Why are the printed parts kits not selling these days?

I agree this 'FAD' is dieing out and if they can't, or will not, fix the forums (the second place inquiring minds would come) to freaking work right what makes you think they have the capacity, or willingness, to fix the Wiki? People have been asking for the wiki to be fixed for a long time now and it has fallen on deaf ears.

When Stage 1 is crap and stage 2 is not much better than a 1980's BBS what do you expect but people to just give up?

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Quote
MeMadMax
Fix the wiki, that's what they are seeing first.

Quote
Dark Alchemist
People have been asking for the wiki to be fixed for a long time now and it has fallen on deaf ears.

Two pairs of these deaf ears are the two which I cited here, right? Let's see:

[reprap.org] : "User account "MeMadMax" is not registered."
[reprap.org] : 7 edits total, last one in December 2012.

I think these two links speak for them selfs.

---

Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Traumflug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
MeMadMax
Fix the wiki, that's what they are
> seeing first.

>
>

Quote
Dark Alchemist
People have been asking
> for the wiki to be fixed for a long time now and
> it has fallen on deaf ears.

>
> Two pairs of these deaf ears are the two which I
> cited here, right? Let's see:
>
> [reprap.org] : "User
> account "MeMadMax" is not registered."
> [reprap.org]
> Alchemist : 7 edits total, last one in December
> 2012.
>
> I think these two links speak for them selfs.

I told you [BLEEP] before I am not going to screw around with the Wiki since I have updated other Wikis before and always some [BLEEP] will come behind me and put incorrect information PLUS I do not own a 3d printer so I do not have enough knowledge to mess with it so I know it is better to leave it alone for someone who does know this stuff better than I do.

My beef is mainly with this effed up forum more than the Wiki but I do agree people with printers who know what they are doing need to go update the Wiki.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 05:53AM by Dark Alchemist.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Could you choose your words a little more carefully DA ? We're an all age forum.

Please edit your post above. I'm pretty sure you know words which will express the same level of frustration you seem to experience without being rude.

Edit : ah, already done.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 05:12AM by DeuxVis.

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

DeuxVis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you choose your words a little more
> carefully DA ? We're an all age forum.
>
> Please edit your post above. I'm pretty sure you
> know words which will express the same level of
> frustration you seem to experience without being
> rude.
>
> Edit : ah, already done.

Sorry about that but I love how easily something is modded but the heart of the problem with this forum has been let go. I see you are the Admin so could you explain the reasoning behind not getting this forum into the 21st century? You already have a quote type system but you never fully implemented it so we have a Usenet like quote system which is for the birds.

I do not know what this forum is ran on but I am surprised you didn't choose something that people are used to and has the proper tools that people have become accustomed to.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Why?

Because most people aren’t technically minded and would rather buy a complete calibrated and working machine. Ie they want an appliance

Sadly curiosity and innovation and a thirst for knowledge is still discouraged while rampant thoughtless consumer like behaviour is encouraged.


Their loss in my view.

Quote

could you explain the reasoning behind not getting this forum into the 21st century?

The simple reason is: nobody volunteered. In an open community there's zero point in pointing fingers to others, you can have an account within an hour if you were really interested in this. Your opinion counts only as much as you contribute yourself.

---

Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Traumflug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote

could you explain the reasoning behind not
> getting this forum into the 21st century?

>
> The simple reason is: nobody volunteered. In an
> open community there's zero point in pointing
> fingers to others, you can have an account within
> an hour if you were really interested in this.
> Your opinion counts only as much as you contribute
> yourself.


How? I am used to phpBB and a couple of others I only twiddled with but there has to be something you can set (and i did submit this request around the time I first joined up but nothing happened) to change this Usenet quoting to the proper quoting. You can use the quote tags and it works but you hit quote and it reverts to the 30 year old style of quoting.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Heck, I'll fix the i3 wiki if I'm allowed.

Traumflug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
MeMadMax
Fix the wiki, that's what they are
> seeing first.

>
>

Quote
Dark Alchemist
People have been asking
> for the wiki to be fixed for a long time now and
> it has fallen on deaf ears.

>
> Two pairs of these deaf ears are the two which I
> cited here, right? Let's see:
>
> [reprap.org] : "User
> account "MeMadMax" is not registered."
> [reprap.org]


> Alchemist : 7 edits total, last one in December
> 2012.
>
> I think these two links speak for them selfs.

I've been here for much longer than that. I just didn't get around to making a account until I hit a brick wall and needed help.

Projects live and die by documentation. This includes forums, tutorials and wikis. If reprap is to grow then it needs to really update how it presents itself ASAP. There seems to be plenty of people willing to commit to this so I don't understand why it hasn't happened yet.

This thread seems to have developed two heads:

• Why are printed parts kits not selling these days
• Why is the forum so unusable

Addressing the first one, I think it is for many reasons: a loss of the early enthusiasm; non printed parts being available; new designs with mostly non-printable parts; an invisible army of people making for friends - these and other reasons. I think that the main part is enthusiasm driven though and you can see that it is going through a bit of a trough at the moment - blogs not updated for several months, software not updated for several months and people agonising over whether they should be making money and how to protect their intellectual product. Hopefully there will be a few breakthroughs which will bring the enthusiasm up again before it declines to a few crusty old individuals doing their thing - I am still enjoying it though and hope to build a few more printers and print many more cool bits before succumbing either to the couch or crusty old man hood.

As to the unusability of the forum, I notice that photos and other graphics now appear in the entry without jumping through hoops. I didn't notice anybody saying thank you to the people who run the forum, keeping their enthusiasm up is also important.

Mike

p.s. a bulletted list would be better with bullets instead of [*]

1) Printed Parts.

Kits are relatively cheap compared to the hassle.
Set of printed parts = £50
Motors
Electronics
Rods
Hotends
Extruder
Bed
Etc etc.

Or kit

£400 - £500

My time is worth more than the £100 I could save. So I bought a kit.


2) The other head.

Eh???? It all works doesn't it ?
I really don't understand the beef. It's a forum, where we post threads and replies.
Are there really people complaining about the way quotes are denoted ?
That's "get a life" territory that is. I wish I had time to worry about / complain about how quotes are denoted !

DaveS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Printed Parts.
>
> Kits are relatively cheap compared to the hassle.
>
> Set of printed parts = £50
> Motors
> Electronics
> Rods
> Hotends
> Extruder
> Bed
> Etc etc.
>
> Or kit
>
> £400 - £500
>
> My time is worth more than the £100 I could save.
> So I bought a kit.
>
>
> 2) The other head.
>
> Eh???? It all works doesn't it ?
> I really don't understand the beef. It's a forum,
> where we post threads and replies.
> Are there really people complaining about the way
> quotes are denoted ?
> That's "get a life" territory that is. I wish I
> had time to worry about / complain about how
> quotes are denoted !

See, you have an apathetic mentality. It all boils down to a refined product which the Wiki is the first they see and this forum is the second they see, but you stay in your garage with your head in the sand while everything crumbles down around you. I expect no less from an arrogant person who over values their time. Yes, you are arrogant for thinking your time is so valuable you would waste 100 pounds because you are not all that important in the big scheme of things. I suspect you are using that as an escapism because you were really too afraid. Too afraid you didn't have it to make it all work so you took the lazy way out and bought a kit.

So, you get a life because this hobby is filled to the brim with your lousy types and it is your apathetic, and arrogant, attitude to just let everything stay the same if it simply works that has hurt this hobby. We don't need you but we have you now to figure out how to make you no longer matter and push you off to the side so the hobby can grow strong again.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Hmm, I prefer to think that DaveS had peppered his entry with smilies - which didn't come out in submitted version.

by the way, as your sig is:

Quote
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I think you may quite like the story Looking for Jennifer Cartwright on Kindle books. It begins "You are a Springy280 flybot, freshly printed out on a seemingly random desktop fabricator ...."

Mike

My time is valuable. Buying a kit with excellent support is cheaper than paying for shipping for parts from all over and spending my time finding a lot of construction details. I would prefer to have printed parts from someone who has a good reputation rather than take my chances.
My Mendel90 kit came with everything needed and was excellent value.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 04:55PM by Ralph Hilton.

leadinglights Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hmm, I prefer to think that DaveS had peppered his
> entry with smilies - which didn't come out in
> submitted version.
>
> by the way, as your sig is:
>

Quote
I await Skynet and my last vision will be
> of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is
> destroying the human race.
>
>

I think you may quite like the story
> Looking for Jennifer Cartwright on Kindle
> books. It begins "You are a Springy280 flybot,
> freshly printed out on a seemingly random desktop
> fabricator ...."
>
> Mike

Hmmm, very interesting.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Ralph Hilton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My time is valuable. Buying a kit is cheaper than
> paying for shipping for parts from all over. I
> would prefer to have printed parts from someone
> who has a good reputation rather than take my
> chances.
> My Mendel90 kit came with everything needed and
> was excellent value.

No man's time is valuable and anyone who thinks it is has an over active ego of self worth. I understand why you went to a one stop shopping place for your kit but the loss of the hacker mentality is what it all boils down to. The pioneer spirit is lost on the current generations and the answer, regardless what it is about, is that their time is valuable. Hog sweat as that is just being pretentious and egotistical to the Nth degree. How much will your time be worth when the Zombie Apocalypse (the world economic collapse that is with 10 years) happens? Not worth anything.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

I shall not further feed the troll. Sorry.

Ralph Hilton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I shall not further feed the troll. Sorry.

Your choice, and I am no troll I just am telling you are not worth as much as you think you are but you will see if you live long enough. You will reflect and say just how much of a fool you were for thinking so highly of yourself.

Your response is unnecessary and not wanted since anything you would say would just prove how arrogant and egotistical you are and those this hobby could do without.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ralph Hilton Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I shall not further feed the troll. Sorry.
>
> Your choice, and I am no troll I just am telling
> you are not worth as much as you think you are but
> you will see if you live long enough. You will
> reflect and say just how much of a fool you were
> for thinking so highly of yourself.
>
> Your response is unnecessary and not wanted since
> anything you would say would just prove how
> arrogant and egotistical you are and those this
> hobby could do without.

Why so hostile?? Not the first time, either.

Robust debate is one thing, but you always immediately resort to personal attacks. Never mind the quoting, "this hobby" would be better without you spewing bile all over the place.

bobc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dark Alchemist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ralph Hilton Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I shall not further feed the troll. Sorry.
> >
> > Your choice, and I am no troll I just am
> telling
> > you are not worth as much as you think you are
> but
> > you will see if you live long enough. You will
> > reflect and say just how much of a fool you
> were
> > for thinking so highly of yourself.
> >
> > Your response is unnecessary and not wanted
> since
> > anything you would say would just prove how
> > arrogant and egotistical you are and those this
> > hobby could do without.
>
> Why so hostile?? Not the first time, either.
>
> Robust debate is one thing, but you always
> immediately resort to personal attacks. Never mind
> the quoting, "this hobby" would be better without
> you spewing bile all over the place.

Because there are certain types that I despise and his type is one of them. Egotistical people rile me and when I see them I will call them on it. My time is valuable is just a cop out.

People who are the types who simply go along to get along are the other types that just need to be eradicated off the planet. "Oh, it works and that is all that matters" is just a stupid thing for anyone to say especially in this field.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 06:11PM by Dark Alchemist.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Quote
Dark Alchemist
Off the subject but this forum still sucks and no suggestions that would improve upon it has been implemented. Who in the hell is the sys admin for this of a forum that doesn't even have a proper quote system fully implemented (it does have the quote system like a real forum but the admin died, I think, and never implemented it fully)?

You mean like I just did ?

I agree it's some hassle to use it. I assume the forum engine is very limited. I'm puzzled as to why "Phorum" was chosen. I'd never heard of it before joining here. It's very poor compared to the ubiquitous phpBB... (another peeve: those multiple email notifications for the same topic clogging up my inbox are annoying as hell)

@Dark Alchemist (and all)

I just meant my time is valuable to me !

Sorry if it came across as arrogant, condescending or anything else, it certainly wasn't meant to.

My time is valuable to me, I have quite a balanced view about my place in this world, and I'm certainly aware of how long I'll live, that's what makes my time so valuable to me.
This isn't a dress rehearsal you know. I am lucky enough (and I do mean luck, for that's what it is,get out there and you will realise just how lucky you are if you have the means to even type on this forum) to be able to swap the hours it would take me researching the parts for £100. That's probably less than the minimum wage if you add it up ! That's not £100 wasted by the way (as you state), it depends what you do with the hours you saved.

By the way, you really shouldn't launch diatribes against people you know nothing about, if you met me in real life I am sure you wouldn't do it.
You have no idea what I do, how altruistic I am, or even who I am, and if I really was egotistical I would explain here.
I type this last bit for your benefit, not mine, not to "big myself up", but to point out your behaviour is inappropriate.

Now... Whats wrong with the forum ? We've been able to have a reasonable (sort of) debate on here, very easily in this thread, posting quotes etc.
I am being serious.. what's wrong with it ?

anyway..

I read the poem below many years ago, I really like it, I go back to it a lot!

Sometimes when you're feeling important
Sometimes when your ego's in bloom
Sometimes when you think that you are
The best qualified man in the room

Sometimes when you think that your absense
Would leave an unfillable hole
Just follow these simple instructions
And see how they humble your soul

Take a bucket and fill it with water
Put your hand in it up to your wrist
Then take it back out and the hole that remains
Is the measure of how you'll be missed

Now you can splash as much as you want to
You can stir up the water for sure
Then stop and you see in a moment
That the water's the same as before

Now the moral to this is quite simple
You must do the best that you can
But you'll always be wise to remember
There is no indispensible man

DaveS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @Dark Alchemist (and all)
>
> I just meant my time is valuable to me !
>
> Sorry if it came across as arrogant, condescending
> or anything else, it certainly wasn't meant to.
>
> My time is valuable to me, I have quite a balanced
> view about my place in this world, and I'm
> certainly aware of how long I'll live, that's what
> makes my time so valuable to me.
> This isn't a dress rehearsal you know. I am lucky
> enough (and I do mean luck, for that's what it
> is,get out there and you will realise just how
> lucky you are if you have the means to even type
> on this forum) to be able to swap the hours it
> would take me researching the parts for £100.
> That's probably less than the minimum wage if you
> add it up ! That's not £100 wasted by the way (as
> you state), it depends what you do with the hours
> you saved.
>
> By the way, you really shouldn't launch diatribes
> against people you know nothing about, if you met
> me in real life I am sure you wouldn't do it.
> You have no idea what I do, how altruistic I am,
> or even who I am, and if I really was egotistical
> I would explain here.
> I type this last bit for your benefit, not mine,
> not to "big myself up", but to point out your
> behaviour is inappropriate.
>
> Now... Whats wrong with the forum ? We've been
> able to have a reasonable (sort of) debate on
> here, very easily in this thread, posting quotes
> etc.
> I am being serious.. what's wrong with it ?
>
> anyway..
>
> I read the poem below many years ago, I really
> like it, I go back to it a lot!
>
> Sometimes when you're feeling important
> Sometimes when your ego's in bloom
> Sometimes when you think that you are
> The best qualified man in the room
>
> Sometimes when you think that your absense
> Would leave an unfillable hole
> Just follow these simple instructions
> And see how they humble your soul
>
> Take a bucket and fill it with water
> Put your hand in it up to your wrist
> Then take it back out and the hole that remains
> Is the measure of how you'll be missed
>
> Now you can splash as much as you want to
> You can stir up the water for sure
> Then stop and you see in a moment
> That the water's the same as before
>
> Now the moral to this is quite simple
> You must do the best that you can
> But you'll always be wise to remember
> There is no indispensible man

That verses this

Quote
DaveS
@Dark Alchemist (and all)

I just meant my time is valuable to me !

Sorry if it came across as arrogant, condescending or anything else, it certainly wasn't meant to.

My time is valuable to me, I have quite a balanced view about my place in this world, and I'm certainly aware of how long I'll live, that's what makes my time so valuable to me.
This isn't a dress rehearsal you know. I am lucky enough (and I do mean luck, for that's what it is,get out there and you will realise just how lucky you are if you have the means to even type on this forum) to be able to swap the hours it would take me researching the parts for £100. That's probably less than the minimum wage if you add it up ! That's not £100 wasted by the way (as you state), it depends what you do with the hours you saved.

By the way, you really shouldn't launch diatribes against people you know nothing about, if you met me in real life I am sure you wouldn't do it.
You have no idea what I do, how altruistic I am, or even who I am, and if I really was egotistical I would explain here.
I type this last bit for your benefit, not mine, not to "big myself up", but to point out your behaviour is inappropriate.

Now... Whats wrong with the forum ? We've been able to have a reasonable (sort of) debate on here, very easily in this thread, posting quotes etc.
I am being serious.. what's wrong with it ?

anyway..

I read the poem below many years ago, I really like it, I go back to it a lot!

Sometimes when you're feeling important
Sometimes when your ego's in bloom
Sometimes when you think that you are
The best qualified man in the room

Sometimes when you think that your absense
Would leave an unfillable hole
Just follow these simple instructions
And see how they humble your soul

Take a bucket and fill it with water
Put your hand in it up to your wrist
Then take it back out and the hole that remains
Is the measure of how you'll be missed

Now you can splash as much as you want to
You can stir up the water for sure
Then stop and you see in a moment
That the water's the same as before

Now the moral to this is quite simple
You must do the best that you can
But you'll always be wise to remember
There is no indispensible man

Even with a proper quote system this Phorum is rubbish and look above your response to see others feel as I do. They really should get a proper forum software and run on it. Pay for IPB or get phpBB as both are way more professional than this is and have a lot of plugins/addons for the Admin/Moderators to use than Phorum does.

Now as far as your time being valuable it is not valuable it is precious and there is a difference.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Dark Alchemist Wrote:

>
> No man's time is valuable and anyone who thinks it
> is has an over active ego of self worth. I
> understand why you went to a one stop shopping
> place for your kit but the loss of the hacker
> mentality is what it all boils down to. The
> pioneer spirit is lost on the current generations
> and the answer, regardless what it is about, is
> that their time is valuable. Hog sweat as that is
> just being pretentious and egotistical to the Nth
> degree. How much will your time be worth when the
> Zombie Apocalypse (the world economic collapse
> that is with 10 years) happens? Not worth
> anything.

Actually, some men have very valuable time.

A Doctor's time is valuable, a surgeons time is valuable, an ambulance driver is very important. Every volunteer in every charity gives valuable time.
A man who kicks a ball around is pointless, he entertains the sheeple I suppose, that keeps them happy, stops them revolting I suppose.

In the UK, (I presume you are not in the UK), we call the current generation the "X-Factor Generation", their aspirations are to go on XFactor and "become a celebrity", not to be skilled at anything, not to think.

I have a suspicion that I am older than you, I have a suspicion I have seen more of life, and I have seen things that would curdle your blood. If your anger is real, do something useful with it, swearing on internet forums is for children. Are you ready for the Zombie Apocalypse ? You think 3D printers are what we will need when it arrives ?? or electronics ?? Think man, you need to be able to fish, shoot, light a fire, etc.
It's easy to make electricity, but what are you going to do with it ? It's useless without infrastructure, and there won't be any.

I know nothing about you I admit, you might be doing something with it, I hope you are working to make the world a better place, but "how quotes are done on a forum" is definitely not the place to start.

I tell you one thing, I don't have time to debate the semantics of precious and valuable, how it's viewed and rewarded by society.
There's people dying and suffering in this world, and you're worried about what quotes look like on a forum.
Get some perspective.

I typed quite an in depth response to you, and your viewpoint in response was
"I don't like what it looks like when I quote it" followed by wanting to debate the difference between "valuable" and "precious".

I have a feeling you are just angry, you don't want to discuss or consider. I hope things work out, and whatever is making you angry (I'm sure it's not really what quotes look like) gets sorted.

Ages since I fed a troll, I have a theory that when people feed trolls, what they actually do is form an alliance with the troll so that they share in the attention, mutually giving it to eachother.
If you are not the original troll it's easier to bail out before the troll, but you still have to leave the attention you were getting from the troll behind. Human's are SOOO complicated !

Anyway... Ciao.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 04:05AM by DaveS.

I disagree with you as this is a forum, the face, of 3d printing or at least of RepRap and shouldn't it look good? The masses want things that look good and perform well and this is neither. If people wanted things like this forum we would never have evolved out of the Usenet/BBS days.

As far as the Zombie Apocalypse goes I can self sustain but what I am unsure I could do is murder someone who is stealing my garden. If you come into my house I do not own a gun, nor will I, but I surely will beat you with a baseball bat to save my family. I am into Solar Power and Wind Power as rubbing two sticks together like a cave man to start a fire is not for me though I can friction start a fire if needed.

I will say this I am a person who is cash strapped and thanks to what we Americans call Obamacare it will get worse. Even Kelloggs the cereal company locked out the full time workers here (literally locked them out) because of our health care that is forcing companies to drop coverage and workers hours to 31 or less to skirt the requirements of offering healthcare. We do not have a single taxpayer system and that is what we should have received not this horrible thing we had shoved up our rears. So, things are going down hill fast. Am I prepared? As much as I can be but I will say this if we end up in a Mad Max like society the first thing I will do is climb the poles with the solar panels so my family can exists past it.

Really the only thing we can do is group together and fight off the evil ugly that is coming and luckily my wife suddenly passed away back on Feb 7, 2013 because of our lousy healthcare system but luckily she will never see this happen. She knew it was coming and if anyone reads the CBO reports 2019/2020 is when 100% of our GDP will go to pay the National Debt interest with nothing left over for the principle. How long can that go on?

Not a soul's time is valuable because putting a value on it makes you a slave to the system since value is monetary worth which has no value in the coming days but all time is precious regardless of who you are from the poor man living on the street to the highest kings and queens. I wanted to say that value also means one person is better than another as well which is not right either.

edit: We seemed to have been typing at the same time but Ciao as well.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 04:14AM by Dark Alchemist.

---

_______
I await Skynet and my last vision will be of a RepRap self replicating the robots that is destroying the human race.

Request to the moderators, maintainers etc. of this forum: Please open a Philosophical Debates branch into which this and other debates can be moved when they have moved so far from their origin as to be unrecognisable. This would also serve the function of allowing even the sanest of us a place to go when we want to do some really hard blowing.

Mike

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 04:21AM by leadinglights.

leadinglights Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Request to the moderators, maintainers etc. of
> this forum: Please open a Philosophical Debates
> branch into which this and other debates can be
> moved when they have moved so far from their
> origin as to be unrecognisable. This would also
> serve the function of allowing even the sanest of
> us a place to go when we want to do some really
> hard blowing.
>
> Mike

Install an irc client and pay a visit to #reprap there's always a good debate going on in there

---

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