HairSpray, Blue Tape, Glass ???

Just wondering what's the best approach to heated beds & PLA ?

I read that hairspray is used or blue painter's tape... & some even recommend plain glass..

note: I don't have a fan directed at the nozzle. If it helps I can easily purchase a fan...

So what temperature should I heat the plate to when trying hairspray & should I spray it on before heating the bed ?

I've tried Painter's tape but am having problems with the first few layers not sticking.. the PLA get stringy and lifts off wanting to follow the nozzle.

Any help would be really appreciated.. I've spent weeks trying to calibrate this machine ( Prusa i3 )

Mick

I use a PVA and water mix to prime my heated glass bed. About 20% PVA dabbed on and left to dry. It looks patchy when wet but dries to a nice, even, frosted look.

PLA sticks really well to this - almost too well - even the repraper stuff which is notoriously difficult on glass.

You'd think it would come off with each print, but in fact it lasts ages between applications. I've tried tapes and this is much easier to apply, and of course a repair only requires a quick dab.

I use a fan directed to just below the nozzle, but I have it switched off for the first four layers, so no relevance to getting the first layer to stick.

Hope this helps.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2013 06:31AM by fac13.

I'm using picture frame glass covered in blue tape, on an aluminum bed.
It works well at 65c however I have to set my bed temp to 80c as the temp sensor only measures the temp at the center of the aluminum bed not the print surface.

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I'm using the blue painters tape with PLA. The parts stick so strong that I've broken some trying to pry them off. Every once in a while when my Z axis home position get a little to high I will get the symptoms you are describing. Make sure that your nozzle is close enough to the bed when homed.

I have printed the Repraper PLA on a bed covered with masking tape .... The bed was NOT heated.

here is an example of print (a long piece of 11-12 cm).

[www.youtube.com]

here is how difficult is to remove the piece from the bed:

[www.youtube.com]

I have made various attempts to print the Repraper PLA (kaepton, heated bed) ... but almost are a failure (except the masking tape which is too good!). Here is a list of my attempts:

[3d-printizer.com]

EDIT: I have also tried the formfutura's pla ... that is impossible to remove by hand from my masking tape (again with no heated bed). I had to use pliers to remove it ... I don't use brim anymore in order to reduce the adhesion ...

mihai

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2013 10:03AM by mihai.

I've found that not all blue painters tapes are created equal. Some stick too well and some don't stick well at all. It seems like some have a non-stick coating. A quick swipe with alcohol seems to remove that coating, and then the PLA sticks quite well to the blue tape, and sometimes too well. Note, this is with a non-heated bed on a Printrbot Simple.

I also have a MendelMax 2.0, which has a heated bed. On that printer I either use clean class at 70C, or I put on a thin coat of 20% PVA (white) glue. Without the glue, the PLA sticks well most of the time, and is really easy to remove once the bed cools below about 40C. With the thinned glue on the bed, it's a little hard to get the parts off even after the bed has cooled down, but the first layer definitely sticks better.

Getting the first layer to stick, as others mentioned, requires the bed height be just right. I've also found I have to reduce the speed of the first layer (I use 70%), and especially the small perimeters (I use the default of 30%).

heat bed to 60C apply watered down PVA glue (while glass is hot) it will dry in seconds

start your print then let cool to around 30C and you should be able to knock the print away (some prints require a nice hard tap)

then repeat i normally go around 3 coats of pva before i clean it off

again to clean heat up the bed to 60C get some vinegar based window cleaner (i use Mr Muscle Window and Glass) (its a green bottle) wipe of the gunk then give another spray and clean with a micro fiber cloth apply more watered down PVA and your ready to go again.

I will note that i mainly use faberdashery PLA and it loves PVA Glue but the cheaper reprapper PLA seems to not stick as good unless i put up the hotend temp.

Personally I found that leveling the bed had the greatest effect on adherence.

I used a dial indicator to level the bed. I highly recommend it.

So the big question for users of porous tapes - what keeps the tape from coming off? the sticky layer on the backside?

Yes the backside of the tape is strong enough to keep the tape in place for quite a few prints. Occasionally a large object that is being stubborn to remove will pull the tape loose.

I use kapton on top of blue tape on glass at 50-60C. You might think this is crazy, but its better than either tape by itself. I can get at least a hundred print hours before I have to touch the bed again. Wipe it with acetone every now and then to get fingerprints off. I could list all the reasons for why this works so well, but if you have both, just try it yourself.

The best surface I have EVER used is PET tape on top of glass. The tape causes PLA to stick like the devil when heated, but come off easily when cool. The tape itself is also far, far more durable and easier to apply than kapton tape. In fact, I'm still using the same sheets now that I applied about 8 months ago. That's how long-lasting they are. Highly recommended. Ditch the blue tape; life's too short.

Used in the right way, blue tape has benefits... namely that it has a very slight spongyness that is forgiving to slight misalignments in the first layer height. The blue tape will compress slightly and allow the filament to flow more easily, preventing backflow and hotend jamming when the nozzle is too close to the bed.

Thx so much for all the replies.. this will help me in my endeavours to attaining a half decent 1st layer hold.

What's been extremely frustrating for me over the past days is my prints look great if I nurse the printer nozzle as it extrudes the first 2-3 layers. Normally layer 1 is a complete mess.. I use tweezers to quickly pull the entire mess away since it just ends up in a birds nest floating about on the end of the nozzle. If I manage to get this removed with any major hick-ups then the printer lays down a half decent layer & off she goes... great.

I'll give pva glue a crack once I get home tonight. 20% diluted in water... note: I tired hair spray yesterday. the first print stuck well but then any further prints did not adhere so well so I'm guessing I need to remove the old spray & coat the glass again from scratch. spraying any aerosol onto the bed can easily create "residual blow off " stray hair spray that covers, motors, belts, pulleys etc... not cool. I am really hesitant to using this method again... I also placed a sheet of A4 papaer between glass bed & printer parts but still I feel this is a very uncontrolled way of attaining a half decent bed contact.

So over the past days I've been brain storming other materials to use as a sticky surface & today I was considering sticky silicon.. the same material you find on the "Mr Sticky" roller. this material can be used over & over again.. it keeps it "stickiness" just wash it off with fesh water & its super sticky again... no need for a heated bed... so I'm going through an evaluation process as I feel there's just gotta be a simpler approach.. a simple process of printing, remove product, wipe with water & go again... sounds simple & effective.

I'll keep you posted how this develops....

regarding blue tape's extra height tolerance or forgiveness... yes the tape does in fact allow for a nozzle that might bear down to hard onto the plate... I have had a few occasions (being a newbie ) where the nozzle is actually touching the plate (glass ) ever so slightly.. even to the extent where I cracked a piece of 3mm glass... so the the tape actually leaves a shallow groove where the nozzle bears down too deeply indicating to me... things are not right & I need to punch the abort job button.

Mickman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's been extremely frustrating for me over the
> past days is my prints look great if I nurse the
> printer nozzle as it extrudes the first 2-3
> layers. Normally layer 1 is a complete mess.. I
> use tweezers to quickly pull the entire mess away
> since it just ends up in a birds nest floating
> about on the end of the nozzle.


Sounds like the nozzle is too close to the bed on the first layer. That, and/or your slicing settings have it extruding too much plastic on the first layer.

Not to sound like a broken record, but once you eventually try PET tape on heated glass, you'll kick yourself wondering why you didn't try it sooner! It just works so well.

I have been using double sided tape. Not the sponge type were used to but one thats like like cellotape but double sided.

It sticks to my unheated bed and the initial sticky surface sticks like crazy but is easy enought to pull off. after a few days it seems there is a coating of PLA on the tape allowing it to if anything stick more.

Try using mentholated spirits instead of water with the PVA, it works so much better. The PVA/metho mix should be very thuin for best results, I found 75% metho to 25% PVA works well or even make it have a higher amount of metho.
Spread it on the heated glass very thinly for best results, it dries transparent almost right away.
Stops warping and will usually pop off the glass when cooled down, if it doesn't come off when cool, place in a bucket of water for a few minutes and it usually falls off.

I seem to be fine printing directly onto glass (with a heatbed), although I do have to make sure it's absolutely clean and grease free (usu. just wipe it with some kind of solvent before each print)

On glass with a heated stage, I found that I needed more and more agressive cleaning to get ABS to stick. What I have heard described as "smooshing" the first layer on had more effect (setting the first layer to 0.25mm but only leaving space for 0.12mm was about right), but even that faded after a while. One of the more startling things was that even after cleaning with acetone, then cellulose thinners, then water and diswasher liquid, then iso-propyl alcohol, a print would still have a shadow of the last print.

At the moment I find that kapton film (Chinese) on 115 degree heated bed works O.K. for ABS -with fresh kapton ever 10prints and acetone cleaning of the kapton before every print. Blue tape is great for PLA, but must be 3M.

Mike

I recently bought a glass for my Solidoodle and printed on it with a layer of hairspray. It worked really well... except there was residual hairspray that got under the glass and my glass is now stuck to the print bed.

Any advice on how to lift the glass off the bed without damage?

Seriously, buy a sheet of PEI, stick it down, and forget about adhesion issues. No prep, no cleaning, no tape lifting off, no ugly lines in your print where the tape boundaries are... Best upgrade I've done to my printer.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.fabricat3d.com.au]

Quote
fac13
I use a PVA and water mix to prime my heated glass bed. About 20% PVA dabbed on and left to dry. It looks patchy when wet but dries to a nice, even, frosted look.

PLA sticks really well to this - almost too well - even the repraper stuff which is notoriously difficult on glass.

You'd think it would come off with each print, but in fact it lasts ages between applications. I've tried tapes and this is much easier to apply, and of course a repair only requires a quick dab.

I use a fan directed to just below the nozzle, but I have it switched off for the first four layers, so no relevance to getting the first layer to stick.

Hope this helps.

This is exactly what I have found to work the best. Glue stick worked good too but this ends up much smoother.

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Newbie with Folgertech 2020 i3.