Hey!
I've been buying 1.75mm ABS for a a year now. I remember buying it shipped from China to France for less than 20€, now it seems that it is 25-30€/kg :O
I tend to buy 4kg per shipment. I've tried to increase the orders to 10-15kg, but the prices are the same, shipping is expensive.

Have you guys noticed that too? or is it just me. I figured the prices would actually go down due to demand.

Cheers

I think the future is to make filament DIY, e.g. with the Lyman Extruder. Granules are something like € 3.-/kg, currently you can get free samples from Looplife Polymers: [reprap.org]

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

the only issue I see so far with DIY at home filament extruders are insconsistent filament diameters

There is more demand now, and several Chinese suppliers are struggling to fulfill the orders they get from distributors. If you have a constant production capacity, and too much orders to fulfill them, you rise the price. The factory still runs at same speed, and you get more money.

DIY filament of course is the future. Just think about recycling your faulty prints and broken objects to new ones.
Not to mension the very low prices for granulate that will not come up just because some freaks like us start to print with it.

I'm quote new to 3D-printing and am just about to build my first own printer, but from day 1 I didn't agree to pay 20-30€/kg for plastic, only because someone heated it up and pressed it through a nozzel.

The more people make their own filament you will see the filemant-prices come down to realistic levels.

I get that DIY is the way to go, but today I need a turn key solution and it seems to be getting more expensive.

I just recently started buying filament again and here I was all super happy about getting decent quality filament on kg spools off of Amazon for 33USD shipped.

isonoob Wrote:
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> the only issue I see so far with DIY at home
> filament extruders are insconsistent filament
> diameters


Well, you'd be wrong. Filastruder gets +/-0.05mm.

no according to them 'Filastruder gets +/-0.05mm.' who is to say it will work that good for someone that has never made feedstock before.

The real problem is the currency exchange rate and the cost of gas. That's just the way it is until someone comes up with a granule extruder.

jamesdanielv Wrote:
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> no according to them 'Filastruder gets +/-0.05mm.'
> who is to say it will work that good for someone
> that has never made feedstock before.



Independently confirmed by dozens of beta testers and users, none of which had ever made feedstock before...

i would be more worried about the polymer being extruded in these filabots breaking down too much rather than about the diameter,

if anything filament really needs to be eliminated from the whole process and we should be printing direct from granule or looking towards epoxy/cheap adhesive based pastes (especially ones that can be diy'd)

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thejollygrimreaper Wrote:
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> i would be more worried about the polymer being
> extruded in these filabots breaking down too much
> rather than about the diameter,

Why?

Industrial extruders subject the polymer to FAR more shear.

Time in the melt zone is about the same for both.

greenman100 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thejollygrimreaper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i would be more worried about the polymer being
> > extruded in these filabots breaking down too
> much
> > rather than about the diameter,
>
> Why?
>
> Industrial extruders subject the polymer to FAR
> more shear.
>
> Time in the melt zone is about the same for both.

there's a lot of factors to consider before comparing filabots to industrial extruders, industrial extruders are built from components which are designed for the task with very careful temperature control targetted at degrading the filament as little as possible,

either way filament will one day be superceeded by a paste extruder and diy materials,

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@thejollygrimreaper What do you think those paste extruded 'diy materials' will be? I'd like to know where to concentrate my research

grumpenstein Wrote:
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> @thejollygrimreaper What do you think those paste
> extruded 'diy materials' will be? I'd like to know
> where to concentrate my research

i think we're going to be talking something with a fine ceramic powder in it, probably with an epoxy resin of some kind or some kind of organic glue

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Well, this guy (Dirk van der Kooij) made his own printing material directly from grinding up plastic parts of old fridges:
[youtu.be]

He doesn't make filament first, he just turns it into a molten stream directly. I think it's beautiful.

Found out why it is going up :/
[forums.reprap.org]

tleneel Wrote:
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> Found out why it is going up :/
> [forums.reprap.org]

Bah. Bullshit.

Quote
RepRapper
Our merchant challenged us lots of times that why we sell products much cheaper than theirs.

What shall we think about a TRADING company, telling us this kind of bullshit?

And since when does one reseller or manufacturer declare the price for filament worldwide?

The filament manufacturers are selling 2$/lb plastic with a 1500% profit margin! For just melting it, and form it to filament (a quite simple process)?

I break out in spots, only thinking about that.

I hope that more and more people will use their homemade filament to stop these insane prices.

Quote
RobertKuhlmann
The filament manufacturers are selling 2$/lb plastic with a 1500% profit margin! For just melting it, and form it to filament (a quite simple process)?

Haha, have you ever even tried extruding filament? It's a simple process to get a string of plastic, but it's pretty darned difficult to get a string of plastic that is accurate +-.05 mm over hundreds of meters!

If it was so simple, it would be cheap. It's not simple, it requires specialized machinery, so they can make it expensive.

PomeroyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
RobertKuhlmann
> The filament manufacturers are selling 2$/lb
> plastic with a 1500% profit margin! For just
> melting it, and form it to filament (a quite
> simple process)?
>

>
> Haha, have you ever even tried extruding filament?
> It's a simple process to get a string of plastic,
> but it's pretty darned difficult to get a string
> of plastic that is accurate +-.05 mm over hundreds
> of meters!
>
> If it was so simple, it would be cheap. It's not
> simple, it requires specialized machinery, so they
> can make it expensive.

Yes it is that simple. You obviously never heard of ExtrusionBot or Filastruder, didn't you?

Both are "specialized machinery". So: How many kilograms of filament must a $525-ExtrusionBot fabricate to earn it's own price, assuming $30/kg filament? Correct, 17,5kg. And a $239-filastruder earns it's costs with just 8kg.

BTW: The tolerance of ExtrusionBot was measured at 0.05mm.

Still laughing?

I don't know which side of the "creating filament is easy/difficult" debate is right. But if RobertKuhlmann has the right of it, it seems there would be a market opportunity here, ripe for the plucking. Are there extrusion-bot-enabled ebay sellers offering custom filament worth taking a chance on?

Regardless, the 1500% number is ignoring capital and labor costs, which certainly aren't nothing. And that unease I feel when I think about buying homemade filament at online auction has to be worth something. What the current filament sellers seem to have is the ability to mass produce consistently (whatever the quality) and build a brand. I wonder if concentrating on the cost of the plastic and ignoring all else might be the backwards way to think about the business problem. Ignore the cost of plastic, as it's everything else that has the real cost.

+1 the the observations that plastic-->filament-->3D printed parts is a process with one too many steps in it.

ExtrusionBot hasn't shipped yet, Filastruder has shipped over 500 units. Check out some of the people using it:

[filastruder.com]

+/-0.05mm is no problem. Some users report +/-0.03.


Karmavore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know which side of the "creating filament
> is easy/difficult" debate is right. But if
> RobertKuhlmann has the right of it, it seems there
> would be a market opportunity here, ripe for the
> plucking. Are there extrusion-bot-enabled ebay
> sellers offering custom filament worth taking a
> chance on?
>
> Regardless, the 1500% number is ignoring capital
> and labor costs, which certainly aren't nothing.
> And that unease I feel when I think about buying
> homemade filament at online auction has to be
> worth something. What the current filament sellers
> seem to have is the ability to mass produce
> consistently (whatever the quality) and build a
> brand. I wonder if concentrating on the cost of
> the plastic and ignoring all else might be the
> backwards way to think about the business problem.
> Ignore the cost of plastic, as it's everything
> else that has the real cost.
>
> +1 the the observations that
> plastic-->filament-->3D printed parts is a process
> with one too many steps in it.

greenman100 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ExtrusionBot hasn't shipped yet, Filastruder has
> shipped over 500 units. Check out some of the
> people using it:
>
> [filastruder.com]
>
> +/-0.05mm is no problem. Some users report
> +/-0.03.

500 units is nothing, considering how many RepRaps and similar printers are out there. It'll take a lot more than that to impact the price of commercial filament.

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Help improve the RepRap wiki! Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing. Anyone can edit the wiki!

Cool stuff! Is anyone selling their filastuder-created filament? I'd buy some, if only to see if I'd like to buy my own filastruder!

I'm not talking about impacting prices, I'm saying it is possible to produce filament at home.

NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> greenman100 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ExtrusionBot hasn't shipped yet, Filastruder
> has
> > shipped over 500 units. Check out some of the
> > people using it:
> >
> > [filastruder.com]
> >
> > +/-0.05mm is no problem. Some users report
> > +/-0.03.
>
> 500 units is nothing, considering how many RepRaps
> and similar printers are out there. It'll take a
> lot more than that to impact the price of
> commercial filament.

Karmavore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cool stuff! Is anyone selling their
> filastuder-created filament? I'd buy some, if only
> to see if I'd like to buy my own filastruder!


If you make a post over on Soliforum, I'm sure you'd have lots of takers. I have some I'd sell you but I'll be on travel the next week or so.

NewPerfection Wrote:
>
> 500 units is nothing, considering how many RepRaps
> and similar printers are out there. It'll take a
> lot more than that to impact the price of
> commercial filament.


Do you of any numbers out there regarding how many RepRaps/home printers are in the wild? I'm assuming there's some fascinating survey data that I've missed but I would love to know.

grumpenstein Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you of any numbers out there regarding how many
> RepRaps/home printers are in the wild? I'm
> assuming there's some fascinating survey data that
> I've missed but I would love to know.

No exact numbers. See [forums.reprap.org] I'd guess at least 200,000 printers in the wild, if not twice that many.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2013 01:34PM by NewPerfection.

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Help improve the RepRap wiki! Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing. Anyone can edit the wiki!

NewPerfection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No exact numbers. See
> [forums.reprap.org]
> I'd guess at least 200,000 printers in the wild,
> if not twice that many.


Thanks, fascinating...I would easily see 10 or 20 percent of my art/design school compatriots wanting a RepRap 5 years ago if the tech was where it is right now. Born too soon...