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Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]

Posted by SanjayM 
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 17, 2014 07:27AM
Quote
plexus
Guitar strings! great idea.

Today I spent the day (yes day) trying to get 1.75mm taulman t-glase to print using a E3D v5 1.75 end. no go after many hours and working through all the variables. when I switch to PLA or ABS 1.75, prints like a dream. in fact doing all the tweeks with t-glase helped with PLA and ABS. I just completed a 2 hour print with PLA with no problems. But lets back up a bit...

One thing I wanted to check was the temp inside the hot end body (heat sink). i placed a thermistor in there about in the middle and measured 50-55C. what led me to do this was I print with a 100C bed and 3 layers of t-glase is very maliable at 100C. when I'd go to pop off the failed print (due to endless jamming/pigtail-ing) it would peel off like hot caramel. so this made me wonder if perhaps it was too hot in the body. 50-55C didn't make me feel comfortable. granted its 50C cooler.

So I used a couple thingiverse things to create a fan shroud that would accept a 50mm fan. this replaced the 30mm fan. I tried the fan both blowing in and out. in won and dropped the temp down to 40C. this makes me feel more comfortable.

Print. Fail.

So I am reading in another forum that its about tweeking the extruder filament feed tension. oy. ok i will keep trying it. but in the meantime...

the 50mm fan experiment works great. it keeps the body 10-15C cooler AND is much quieter than the 30mm fan which is a noisy little bugger! wow.

I do feel nozzle changes are a pain and would prefer to accept the risks of separate thead-ins for the nozzle and heat break. and a retainer nut on the top of the heat break to lock it in. also would like the thermistor divit to be drilled into the middle of the block, just beside the nozzle as close as possible. since they are using those small 1.1mm thermistor, make sure to keep the divit far enough away from the nozzle wall so that a person like me who replaces that immediately with the more sane 2.2mm EPCOS can drill it out and still leave enough of a wall. smiling smiley those changes would make for a v6 block and an easy upgrade. perhaps a new break too to accomodat a lock bolt. But hey, I'm not E3D. there are just some ideas from using the hot ends for a weeks or so.

The manufacturing cost would skyrocket if they left material between the nozzle and heat break in the heat block. First they would have to drill these holes with an endmill, or circular interpolate it as I doubt they have an endmill with the tap drill diameter they are using or otherwise find a way to get a flat bottomed hole. Then they would have to use bottoming taps ( maybe in addition to the plug tap) and turn the ends of everything down because even with the bottoming taps you will not get full thread to the bottom. They may even be able to thread mill it but still as you can not get a full thread, the heat breaks and nozzles would need a healthy chamfer or step down on the end.

It makes things much more complicated and prone to fail or be rejected.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2014 07:27AM by tjb1.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 17, 2014 07:44AM
Plexus, what nozzle are you using?? Bear in mind you need a larger nozzle for TGlase, like 0.7mm. It is quite difficult to extrude and generates high pressures. Forget about 0.4mm or thinner nozzles.
But I could print it with no problem at all.

What issues are you facing??

Alex.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 17, 2014 12:21PM
Quote
AlexBorro
Plexus, what nozzle are you using?? Bear in mind you need a larger nozzle for TGlase, like 0.7mm. It is quite difficult to extrude and generates high pressures. Forget about 0.4mm or thinner nozzles.
But I could print it with no problem at all.

What issues are you facing??

Alex.

I'll second that. I tried 0.4mm nozzle and I could only get it to work with 1.75mm filament. 3mm filament is really not possible with anything less than 0.5mm nozzle.

Eric
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 18, 2014 12:14PM
I designed a dual extusion capable extruder for E3D hot end and Prusa i3. [www.thingiverse.com]
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 20, 2014 05:28AM
so when are you guys planning on shipping out the kraken hot end for this months batch?
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 20, 2014 05:02PM
Quote
aduy
so when are you guys planning on shipping out the kraken hot end for this months batch?

[i.imgur.com]
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 20, 2014 05:29PM
I recently upgrade my 1.75mm E3D with a 0.6mm nozzle. Happily all of the jams I was experiencing (due to slow extrudes coupled with frequent retracts) went away, my print quality is awesome (still using 0.2mm layers) and prints are faster due to the wider extrusion. I plan to do the same for my 3mm E3D hot end.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 20, 2014 06:08PM
.65 is what I normally run on my current hot end, the extrusion width can go basically as low as the nozzle width without issue and the flow is increased a lot.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 21, 2014 12:59PM
You drilled it yourself? Or is this a non E3D you are talking about?
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 21, 2014 02:58PM
non e3d, but drilling is not difficult, you just need some quality bits.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 24, 2014 05:35AM
Extruder dialled in, and I must say it works incredibly well. Very smooth prints, very detailed. Still struggling a bit with ABS (delaminated like nothing...), but working on getting that fixed.
In all, quite happy with the hot end, just ordered some spare parts (not needed, but wanted to order a .6 mm nozzle anyhow, so added a heatbreak just in case...)
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 24, 2014 08:03AM
Quote
anixie
Extruder dialled in, and I must say it works incredibly well. Very smooth prints, very detailed. Still struggling a bit with ABS (delaminated like nothing...), but working on getting that fixed.
In all, quite happy with the hot end, just ordered some spare parts (not needed, but wanted to order a .6 mm nozzle anyhow, so added a heatbreak just in case...)


Nice, could you show some pics please smiling bouncing smiley


Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.
How do you tighten the Heat Break with the Heat Sink
January 25, 2014 04:04AM
Hello,
I recently purchased a E3D hotend and am in the process of assembling it to my Greg Wade extruder. I looked at the document that shows how you tighten the nozzle against the heat break at 300 deg.C. The problem that I am seeing is that the heat break is somewhat loose in the heat sink. There is no way to tighten it in the heatsink. I have not yet done the final tightening at temp, but I can't see how that would tighten the heatbreak in the heatsink. The whole assembly wants to rotate in the heat sink. Is this normal or should the heatbreak have a tighter thread coupling in the heatsink ? Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong ?

P.S. This is my first time on any forum

Thanks
Re: How do you tighten the Heat Break with the Heat Sink
January 25, 2014 06:36AM
@Madhu. yes, the heat break is a little bit loose in the heat sink.. just tight with your hands and it's enough.. after assembled, the heater cables will block any rotation... don't mind about it..

About the extruder, I have done a version specially for E3D.. It's way better than any other version I have used:
[www.thingiverse.com]

Cheers.

Alex.
Re: How do you tighten the Heat Break with the Heat Sink
January 25, 2014 03:35PM
Quote
Madhu
Hello,
I recently purchased a E3D hotend and am in the process of assembling it to my Greg Wade extruder. I looked at the document that shows how you tighten the nozzle against the heat break at 300 deg.C. The problem that I am seeing is that the heat break is somewhat loose in the heat sink. There is no way to tighten it in the heatsink. I have not yet done the final tightening at temp, but I can't see how that would tighten the heatbreak in the heatsink. The whole assembly wants to rotate in the heat sink. Is this normal or should the heatbreak have a tighter thread coupling in the heatsink ? Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong ?

P.S. This is my first time on any forum

Thanks

The heat break is loose until you tighten up the nozzle against it. That is normal. Personally I find that 220C is sufficient temperature for tightening it up to prevent leakage. (I swap nozzles quite a bit)
I hold the cube section that the nozzle screws into with one wrench and tighten the nozzle with another. The heatsink is then also held in place securely.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 25, 2014 03:40PM
Is there a home for E3D discussions apart from a thread in general? Compared to a jhead it is Magick! So it deserves one :-)
Re: How do you tighten the Heat Break with the Heat Sink
January 26, 2014 01:09AM
Alex and Ralph,

Really appreciate the reply. My main concern was the coupling between the Heat Break and the Heat Sink. I guess that the heat break threads are coupled closely enough to transfer the heat to the Aluminum walls of the heat sink. I also expect that it is important for the heat to be transferred at each thread layer so that the desired thermal gradient can be maintained between the cold, plastic and molten states. In any case I am glad to learn that slight looseness is a non-issue.

Please note that this is my first printer. I had bought this MendelMax 1.5 frame on E-bay and procured all the rest of the parts. It was partially assembled. I sourced the rest of the parts. The guy also threw in a Greg Wade's extruder and a strange old design hot end. I got it working and got my first 20mm hollow box print. (This is the one that is like the first dollar which goes in a frame). Unfortunately, after another print, smoke of burning PLA started coming out of the resistor hole. Had to tear it all apart to find that the main 5/16 inch internal thread in the Heater Block encroached in to the resistor hole. Bad plastic smell. That ended my start and I did a lot of research to find one of the best and ended up buying the E3D.

Alex: I looked at your extruder design. I like the way the E3d Fits in there. Once I get this going then I can print some of these parts.

I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. I have a Aluminum plate that is mounted on the X-Carriage and the E3D- and the Extruder mount to it. There are some plastic connectors (JST) that will allow me to disconnect any component. My question is: Will that 1/8 inch thick Aluminum plate get too hot for the plastic connectors or am I OK there because of the fan on the heat sink.

Thanks,

Madhu
Re: How do you tighten the Heat Break with the Heat Sink
January 26, 2014 05:48AM
Hi Madhu,

You will have no problems at all with JST connectors.
Just for information the heatsink fins do not get over 50ºC with E3D cooler running,

Cheers.

Alex.
Re: How do you tighten the Heat Break with the Heat Sink
January 26, 2014 08:38PM
Alex,

Thanks. That makes me feel better abou this. I might post some PDF files of my designs later some time.

Madhu
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
January 26, 2014 09:00PM
Just ordered mine for testing with the bulldog XL. Can't wait to try it out.


WWW.ZATOPA.COM - Your Place for high quality 3D Printing Filament and accessories
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 02, 2014 12:53PM
Does anyone know if there are any implications to using an E3D v5 inside a heated chamber?; Will the cooling fan still be able to do its job if its blowing warm air onto the cooling fins, or do I need to look at some ducting which would feed cooler air from outside the build chamber?

Cheers,

Will
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 02, 2014 03:22PM
Will, think about it. the cooling will only be effective down to the temp of the air in the chamber. mine stays in the 40-50C range when ambient is around 20C. presumably if you increase ambient, fin cooling will go up. you will have to experiment to see if it too high with whatever material you use.


[www.printrbottalk.com] Printrbot Forum and Wiki
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 02, 2014 04:22PM
Yeah, fair enough- point taken! Will set it up and give It a go!
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 02, 2014 04:33PM
Quote
w.harris87
Does anyone know if there are any implications to using an E3D v5 inside a heated chamber?; Will the cooling fan still be able to do its job if its blowing warm air onto the cooling fins, or do I need to look at some ducting which would feed cooler air from outside the build chamber?

Cheers,

Will

The increased air temp will only be an issue if you are printing PLA as it has a very low Tg. Then again, PLA printing does not require a heated chamber so I doubt that you intend on trying it. As for ABS and other higher temp plastics, I have had not issues with the chamber temp at around 40C.

Edit** I forgot to mention that 40C chamber temp is not the maximum temp that worked for me. I have only tested up to 40C because I cannot insulate the chamber well enough to get the chamber temp higher than 40C. I am sure that the hot end would work even at higher air temperatures.

Eric

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2014 04:36PM by RP Iron Man.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 02, 2014 04:50PM
Eric,

Thank you very much- that is what i suspected, but always good to hear it from someone who has been there and tried it!

Cheers,

Wilk
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 03, 2014 09:43AM
Got my E3D installed and printing over the weekend. Im using Black PLA from what I think is a Chinese source (local guy who probably buys it form China). So far so good.


greghoge.com

HUGE 3D PRINTER PARTS SALE!!!
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 11, 2014 07:32PM
got mine today (1.75mm bowden), but wasnt able to print successfully yet. It keeps jamming, at 180°C as well as at 230°C with pla... strange thing is: at 180° it extrudes fine for about 10 seconds, then jams. if i manually retract ~10mm and refeed its working again for another 10 seconds, then jams again. Same behaviour at 230° where pla should flush out like water, no sollution for that so far. heatsink is nearly hand-warm at the lowest fin, only thing is saw is when i pull out the whole bowden, at the end of the pulled out pla it grows in diameter with a sharp, visible and non-centric edge. about .1mm thicker, not more..... :/
A2
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 11, 2014 07:54PM
@eagreen:

I would like to see a picture of the filament with the increased diameter, if it's a repeatable event.
What color filament?
Did you probe the orifice with a small wire to see if there was an occlusion?

Seems like the heat exchanger would feel very hot to the touch.
Do you have a fan on the fins with a shroud?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 12:08AM by A2.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 11, 2014 08:28PM
The only time I got jams that fast was with a big retraction, but I really didn't need so much since I'm not using a bowden.
Re: Update on the E3D All Metal Hotend (Now finally shipping!) smileys with beer [Lots of pictures]
February 12, 2014 12:59AM
hi,

thx for the quick responses smiling smiley

its white pla which i already printed with an j-head hotend until its peek part broke into pieces :/
i'm using a shrouded fan, temperature between first an 2nd fin is 33° @ 240° heater block. i also found that it jams always when its not extruding for about 5 to 10 seconds
some pictures:


Assebled Hotend



pulled out pla after jamming:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2014 01:00AM by eagreen.
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