(Noob) Which hot end to buy ??

Hi ,

I'm really new to reprap and 3d printing in general, but very keen to learn. I would like to construct a mendel90 later in the year and I am currently looking at sources for parts. I am a bit stuck on hot ends, I'm not sure weather to make my own ( using that nickel chromium wire ) or to buy one , am I right in assuming that this is the most critical piece ?

Also is there much difference in extruders , I think the general view is to go with a wade extruder ?


Any help would be greatly appreciated

thank you so much

Jeremy


(Also I'd like to keep my costs as low as possible I am a student)

E3D hotend seems to be the way to go right now

Also had a look at the Bowden extruder on the wiki , it sound pretty good, would there be any advantages with this on a mendel90 and is the hysteresis a major problem ?

Actually there seem to be some threads discussing issues associated E3D hit ends. If I were to buy a hot end right now, I'd opt for a j-head. I owe two and have had zero problems with them.

492183 the E3D looks like a bit of a bulkier version of the pico I saw on YouTube before ( I hasn't come out yet though )

Jbernadis , with the j-head I has big resister in the end to heat it up but then you just attach your thermistor to the side . I was reading somewhere before , may have been on the web or in the forum cant find it in history , that the main problem is the heat transfer between the hot end and cold end , what's your experience with heat transfer ? What's the hot end with two resistors ( symmetrical ) - is that any better ?

where about did you guys get your hot ends , I'm in Australia

thanks so much for the quick replies - wasn't expecting that

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2013 10:55AM by Jerms.a320.

492183 ,

I had another look at the E3D and I think I'd be really cool the cooling fins with the fan look great ( also the fact that its designed for a Bowden setup is neat) .

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2013 11:26AM by Jerms.a320.

Yeah jbernardis I found a guy, Jinx, on the 'E3D now finally shipping' thread about who installed the hot end then it got clogged after a little use. the fact that is requires the fan concerns me a bit , I think I might go with a j-head like you said, the j-head mark V is the hot end in nopheads mendel90 kit its only 50 AUD on ebay would that be alright ?

thanks

I've owned jhead and makergear and both are good but I prefer how rock solid the jhead operation is.

ive only tried budaschnozzle 1.2 and budaschnozzle 2.0, the 2.0 is working great for me, can't make a comment about the other hot ends though.

The thermistor on the jhead is installed into a small hole for that purpose. It is held in place with kaptan tape.

The only issue I've heard of with the jhead is that convection heat can rise along the thermal break, and cause specifically PLA to jam. I never had this happen to me even without a cooling strategy. I have since installed a 25 mm always-on fan on the x carriage aimed at the top of the hot end. It is not a powerful fan, but it is enough to break up the convection. I have never had an issue.

@ isonoob , the budashnoozzle looks good but is $95 without postage to Australia , I can get the j-head mk V for 65, also on the wiki it says not to go over 240 degrees C - isn't that ABS temp - that concerns me a bit . Have you ever had any problems with conduction ( or convection ) to your extruder ?

Also Coherent have you had any heat transfer problems with the j-head , do you have a fan on yours ?


thanks so much guys

I've got an AO-100 printer with a Budaschnozzle 1.1 hot end. That hot end has been tweaked to print ABS and it does so without a hitch (provided you don't make some mistakes like me*). It was shipped with ABS filament and Lulzbot has only recently started selling PLA. Yes you should not exceed 240ºC I believe because it could melt the PEEK insulator inside, but I'm pretty sure it's the same with the J-head since its whole body is made of PEEK. Lulzbot recommends printing ABS at 230º and that's what I've been doing. AFAIK neither the Buda nor the J-head can print higher temp plastics such as Taulmann nylon. That's why the all-metal hot ends are all the craze right now.

From what I've seen, many people are having heat creep problems with PLA, which to me means installing a fan to cool the upper section of the hot end is only a logical course of action.

I've been reading the forum for a few months now, and it is in no way based on facts, but I get the feeling there are many more J-heads out there than there are Budaschnozzles. Since with the Buda you're likely to get hammered with shipping (and possibly customs fees) I think you wouldn't make a mistake with the J-head. I wouldn't go with the Chinese clones on eBay though, they take liberties with the design. Look at this blog post: [jheadnozzle.blogspot.com]

*I've found that the Buda does not like sitting idle for extended periods of time at extrusion temperature. I was always heating up the bed and the hot end at the same time. But since the bed takes a lot more time to heat up, the hot end would reach 230º and stay there for more than 10 minutes before I would launch the print. At some point the hot end started having jams. I removed the nozzle and let it soak in acetone overnight. After that I was cautious not to start heating the hot end before the bed had almost reached its temperature, and starting the print as soon as the hot end reached its temp. I haven't had trouble since.

Cool stuff , thanks Normand.

I had no idea the j-head body was made of PEEK , I assumed it was metal! Seeing that I'm a complete noob would it be better to get an all metal hot head ( I'm assuming its very difficult to damage those ) ?
are nylon prints any good ?


thanks so much

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Jerms.a320
I had no idea the j-head body was made of PEEK , I assumed it was metal!

I thought too, until I found otherwise on the wiki. See [reprap.org]

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Jerms.a320
Seeing that I'm a complete noob would it be better to get an all metal hot head ( I'm assuming its very difficult to damage those ) ?

Well first of all I still consider myself a complete noob as well, second I haven't even built my printer, it came fully assembled and calibrated. So please take what I say with a grain of salt. But my feeling is that the all-metal hotends are still a "novelty". Meaning they are not widespread yet, and from what I have read (granted I do not read all the posts here) they are still in the development stage, while some are further along than others. If I were to construct a kit right now, as a noob I would prefer to go with a proven design, and if budget was an issue the J-Head would certainly be among my top choices. It's on the fifth iteration now (mark V). And BTW the Mendel90 kit from nophead (the printer's designer) comes with a J-Head Mk. V-B.

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Jerms.a320
are nylon prints any good ?

As I said I don't think the J-Head can print nylon due to it requiring a temperature that would damage the PEEK.

Nylon has interesting characteristics that PLA and ABS don't have, but it's a lot more expensive, and it seems to be very difficult to have it stick to the bed. It does not mean you can't print with "exotic" materials with a J-Head, for example you can probably print LAYWOO-D3 (made of 40% recycled wood fiber).

HTH,

Normand

Cool stuff thanks Normand ,

I think I will start with the mk V j-head , I can always get another hot end later for nylon . the wood fiber plastic sounds heaps cool !
I was reading on the forum the other day about bad j-heads on ebay do you think this one would be alright its from the UK

thanks heaps

( what does hth stand for ? )

I've had good results with the j-head, in fact they seem pretty much bomb-proof. My first one I made a tactical error and wired the thermistor to the connector for extruder 2 and the heater to connector 1, with the consequence that when I started it up, the temperature rose and rose as my controller turned of the heater on extruder 2 leaving extruder 1 to get as hot as it wanted. End result: pushed my j-head to well over 300 degrees which did cause it to melt the peek. However, the result was a bit of leakage but actually, it continued to work pretty well until I could get a new one.

I've also tried the squeezewear nozzle (1.75 nozzle) recently and it looked promising but jammed solid on its very first print, I plan to try it again but i'll probably get another j-head.

Jerms.a320 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was reading on the forum the other day about bad
> j-heads on ebay do you think
> this one would be alright
> its from the UK
>
> thanks heaps

That one looks fine. Just make sure you don't get a poorly made Chinese clone. You can also order direct from the creator at [hotends.com] , though it will cost you a little bit more.

---

Help improve the RepRap wiki! Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing. Anyone can edit the wiki!

Quote
Jerms.a320
the wood fiber plastic sounds heaps cool !

Oh yeah it does. Its printable temperature has a pretty wide range and it changes color depending on heat. So if you play with the temperature from layer to layer you can mimick tree rings. See [www.thingiverse.com]

It's been around for a year now so I guess for some RepRapers it's already old news!

Quote
Jerms.a320
( what does hth stand for ? )

Hope this helps!

@ Megaweasel That's good to know , speaking of nozzles is that complicated ?

- but the squeezewear nozzle is actually a hot end isn't it ?


@ Newperfection thanks for checking that out , buying directly from hotends is actually $2 cheaper , postage will probably be quicker from the USA

@ Normand. I had a look a some other videos , its so cool . Could you program the temperature to isolate slightly to get the rings , Its like $100 per kg in Australia though which is a bit annoying ( but still that's not much more expensive than the other plastics


thanks so much guys

hi,

Quote
jerms.
Jinx, on the 'E3D now finally shipping' thread about who installed the hot end then it got clogged after a little use. the fact that is requires the fan concerns me a bit

the issue i had with the "E3D hotend" was I didn't allow it to cool down before switching off. the fan, which allowed the filament to swell,

jerms. you cant go wrong with it get the .25 nozzle for fine prints. as for the fan, if you use an ATX PSU, use a molex con. and forget about it ,"just allow it to cool before switching of the PSU.

The J head Mk V works faultless using PLA , option to go 3/1.75 mm inner tube. out of the two, just for PLA I get the J-head on price.want to explore different filament then its the E3D .

see here for the E3D

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2013 12:20PM by jinx.

Thanks heaps Jinx for that clarification .

so when this happened did it damage the hot end in any way?

If you didn't leave the fan on for cool down could it melt the plastic that the hot end attaches to?

Now I'm not too sure whether to get the e3d or the j-head ? ( id like to experiment with other filaments ) the cost between the hot heads including postage is only $17 so I might just get the e3d

Hello,
just search for issues with the J-Head and you will see there are several people having issues. So to get no problems with a J-Head it seems to be advisable to by from hotend.com and install a fan to cool the cold end. At least if you print ABS.
For the all metall hotends, get a 3mm hotend and use a fan. You won't break by usage. The only reason to break are mechanical force or faulty thermistor. (thermistor mounting).
Even if it jams you can easily get it cleaned up.
Look for those funny pictures of J-Heads (likely china (even if sold from different countries) where the noozle came off the Peek....
Nophead sells original J-Heads as far as I know.
Good all Metal designs are: E3D, reprap-fab.org V3, Excalibur (see Wiki).
They won't have any issues with 3mm filament, for 1.75 PLA this depends on usage and material. ABS seems to have no issues at all. Nylon, PS etc. should also work fine and temperature is only limited by the thermistor. (Most are only 300C).

For J-Head get an original and install a fan, that sould work best. For a noob I really would recommend the reprap-fab.org one, which is hard to get even in germany, so likely no real alternative for australia....

cu

Michael

@jerms - the squeezewear hot-end is the complete assembly with the nozzle - as typically are the j-heads.

Hey Jinx just noticed the link to your YouTube channel . That mask looks heaps cool ( what did you design it in ) , and also how did you colour the filament ?

also what hot-end are you using in this video?

hi,

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so when this happened did it damage the hot end in any way?

near impossible to damage the E3D " have to go out your way". by not allowing it cool down before turning the printer can be a real ball ache to remove the filament due to swelling created.

Quote

If you didn't leave the fan on for cool down could it melt the plastic that the hot end attaches to?

I use the gregs reloaded extruder I've been using PLA at the moment printing at 178c
I be very surprised if the heat that crept up that far to melt it, even at higher temps I don't believe it would melt it , may soften it causing the hotend to become lose.

the mask is on thingiverse thanks reminding me to give alan credit for it. the mixing of the colours was by pausing the print raising the extruder and swapping filaments. lowering extruder and resuming the E3D makes this child's play
"touch wood " never had any problems making changes.

With that method of simply changing the filament do you end up with noticeable joints from where you have raised and lowered the print head ?

having it soften would damage it though wouldn't ?

The is no disadvantage using the Greg's reloaded wade extruder is there? those gears look so much cooler !


thanks so much Jinx

hi,

Quote

With that method of simply changing the filament do you end up with noticeable joints from where you have raised and lowered the print head ?

no so far been seamless transition, just push in the filament in until you see a little fila come out the nozzle, tighten the idler an lower,
I do try to make changes while doing the infill,

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The is no disadvantage using the Greg's reloaded wade extruder is there? those gears look so much cooler !

I've not noticed any, and the way the idler is bolted makes it easy to change filaments, works really good,and paired with hobbed bolt been have great result

gotta get the fan on the E3D, So you need to ask this : will it fit under my X carriage.

thanks Jinx,

with the E3D fan , aren't all x-carriages the same ? doesn't the plastic housing just attach onto the bottom of the extruder . also do you have another fan going onto the print bed ?