The Disappointments and Failures of TrinityLabs Aluminatus

Hell I wish I had the luck you did in getting them to send a return address and refund, This company hasn't even responded to my requests to ship the kit back or to get updated documentation from them for assembly of the new kit. I'm not blowing up their inbox and have been very reasonable in my requests, but have been sending one email every 10 days or so without any response.

Stay away from these guys. Go with more proven 3d printers.

~Bryan

I do not know if you have, but take a look on their google groups forum, there are a few threads that explain whats going on. Particularly these threads:

[groups.google.com]

[groups.google.com]

[groups.google.com]

Shame to see any new business fail but he was having pretty substantial issues prior to any health issue he is having. Looks like they're done.

Yeah I saw those threads. I've been trying to join that google group in fact and haven't been granted membership to get help on either returning this thing, selling it, or just getting it assembled.

It really chaps my hide. I've been patient with this company. They delayed shipping my order by FOUR MONTHS to make upgrades and changes. I kept quiet the whole time and just waited patiently. When I finally got my kit, I found out there were no assembly instructions for the new kit. They just sort of expected everyone to figure it out. I paid for a kit that,when I ordered it, had complete assembly instructions. They never did new instructions for the new kit. I emailed about updated docs. No response for days. When I finally got a reply they said that updated instructions would be completed after maker Faire. so I waited another 10 days and asked on progress where I was promptly told that documentation was really low on their priority list and was told I should just ask questions to group members on the google groups board to figure out how to assemble this. I responded that was unacceptable as I don't have time to putz around with it for days and wanted an ETA on updated docs and/or an address to ship this back to and get a refund and I haven't heard from them since. I've been sending a message every ten days or so trying to be reasonable with my correspondence. But they've pushed me far enough. I read that for some members that lived close by Ezra, the creator, he assembled the new batch of printers they bought for them. So I know there are some pretty smart people that can't just figure out how to assemble this kit without docs. Others in that group keep finding they put something on wrong and have to take it apart a few times before they got it right. I'm not one of those that wants to mess with assembly as a hobby for days or weeks.

So I have a kit just sitting on a table unassembled and I can't even get membership to the google group because it keeps saying awaiting approval or some such.

These guys have really taken the fun out of this and I'd rather have bought a cheaper, fully assembled, printer with small build platform that's been proven because I'd be playing and getting my ideas out there 3 months ago. it's so frustrating.

your best bet is to come into IRC #reprap or #trinitylabs there's plenty of people who can help with assembly

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

I find it hard to believe he has health problems. When I read the IRC chats in the page before this one, he is telling about how much he is going to love his new CNC machine instead of helping the guy with the problem.

Maybe it's a different problem he's having? I saw a documentary on a guy who had a company and got hooked to a substance that would help him work longer days but the work focussed more and more around his 'usage' instead of around his work and orders were not being fulfilled and more stuff like that.

I'm sorry, but for me it's just hard to believe, and even if it's health issues, it doesn't justify the treatment of the customers prior to his condition.

lajos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ouch. Make that a double ouch. I didn't realize
> you paid so much for shipping/customs. Just that
> would've bought you a really nice printer. Can you
> negotiate with TL to refund those costs?

I agree. Given a google search for trinitylabs has this as the 3rd hit I would have thought it would be for the best.
Good luck Repper.

Update: 6 weeks later....

Hello guys,
there is no news here. I am still waiting for a piece of contact with this criminal company called Trinitylabs.
6 weeks ago Ezra promised me shipping my parts, what happened ? nothing.
I am waiting now for 5 month to get a working printer (out of the box )

Since i heared that is Ezra is ill, dont know if its true, i tryed to contact Rose from Trinitylabs, wich is/was the organizer of this company.
a week ago Rose told us via Googlegroups "Goodbye" and she is not working anymore for Tlabs.
So.... there is no administative contact to Trinitylabs at the moment without "Regan" wich is Ezras (the owner) wife.
Finally people reconommed me to send her a mail. So i did 2 weeks ago and what happened ?
Nothing, no answer, no shipping confirmation, no excuse mail.

Stay away from these guys. Go with more proven 3d printers.

Hey Brian,
100% signed


This company is dead.
But still, i'll keep updating this thread.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2013 05:50AM by Repper.

Hi All,
I'm not part of TL, but I had the pleasure of spending a week at TrinityLabs.

I appreciate your concerns, but can assure you that Ezra and company have the best of intentions.

I'm not suggesting this excuses some of the issues, but readers should know that:
The delivery date estimates were reasonable at the time, but beyond TL's control, multiple suppliers failed to deliver components on time or to spec.
A skilled, but unscrupulous (now former) employee pulled some stuff that caused a lot of damage.
The short notice (ambush) sale (and notice to vacate) of the business location did not help.
Aside from better communication with customers, it's hard to imagine how any small self-funded start up could do any better when all of this grief happen in a short time span.

I saw emplyees working 16 hour days because they care. Rose was working 12+ hour days while nearly due to deliver a baby. Chris, thank you for all of your help at 3am!
Ezra basically works all the time and is a genuinely nice guy in addition to his genius.
I bought a printer and experienced some of the issues mentioned above. However, my experience with TL and the printer are great.

To Ezra and TrinityLabs, hang in there. It will get better and I'm looking forward to working with you in the future. Thank you for all of your hard work.

Sincerely, Ken Ward, Ashland Oregon

I can sympathize. As a supplier myself, I know it's tough. But it's been my personal experience that most of those types of issues are preventable.

For example, receiving an order for a product you don't actually have on a shelf somewhere at that moment is playing with fire. Maybe the shipment will be delayed, maybe you'll open the box and discover that the parts are faulty, or damaged in transit, or half missing, or one of another thousand things that can go wrong. In these cases, you have to suck it up and list the product as out of stock, because building up a backlog or orders you can't yet ship means you're going to have to work even harder once the correct stuff is eventually delivered, and your customers are going to start getting pissed off as the days tick by.

It's an example of not building resiliency into your business plan, because it puts you at the mercy of a whole bunch of people who are not you all having their butts in gear and being on the same page. Selling kits by waiting until you actually have all the components in your hand may be harder and result in fewer sales when you're ordering a low volume of parts, but it's the right way to go because it allows you to avoid a few of the issues you mentioned.

Same thing with getting your location sold from under you. No reputable landlord and sane lease agreement is going to do something like that. Same thing with employees. Technical skills aren't enough; people skills are at least as important, if not more.

I have no doubt that the TL folks were working 16 hours a day to try to get things working. But without a resilient business model and good customer communication, it's like pushing down on the pedal while the engine is in neutral. The important metric is not how hard the engine is working but how far the car is traveling.

Pointedstick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Same thing with getting your location sold from
> under you. No reputable landlord and sane lease
> agreement is going to do something like that. Same
> thing with employees. Technical skills aren't
> enough; people skills are at least as important,
> if not more.


I'd agree. That goes back to the point that was made a couple weeks back (and several other times by various people) that many that hang out a shingle and start selling printers may have a good idea for a printer or know how to build one but for it to work basic business skills and knowledge are required. All of the issues stated are due to inadequate management. Most businesses fail not because the people aren't good at what they are doing, but because they don't have a comprehensive plan or are not able to manage whatever plan they have. I don't see Trinity Labs as an viable operation at this point. Perhaps those that were involved can take the lessons learned and incorporate them into whatever they do next.

I am still waiting on a refund. I received some money back but I am still missing a big chunk of change.

hey guys,

last update was one month ago and nothing happend.
i ordered my printer in february and Ezra fucked me and keeps going on fucking me.

No answer, !
No promised parts !

still a criminal company

ill keep on with posting.

best regrads

It's a lot easier to critique than it is to build your own company and see how easy it is to operate in this business climate. But if someone burnt me openly on the forums, I can assure you, they wouldn't get a single part from me. I've only had positive experiences with TrinityLabs and I don't think you have dealt with this in a grown up manner. My company had to lay people off because of the cuts in defense spending. And you're a victim?

3d printing vendors don't make fast food. It's not a simple thing that can be pumped out by the thousands with out regard for quality. Quality takes time.

ohioplastics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a lot easier to critique than it is to build
> your own company and see how easy it is to operate
> in this business climate. But if someone burnt me
> openly on the forums, I can assure you, they
> wouldn't get a single part from me. I've only had
> positive experiences with TrinityLabs and I don't
> think you have dealt with this in a grown up
> manner. My company had to lay people off because
> of the cuts in defense spending. And you're a
> victim?
>
> 3d printing vendors don't make fast food. It's not
> a simple thing that can be pumped out by the
> thousands with out regard for quality. Quality
> takes time.


Quality ?

you should read this thread from beginning

I can assure you, they
> wouldn't get a single part from me

so instead you would ship a new printer full of fails, promise to ship replacement and than stop contact ?
you know how many weeks i tryed to get in contact after they sold me this piece of ***** ?

Quality
> takes time.

there is no Quality at Trinitylabs.

All printer and Hotends they shipped have issues !


Check serios companys/sellers like:
Lulzbot
makerbot
nophead (m90)
.....

even if they do a mistake, you can get in contact and they will replace you for 100%.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2013 08:00PM by Repper.

If you can't get them to work, it's probably because you aren't a part of the secret society of enlightened people.

bad joke I know!

aluminatus/illuminatus

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2013 11:31AM by iquizzle.

ohioplastics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't
> think you have dealt with this in a grown up
> manner.


You have a delicious sense of irony...

Quote
vegasloki
You have a delicious sense of irony...

...never called him a criminal, only aloof. But this goes beyond childish, it's slanderous. People have been sued over much, much less.

Edit: I finally read through the entire forum. Why? Because I have no life? Most likely. My conclusion is unspeakable on the web. I've learned my lesson in calling people names like duchebag, pretentious little carpet muncher, holier than though self-entitled poser, and, last but not least, wannabe 3d printerer.

I'd never use that kind of language. victim mentality

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2013 02:16AM by ohioplastics.

This is an amazing saga. Too bad for Repper. But I also work in an international company in after sales and support and i tell you, when they are not getting a required part and we say nothing, they get nuts and it's understandable. Happens to me with some suppliers.

To that guy who said "i wouldn't send anything if i also get burned online" obviously cannot be owner of any successful company. We are not talking about a people - people relation but company - people. A company must be cold headed and give generous support to a product until is fully developed or well, keep getting burned online until nobody dare to try to get another piece of equipment from this company.

Repper already gave a lot of time to TrinityLabs to give a proper response. Repper, i wish you the best, but in this case i'd ask to receive the money FIRST, and then send with all expenses paid in destination with TL (ask them a courier account number)

If they do not pay the courier company they wont get the used machine but you will at least retreive the 1800 USD with is a big chunk of money anyway.

Hello GAZO,

i am very happy that i have not sent the printer back to Trinitylabs !
Why ?
Cause i am still waiting for my parts, for an excuse or a mail.
I send sometime mails or post in Tryinitylabs Group of google, but they never answer !
In June Ezra promised me to ship my parts and nothing happened.
He is a lyer, as his wife, wich is managing at the moment this company.

Think i would have shipped my printer back to Trinitylabs. They would never send my money.
At least i have some printerparts i can work with or sell them.

Nothing has changed !
Trinitylabs is threating their costumers very bad and Ezra and his wife are keeping on stealing peoples money.
I get every week mails here in forum from people that ask about help.
Sorry guys, i cant do anything to.
Just dont buy anything from Trinitylabs.

greetings and i will keep u updated.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2013 10:24PM by Repper.

Another update. I am still waiting for a refund of $500 from trinity labs. I have sent emails and I get nothing but an empty email that forwards my email to someone else at trinity labs. I made the mistake of trusting Ezra to be a man of his word when it came to business, a mistake I will not make again.

Hello fellows,

its about 7 month since i started this thread and i want to give you an update about my Aluminatus.
Of course the printer is still not printing, but after lots of writing E-mails, Josh Adams, who is working for Trinitylabs or managing this company since Ezra fled, some parts arrived today.

So this week i gonna try to rebuild the whole printer and i really hope, that my printer will work anytime soon.
I also want to say that there are a few (i mean very little) Aluminatus out there, that make amazing prints !
And this is the reason i give this printer a second try, instead of selling the whole parts and buying 2 good printer like MM, M90 or Ultimaker.

Anyway. My experience with Tlabs was very very bad. I lost alot of money. Im not the only one. Other costumers finally sold their printers for peanuts.
I will update here the whole rebuilding and some of my hopefully good prints.


Recently a few word for Ezra, cause im shure you gonna read this.
you remember you wrote this here ?

The vast majority of the first 99 printer users are happy with their machines and getting high quality prints. I'll freely admit that selling this printer 85% pre-assembled and letting the customers do the last gantry setup and then tuning/calibration was the biggest mistake here. This is why we no longer sell it as a kit but only fully assembled and fully calibrated turnkey at a price point that allows us to focus more time on each printer and not need to handle as large a voilume of units as each printer were talking about here is close to 35kilos of metal and custom fabricated and manufactured parts with significant lead times that can easily get out of control as i've learned here the hard way ;P

I still stand behind this printer and my customers and I'm still here working with anyone who has issues until they are sorted out and honestly have paid more myself for these 99 printers then the 99 customers did because it was a beta new platform with bleeding edge tech and design that needed real world use to be ironed out into a battletested machine. The first 99 customers paid less for the printer then they could buy just the components alone in single quantities as a loss leader because I knew I would have issues to work out on a newly birthed platform. Nothing is ever born 100% perfect without real world user feedback and I had to get that somehow which is why the cost was significantly lower then if it were a completely perfect platform.

I still have seen some of the best FFF prints roll off these printers then the majority of open hardware printers I've built and encountered in person and I am proud of this design. No it isn't perfect yet but are there any perfect 3d printers out there yet under $5k? Or even more money? Not that I've seen as this is a very young rapidly advancing tech we're all playing with here. Just felt the need to express this, back to your regularly scheduled bashing if you must winking smiley

you still stand behind your costumers and your product yes ? where are you ? hiding like a mole!
Dear Ezra Zygmuntowiczthe, you are the most unpleasant human i have made business in my life.
so many lies, dissapearing, liying again. promising, lying again and finally dissapearing.
you should be ashamed of yourself.
And yes. I am very happy for writing this thread. And its not about harming you. It was more to protect harmless people and i believe i have succeeded in this.
no more word for you.


to all readers. If there is an interest to make business with him, just get in touch and get cheated, easiest way to contact check below .

[www.linkedin.com]
[twitter.com]
[www.facebook.com]
[www.intridea.com]



Specially i want to thank to Josh Adams for behaving gentle.



I keep on updating ...

Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 08:21AM by Repper.

See
Vermont Rapid Prototyping
[www.vermontrapidprototyping.com]

A1 farm there is working pretty well

Must admit Trinitylabs developed a great printer design then croaked

I don't hear anything about their follow on printer (EVO-1)

There are 200 orphan printers instead of the first 200 of thousands of printers.

Just shows a great printer design just 5% of the job?????
Also shows people will purchase a $1800 - 2000 printer but NOT a $3500

Any follow ups on this?
Did your printer get finished Repper?
And what about his Twitter account, I see a lot of stuff being posted on there? I don't get it, apparently Repper, you are not being helped with your printer, but Ezra is still working hard on other things?

I hope all is well now.

Well, it turns out the reason he "fled" was he was fighting for his life:

[news.ycombinator.com]

Ezra was a really nice guy who accomplished a lot and inspired many people. He made mistakes, but he owned them and tried to make things right.

I recently had something happen that makes me realize how unforgiving the internet can be when it is populated by people hiding behind pseudonyms too afraid to actually face the real world. I was on Compuserve before the internet, and then pretty early on the internet because a friends dad worked for the goverment and had a really early internet connection. We worked together for 4 years and hosted a POP site at our offices, which gave us T1 access back when that cost 10s of thousands of dollars a month! At no time have I ever used a pseuodnym, and my friend taught me early on, never say anything on the internet you wouldn't say face to face. That has served me well.

Recently though I posted for sale on the Mach3 forum some boards I purchased but never used, and offered them for sale to people on the forum that could use them. I got a couple of responses quickly, responded a little, then went out of town for a few weeks with my job. Also immediately I was branded as some kind of scammer! No one bothered to simply google my real name, to see that I have NEVER not once been accused of starting a flame war or cheating anyone. In fact you'd find that sometimes I said something that was clearly wrong, and I admitted it publicly.

At one time I had my own company. I failed and along the way I admitted to my employees that I was really struggling, hadn't taken a pay check in months, and might not be able to make the next payroll. The response was amazing. A single guy living with his parents volunteered to delay his paycheck so those with families could get paid! Ultimately I did a deal with a larger company, that also failed. I had to close up and on the last day I shook hands with all of those that stood by me to the end and wished them well. Then I went home, broke down and cried in my wife's arms.

So in this instance I think Ezra made just one real mistake. He kept what was really going on for fear of being seen as someone lesser. In the silence people came to their own conclusions about him, that apparently were far from the truth. I hope all the truth comes out and changes his legacy to one that is positive.

RIP,
Gary H. Lucas

@foundwanting - as you will. Ez was CTO for two different companies after abandoning Trinity. He was a great guy, with a wild imagination and vision - and like many folks with that skillset, sorely lacking in the ability to actually run a business. I for one will miss him.


Thoughts and condolences to Regan and Ryland.