bed leveling

are there any easy solutions out there to automate the bed level process a little more?

I work 10 hours a day and have little time to use my reprap and it almost seems like everytime I try to print I spend 3+ hours trying to get the bed level then its bed time and I end up not doing a print then when I find time to mess with it I have to start all over again.

is bed level something you have to deal with on all 3d printers? im to the point that im really considering getting out of it due to issues I keep having with bed level

mine was a pita to do also if you have the spring loaded mendelmax bed start with the bolts tightened all the way I tried for 2 days to level until I found this online then had mine done in 20 minutes and hasnt budged in almost a week now

Because I was tired of the re-leveling all the time I just made an aluminum bed, made of two plates with the top one pushed up by springs. The bed never changes height. Just make sure the bed is absolutely level, and then, do the further adjustment for height with a screw that hits the endstop. When the bed is perfectly leveled, the height of your nozzle might not be ok, so that is fixed with the screw-adjustable endstop pusher thingy. After I made this heatbed, I haven't had to adjust for I can't remember how long ago it was, but surely longer than a month.

what materials are you using? different moisture levels and temp will effect height adjustment. also always measure height with a hot nozzle. this allows for thermal expansion of nozzle to be accounted for. also make sure the z axis limit switch is mounted tightly and does not flex. possibly slow down z homing rate to ensure even with flexing that the axis homes correctly.

tattooedfish Wrote:
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> are there any easy solutions out there to automate
> the bed level process a little more?

YES
Automatic bed probing and levelness compensation

[forums.reprap.org]
and
[forum.lulzbot.com]

Works very well so far.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/2013 01:47PM by 1013.

i wouldnt use springs

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Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]

I would, saves your nozzle when a print is warping.

chris33 Wrote:
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> i wouldnt use springs

Yes, springs help when a part warps.

I redesigned the bed mounts to use nyloc nuts. So far after a couple of months I haven't had to level it again.

Andy

Heres a small set of pictures so you can see how I made the heated bed:

Ohmarinus Wrote:
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> I would, saves your nozzle when a print is
> warping.
>
> chris33 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i wouldnt use springs

What do you mean Marinus?

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_______________________________________
Waitaki 3D Printer

Waitaki - When your part warps or an overhang curls up and your bed can't go down and your nozzle can't go up what happens when the nozzle hits the cooled plastic in it's way?

I overcame the problem by getting rid of the springs and using silicon rubber donuts instead.
The donuts I made because I couldn't find any, easy to make.
The donuts allow you to tighten the bed down very firm and once it is set there should be no need to change it again.
You can see the way I did it on my community website at [regpye.com.au]

Works a teat, easy to do and very stable.

Cheers,
Reg

ajayre Wrote:
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> Waitaki - When your part warps or an overhang
> curls up and your bed can't go down and your
> nozzle can't go up what happens when the nozzle
> hits the cooled plastic in it's way?

I know about that, I wanted to know what Marinus means by "saving your nozzle"?

As to the topic of this thread, I would not use springs and never have. I use a single nut on the X ends. My heated bed sits on an aluminium plate which has 3 adjustable support screws and locking nuts attaching it to the lower aluminium plate. Once the bed is levelled, it doesn't need to be touched again.

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_______________________________________
Waitaki 3D Printer

I should've said 'saves your hotend'. There are a few hotend types that are not that strong against hitting static objects, like the Buda and others that can damage a bit easier when put through the stress of getting hit in a sideways motion.

The Fabbster hotends were also notorious for breaking off when this would happen. I don't know if they already solved it, but a friend of mine has a Fabbster and he had the hotend break-off twice already.

And second, I just don't like my machine crashing into objects in the first place, no matter if it immediately breaks something or not, long-term damage can also come into play if your printer doesn't give way a little bit in these small hits 'n bumps it receives every time it has to push itself through an edge that has curled up a bit.



waitaki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ajayre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Waitaki - When your part warps or an overhang
> > curls up and your bed can't go down and your
> > nozzle can't go up what happens when the nozzle
> > hits the cooled plastic in it's way?
>
> I know about that, I wanted to know what Marinus
> means by "saving your nozzle"?
>
> As to the topic of this thread, I would not use
> springs and never have. I use a single nut on the
> X ends. My heated bed sits on an aluminium plate
> which has 3 adjustable support screws and locking
> nuts attaching it to the lower aluminium plate.
> Once the bed is levelled, it doesn't need to be
> touched again.

@tattooedfish what machine do you have?

I haven't levelled the bed on my reprappro mendel for months and it's fine.

Ben

Ok if you level bed at temperature you should not need springs and if parts warping it still going hit the part whatever I reckon so anyway

---

Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]

Well, I guess there is people who go that extra length to do a tiny improvement, and there's people who don't

chris33 Wrote:
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> Ok if you level bed at temperature you should not
> need springs and if parts warping it still going
> hit the part whatever I reckon so anyway

You shouldn't have to spend hours leveling. Print some nut trap holders for the nuts so you can adjust by hand, -no tools required then to make adjustments. (Not relevant for some setups I know). Even if you have a set up requiring a tool, you shouldn't need repeat leveling or hour long leveling sessions.

Some personal leveling observations:

If your hot end has a 'nipple'; temps, plastics, and leveling systems can lead to loss of mind / sleep. Get a nozzle without a nipple!

When things are 'solid' without worry that your hot end is going to hit a mountainous .4mm 'wall', you should be able to print on terribly un-leveled beds, you'll just be a bit unhappy with 1st or second layer 'texture' of the print if you need to level.

If you have to repeatedly level, find the thing that is causing this. (Loose glass holders, uneven wobbled smooth rods, loose hot-end mount..etc).

If using blue painters tape and PLA, get a tape that is wide so you don't need lots of small strips. I see no reason to use more than 1 layer on the glass (I've seen people do 2 layers perpendicular - madness.) Get a thin metal small 'spatula' useful for removing prints, this tool can be scraped on the tape to get a 'glass-flat' (nearly) surface after its applied.

The other day I noticed some unlevelness, I downloaded a leveling test object from Thingiverse that allowed me to get back to tolerable levelness by leveling the bed while the print was printing, time spent was 4 min total.

Be sure you don't chase your tail on a 4 point leveling system

invest in a dial indicator.

It makes a world of difference.

Sorry for not replying guys been busy my machine is a prusa I2 I have a MDF plate that 4 threaded rods pertrude out of from bottom up I am using the level nuts. One in each corner the heat bed is a mk1 my hot end is a mkiv-b I print with 3 km abs my printer is always hot when I'm trying to level it. I get it where it lays a even bead all the way around and I finally think I have it then when I go to print it will either be too far away or too close.

I'm not happy with it at this point I'm looking for suggestions and even possibly changing printers and using what I can off this printer im trying to start a small part time buisness but I need a machine I don't have to baby sit.

If your bed shows level with a torpedo level and you are still having issues lt's possible it could be a motion geometry issue in one of the axis or that your nozzle is skewed enough from perpendicular to make it appear as though the bed isn't level. The relationship between those parts determine how square and accurate your prints will be.

As for small batch prototyping, last year when I built the first printer I had plans to use it to prototype small parts for our motorsport fab operation. In the end it was more beneficial to keep prototyping using machine tools for our operation. For other shops using a printer might make sense but for us it didn't. There were two issues. First, we could only print plastic and while good for design proofs, we can't use them as prototypes in testing because the material is typically steel or aluminum. The second significant factor was labor/opportunity cost. Learning how to build, configure and operate the printer requires similar skills to that of a machine op for small batch. The machinery is less expensive as is the material but the labor to get the part prototyped and generate suitable g-code for one off small part didn't make sense for me. I had a $500 machine that used less than $1 of material but two to three times the labor cost including the time to print the part. In many cases the time it took to mill or turn a part using traditional methods was far quicker than using the printer and factoring in labor it was considerable less expensive. If your primary use is as a 3D print shop that's one thing but if you are doing small parts on conventional machine tools with a Reprap it's likely not going to save you any money.