news about 3d printed firearms
May 28, 2013 05:42PM
Hello everybody.

There are many news articles about 3d printed firearms...

I am not interested in making one myself, however i am curious what polymers can be used to withstand the force and heat energy associated with the explosion

Are those barrels rifled and how long do they last?

Is it possible to print a plastic internal combustion engine?
If the engine would have many cylinders that fire less often than in an ordinary engine, maybe the heat can be dissipated.
A Macomber Engine... However a printed swashplate will wear out. Pistons need to have a lower mechanical advantage for the stroke when combustion happens, then for the rest of the cycle, probably.

What do you think?

I know that it is a fantasy and it has as much scientific value as sending crickets to space.
--Vladimir T.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 28, 2013 06:49PM
A plastic rifled barrel would be pointless, in a real rifled barrel the grooves are the same(and harder than the lead) material as the barrel and they actually create grooves in the lead bullet(the softer material) as it travels down the barrel.
In a plastic rifled barrel the lead is the harder material so it actually deforms the barrel.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2013 06:50PM by matty2013.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 28, 2013 07:08PM
True
But what if the plastic the gun is made of is made out of some kind of aluminum oxide dust and plastic mixture?
It will not last for ever but this will make it harder than lead where grains of hard material are sticking out.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 01:39AM
matty2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A plastic rifled barrel would be pointless, in a
> real rifled barrel the grooves are the same(and
> harder than the lead) material as the barrel and
> they actually create grooves in the lead
> bullet(the softer material) as it travels down the
> barrel.
> In a plastic rifled barrel the lead is the harder
> material so it actually deforms the barrel.

I believe you mean a plastic rifled barrel would be ineffective - it still serves a distinct purpose, namely remaining legal under the terms of the 1934 NFA (as far as US law is concerned). In the Liberator testing done by myself and another engineer, the barrel bore widens so much from cartridge expansion that the bullet doesn't even appear to touch the rifling, so it is ineffective in providing any gyroscopic stabilization.

Even if you used an alumina oxide mineral filler, the inherent weakness of the polymer matrix will still be the limiting factor. Tarakan, as far as a printed internal combustion engine, Ford actually developed a plastic engine in the early 1980s, though it did have a number of metal parts (cylinder sleeves, valves, seats, etc.). I suppose it's theoretically possible that we could see a printable engine at some point (with the same metal items), but just as for printed gun barrels approaching usability, we'd need to be printing in some extremely high performance thermoplastics (Torlon, Vespel, PEEK, etc.) - right now Ultem 9085 is the highest performance material available for the FDM process, and it's not quite to the level of the ones I mentioned.


[haveblue.org]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 09:18AM
Someone should respond to this 3D Printed gun mess with a 3D Printed bulletproof vest.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 10:29AM
That's not a bad idea! Maybe snap together ABS armour scales with kevlar cloth sandwich might be pretty tough.The 3d printing aspect would be used to tailor the scales to fit an individual comfortably.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 10:31AM
LOL

One could start here: Thingiverse: Chainmail


--------------------------------------------------------
Custom all metal CoreXY
- Duet 2 Wifi w/ PanelDue 7i
- 330mm x 360mm x 500mm
- 750w Silicon heater

Custom Mendel90
(Backup printer - Old reliable!) - Sold
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 10:37AM
Actually, I've pondered that a bit, and it may actually be an excellent application for 3D printing, especially given the per-user customization available. HDPE is used in many ballistic plates - it's bulkier than ceramic plates, but much lighter.


ShadowRam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone should respond to this 3D Printed gun mess
> with a 3D Printed bulletproof vest.


[haveblue.org]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 11:24AM
just make an extruder that can spit out kevlar and cut it.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 01:03PM
aduy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just make an extruder that can spit out kevlar and
> cut it.

You need a spinneret to create aramid fiber, which would then need to be gathered, woven, and layered for ballistic protection - not something feasible anytime soon via 3D printing, especially since the polymer solvent used for spinning is pure sulfuric acid... However, printing solid HDPE plates is certainly within reach of current FDM printing, I think. No, you may not be able to get full level III protection from a printed ballistic plate right away, but I think the concept has promise.


[haveblue.org]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 07:03PM
aduy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just make an extruder that can spit out kevlar and
> cut it.


Why not just use polycarbonate? It's already printable and has been used in bullet proofing glass for a long time. I could see a seashell like shape with a top that could be sewed on, then overlap them on a garment like roof shingles.

It would have to be pretty thick to stop anything but small calibers but it's a start. You could make little bags made of kevlar to encase each seashell and then sew it to a kevlar vest. Should stop anything below a 45.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 07:47PM
There might even be a possibility that the right infill pattern would create a 3d cell structure to dissipate energy efficiently by deforming. Again something that might be difficult to achieve by another manufacturing process.

Of course if decent 3d printed armour is developed then some latter day Ned Kelly type will give it a bad name fairly soon after I'm sure smiling smiley
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 09:32PM
actually some early "bulletproof" vests, and i use that term lightly, were made using nylon. the latest and most effective vest is called the dragon skin and involves overlapping ceramic discs.

ok well we probably cant get these discs, but we can get small ceramic tiles and embed them in a printed nylon vest. it would be quite simple, the nylon is pretty flexible so it could be printed solid but thin. design a two piece vest with cavities for the small tiles. print the two pieces, but before the printer tries to bridge over the cavities simply insert the tiles. heck you could even print the clips that hold it together, or zippers.

[en.wikipedia.org]
[en.wikipedia.org])
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 29, 2013 09:38PM
Some fool made a disposable pistol that will fire several rounds and jam. Now we have some more intelligent people talking about bullet proof vests that may shield their user from the bullet as effectively as plastic guns can shoot them.

Reliability is the most valued quality of a firearm. If someone wants to fight using plastic guns that person deserves nothing but compassion...
Going hunting with it is a bad idea because I feel like there will be a lot of wounded, suffering animals that will have to be finished off with a knife.

I started this topic as a joke...

Ceramic disks or kevlar can be attached by other means than 3D printing. I would just use fabric and a sewing machine if I really had to.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 31, 2013 01:09PM
I think soon every owner of a 3D Printer will have to have it registered... same as that of a TV or firearm. Sad but true sad smiley

We may even see some advanced high tensile filaments containing DATA-DOT technology (nono sized particles of data) ( paint that contains digital data pertaining to the owner ) A lot of cars are sprayed with this already to prevent theft of parts. Police have scanners that read the nano particles.
Its easy to apply Data-Dots to filament. I sure hope it comes into action sooner than later...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2013 01:19PM by Mickman.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 31, 2013 02:30PM
yes because all fire arms and tvs are registered... tvs really? are they going to register all of the cnc machines too? what about wrenches you can use a wrench to make a 12 gauge shot gun at the hardware store.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
May 31, 2013 10:55PM
The idea of registering a homemade 3d printer is ridiculous. I don't need a 3d printer to make a much safer plastic gun and not detectable by metal detector

The Boston bomber was using pressure cooker and killed and injure a lot of people more than a real gun could. So are we going to register pressure cooker too?
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 01:27AM
I am not extruding your data-dots. I would just get a filament maker.


[www.matter-replicator.com]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 09:13AM
aduy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tvs really?

In some countries there is a tax associated with owning (operating) TV and radio receivers, so yes you have to register them so you can happily pay the tax. There even used to be special vans to detect operating TV and radio receivers based on leakage of IM and oscillator frequency back into the antenna. But this is no longer case here, because you get implicitly charged based on fact that you consume electricity (unless you make legal statement that you don't own TV/radio)..
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 09:23AM
I've seen a man kill with his bare hands. Tired of topics like this winking smiley
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 09:47AM
Bwaaaa talk about the combustion engine :p

I have thought about a stirling engine. Basically use a big tin can and a smaller tin can slides back and forth inside displacing the air to where it is cooled and heated. The big outer can has a membrane on it, and which moves back and forth.

I attached the .scad file of a visualization i made before the ovaloid thing would be on the membrane.(use the animate function of openscad) (i find the command line stuff a bit limited. Why no stuff like --view-pos 10,10,10 --view-up 0,0,1 --look-at 0,0,0 -o someimage.png or even .gif though imagemagick can do it)

The printed parts would all be in the cold end. That might be cold enough.

That said, i dont know in what parameters exactly such a stirling engine it would work. The frequency has to be such that it can actually heat up/cool down sufficiently and it needs the momentum to actually do cycles.
Attachments:
open | download - stir.scad (3.1 KB)
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 10:45AM
miso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aduy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tvs really?
>
> In some countries there is a tax associated with
> owning (operating) TV and radio receivers, so yes
> you have to register them so you can happily pay
> the tax. There even used to be special vans to
> detect operating TV and radio receivers based on
> leakage of IM and oscillator frequency back into
> the antenna. But this is no longer case here,
> because you get implicitly charged based on fact
> that you consume electricity (unless you make
> legal statement that you don't own TV/radio)..

[en.wikipedia.org]


[www.matter-replicator.com]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 10:47AM
Quote
The critical method of detecting TV licence evaders is through the use of a database system known as LASSY,[52] which contains 29.5 million[53] addresses in the UK. This database is routinely updated with licence details and with details submitted by dealers in television receiving equipment, all of whom are required by law to provide TV Licensing with identifying information about everyone who buys or rents such equipment.[54]


[www.matter-replicator.com]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 10:54AM
Yes but TV's don't self replicate.

Also my dad built a colour TV from scratch when I was kid, so that would never have been on a database had it existed then.


[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 01:28PM
Guns, combustion engines, body armor, stirling engines, TV licenses. This thread is going in all directions.. Data dots is yet another direction..
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 06:13PM
rsilvers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> miso Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > aduy Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > tvs really?
> >
> > In some countries there is a tax associated
> with
> > owning (operating) TV and radio receivers, so
> yes
> > you have to register them so you can happily
> pay
> > the tax. There even used to be special vans to
> > detect operating TV and radio receivers based
> on
> > leakage of IM and oscillator frequency back
> into
> > the antenna. But this is no longer case here,
> > because you get implicitly charged based on
> fact
> > that you consume electricity (unless you make
> > legal statement that you don't own TV/radio)..
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> in_the_United_Kingdom


That's not the same kind of licensing, that's a fee for receiving broadcasts. It is like paying for cable or satellite here in the US. in that case you are paying for a service. if you own a gun there is now service being rendered.
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 06:53PM
I have an idea.. Instead of charging people to watch TV - get companies to sponsor the broadcasts and let them show their products to the viewers between segments of the shows.


[www.matter-replicator.com]
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 07:05PM
Thats a terrible idea, i mean how much will those advertisers pay for people to watch their ads? 0.1$/h? You'd be crazy to waste time from your life for that sort of income!
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 07:08PM
@rsilvers: That way commercial TV stations work, but you can't expect corrupted national TV station to work this way, they wont survive a year. And they have to, because its matter of public welfare and national prestige smiling smiley
Re: news about 3d printed firearms
June 01, 2013 08:01PM
haha you guys, pbs(public broadcast system) is paid for with tax payers money.
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