entry of the nozzle butts up against the heat break tube. the nozzle is made of brass and the heat break is stainless. if you over torque then you risk deforming the brass nozzle. if the design of the heat block separated the nozzle from the break as I mentioned, then both components would not depend on the other for a good seal, it would also make nozzle changes much easier. I am still not seeing any benefits to th current design over my suggestion but then again what do I know..? I'm probably missing something, so perhaps a hot end designer can pipe in and let us know why the E3D design is superior.

You are definitely right about your suggestion making nozzle changes easier. But remember that the heat blocks need to be machined and the added complexity of your suggestions would greatly increase the cost of manufacturing as the heat block would have to be drilled and tapped from both sides.

I think that this design feature of having the nozzle and heat break meet in the heat block is the only significant flaw in the E3D design. The E3D makes great prints, but I have had a few jams caused by plastic getting caught in the junction, burning, and later clogging the nozzle, even when I properly torqued the nozzle into the heat break at 300C. In addition, nozzle changes are obviously a PITA. I actually ended up breaking a nozzle once by over-torquing as the brass gets softer at 300C.

I am currently testing a design for a 1 piece SS all metal hot end nozzle that has no junctions in the melt-zone and so far I have printed for hundreds of hours on several Prusa I2s and never had a jam in any type of plastic I think 1 piece nozzles are the way to go as they eliminate the all problems of over-torquing and nozzle clogging.

Eric

I received mine, must wait february to test it but it seems to be really weel engineered !
The only con is the fan holder which is really badly printed, it contrasts a lot with metal parts...


Oh, and thanks for the candies !

Guys, I've got my first clogged nozzle.

It is the 0.25mm version.. I could not push the filament through the hotend by hand.
I replaced the nozzle by the original one (0.4mm) and it worked like a charm.

So I drilled the clogged nozzle with a 2mm drill to remove all the plastic.. but I guess the small 0.25mm is clogged because even doing that, I cannot push filament...

Do you guys know any way to clean it??

Thanks.

Alex.

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AlexBorro
Guys, I've got my first clogged nozzle.

It is the 0.25mm version.. I could not push the filament through the hotend by hand.
I replaced the nozzle by the original one (0.4mm) and it worked like a charm.

So I drilled the clogged nozzle with a 2mm drill to remove all the plastic.. but I guess the small 0.25mm is clogged because even doing that, I cannot push filament...

Do you guys know any way to clean it??

0.25mm is a challenge. I've been using a 0.2mm on Printrbot and it often gets clogged.

one thing to try is burning away all the material. hold the nozzle with needlenose pliers taking care not to grab anything in a way that could distort the brass when it heated and soft. use a torch to very very carefully heat up the nozzle. you don't want the nozzle to get red hot so vary the heat so that it gets hot enough to burn all the material but not so much that it turns red. the reason is you dont want the nozzle to get so hot the metal gets soft and deforms. this is why you have to take care where you hold it with the pliers.

after its burned away and cooled off use soft brushes to clean away the burned material. if you happen to have an ultrasonic cleaner its a good way to give the nozzle a finishing clean. otherwise just carefully use brushes and pipe cleaners. then find a wire that is about 0.2mm and clean out the hole.

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After burning all the material inside the nozzle, I tried to pass a 0.2mm cooper wire through the hole, but no success.. it gets in about 1mm and then bends..,
Really difficult to clean theses nozzles.. It would be better if E3D provide us with a wire to clean the nozzle.. it is not that easy to find a 0.25mm diameter hard wire..

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AlexBorro
After burning all the material inside the nozzle, I tried to pass a 0.2mm cooper wire through the hole, but no success.. it gets in about 1mm and then bends..,
Really difficult to clean theses nozzles.. It would be better if E3D provide us with a wire to clean the nozzle.. it is not that easy to find a 0.25mm diameter hard wire..

Try heating it even more. but be careful! not to too much. you can get slightly red hot as long as you are holding the nozzle so nothing gets deformed. for example hold it in the filament side of the nozzle across the shell thickness. don't hold it across the width of the threads because it can deform when heated as it softens. really heat it up and try again. any plastic should turn to carbon eventually.

what material is it? if PLA... I don't know of an easy to find solvent for it.

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AlexBorro
After burning all the material inside the nozzle, I tried to pass a 0.2mm cooper wire through the hole, but no success.. it gets in about 1mm and then bends..,
Really difficult to clean theses nozzles.. It would be better if E3D provide us with a wire to clean the nozzle.. it is not that easy to find a 0.25mm diameter hard wire..

Pin gage:
Made from tool steel 60/64 Rc cold stabilized for durability.
$6.90 + $4.06 shipping.
Dia 0.25 mm (0.010" inch).
Tolerance of +-0.0002 inches.
Vermont Gage Steel No-Go Plug Gage, Tolerance Class ZZ (Inch)

You can also buy guitar strings. Some E strings are 0.10"

Guitar strings! great idea.

Today I spent the day (yes day) trying to get 1.75mm taulman t-glase to print using a E3D v5 1.75 end. no go after many hours and working through all the variables. when I switch to PLA or ABS 1.75, prints like a dream. in fact doing all the tweeks with t-glase helped with PLA and ABS. I just completed a 2 hour print with PLA with no problems. But lets back up a bit...

One thing I wanted to check was the temp inside the hot end body (heat sink). i placed a thermistor in there about in the middle and measured 50-55C. what led me to do this was I print with a 100C bed and 3 layers of t-glase is very maliable at 100C. when I'd go to pop off the failed print (due to endless jamming/pigtail-ing) it would peel off like hot caramel. so this made me wonder if perhaps it was too hot in the body. 50-55C didn't make me feel comfortable. granted its 50C cooler.

So I used a couple thingiverse things to create a fan shroud that would accept a 50mm fan. this replaced the 30mm fan. I tried the fan both blowing in and out. in won and dropped the temp down to 40C. this makes me feel more comfortable.

Print. Fail.

So I am reading in another forum that its about tweeking the extruder filament feed tension. oy. ok i will keep trying it. but in the meantime...

the 50mm fan experiment works great. it keeps the body 10-15C cooler AND is much quieter than the 30mm fan which is a noisy little bugger! wow.

I do feel nozzle changes are a pain and would prefer to accept the risks of separate thead-ins for the nozzle and heat break. and a retainer nut on the top of the heat break to lock it in. also would like the thermistor divit to be drilled into the middle of the block, just beside the nozzle as close as possible. since they are using those small 1.1mm thermistor, make sure to keep the divit far enough away from the nozzle wall so that a person like me who replaces that immediately with the more sane 2.2mm EPCOS can drill it out and still leave enough of a wall. those changes would make for a v6 block and an easy upgrade. perhaps a new break too to accomodat a lock bolt. But hey, I'm not E3D. there are just some ideas from using the hot ends for a weeks or so.

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