Printed Gun and Police Raid (UK)

Was just watching the news and a makerbot came on the screen in someone's garage.

Didn't catch the full story, but just saw the end where they were showing printed magazines.
and heard "Police have also recovered a number of printed magazines"

That's a bit of a warning isn't it ?

If you were going to print a gun to show your friends and be "cool" you might find your door being broken down in a dawn raid.

(our gun laws are VERY different in the UK to the US)

[www.itv.com]

Looks like they got a cold end lever and a spool holder.

Great haul.

Classic Monty Python Policing ...

[youtu.be]

this story has some pictures.(oh the other one too..) If you recognize it, try find the designs..

> Lengthy prison sentences for possessing a firearm will help police tackle the potential new "phenomenon" of 3D guns, Greater Manchester Police Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy told Sky News.

Yeah, like they'd want to give the dumb kid that made some parts for a gun a lengthy prison sentence. Because destroying lives is the way to keep law and order.

Honest Question: Are Airsoft Guns illegal in the UK?

ddseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honest Question: Are Airsoft Guns illegal in the
> UK?

I don't believe so. Paintball is certainly legal in the UK, and deactivated firearms are legal in the UK: [www.deactivated-guns.co.uk]

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[haveblue.org]

I know little about guns, but even to me they did not look like gun parts.

Almost unbelievable, but sadly typical of our corrupt and incompetent police force. No wonder confidence in the police has been plummeting.

I don't understand all this fuss about 3d printed guns.

It has long been very easy to make home made guns out of metal and I would say even today it is much easier to make a working gun with conventional tools out of metal than it is with a 3D printer. 3D printers do not in my opinion make it any easier to make a gun, it is more of a novelty than anyhting else.

Anyone who wanted to make guns illegally would just get hold of some basic tools, an old lathe and possibly a smallmilling machine and make guns cheaper, more easily and better perormingthan one could ever make with a 3D printer.

Thanks Cody Wilson.

Thanks for pushing the 3D-printed gun in everyone's face.

Thanks for making every 3D printer a 'potential weapons factory'.

Thanks for helping to 'criminalize' 3D printing.

As per usual, Mr. Wilson don't have to bear the costs of his hubris - this shop owner does.

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

I know right. Cuz if Cody Wilson would not of 3D printed a gun then a 3D printed gun would never exist.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 01:08PM by billyzelsnack.

It was his idea to push it in everyone's face, wasn't it?

billyzelsnack Wrote:
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> I know right. Cuz if Cody Wilson would not of 3D
> printed a gun then a 3D printed gun would never
> exist.

[tracesofreality.com]
[www.guns.com]
[thelead.blogs.cnn.com]
[disrupt3d.com]
[news.cnet.com]
[www.forbes.com]
[digitaltexan.net]
[www.newyorker.com]
[www.theguardian.com]
[www.freerepublic.com]

I can go on.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 01:40PM by akhlut.

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- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

akhlut Wrote:
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> It was his idea to push it in everyone's face,
> wasn't it?

Perhaps, but the media was already in full "OMG 3D PRINTED GUNS WILL DESTROY HUMANITY" mode as a result of my printed AR-15 lower. Cody has been more than happy to feed the sensationalist news, certainly, but the hype has been self-perpetuating by the media itself, and now police agencies all over the world have fully bought into the hysteria. The drugs and counterfeit goods seized took a back seat to proclamations of a "3D printed gun factory". Meanwhile, far better improvised firearms are being churned out all over the world to hardly any fanfare: [improguns.blogspot.com]

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[haveblue.org]

lol thats a replicator 2, it only prints pla, I highly doubt that would even survive one shot, it would probably just explode. and the notion that the part might be able to be used in a gun is preposterous, its akin to saying because you posses a screw its a gun part, or can be used in a gun.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 08:17PM by aduy.

The thing that looks like a trigger is this: [www.thingiverse.com], the "magazine" is this: [www.thingiverse.com], both upgrades for the machine in the picture. Farcical!

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

HaveBlue,

If I search for 3D printed guns before 7/1/2012 I get a couple of hits referring to your accomplishment (which it is!) and then there are results for 3D printed nerf guns and adding hot glue guns to 3D printers, etc. The media was aware of it to be sure, but I don't think there was a hysteria. Perhaps you have a different recollection of it given that you were in the middle of it.


After 7/1/2012, it's all Cody Wilson, all the time. I wonder how it got to be that way? I wonder how many interviews Wilson turned down? Zero would be my guess. He's just a provocateur with an agenda that sought out the media spotlight to put his accomplishments in everyones face. A real media whore.

Meanwhile, this guy pays the price.

I'm not anti-gun, I'm anti-stupid.

---

- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]

actually im pretty sure osama bin laden has been using 3d printers to make guns for years. he was actually one of the main supporters of the reprap community. "The prusa i2 is the ak-47 of 3d printers!"

bahahaha!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 03:29PM by aduy.

akhlut Wrote:
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> HaveBlue,
>
> Perhaps you have a different
> recollection of it given that you were in the
> middle of it.

Well, given that a Congressman started having press conferences with a blown-up photo that I had taken (http://blogs-images.forbes.com/andygreenberg/files/2013/01/Screen-Shot-2013-01-18-at-8.29.59-AM.png), it seemed to me like there was plenty hysteria caused by just making a few blog posts. There really wasn't any coverage before July of last year anyhow - I had done my AR rifle testing just before the Aurora shooting, and news outlets seized upon the connection as the "same gun used used in the movie theater massacre". From where I sat, the media was happy to sensationalize something that really wasn't a huge thing because it combined the word "gun" with exciting technology into a sure-fire (forgive the pun) news headline. Cody has been media-savvy enough to capitalize on that and expand coverage/awareness into a full-blown frenzy - he's also done a lot of work championing bitcoin, but that doesn't involve guns, so news has hardly mentioned it. But which of those two things, 3d printed guns or cryptocurrency, will impact us far more in the future?

Eh, there may have been a point I was attempting to make, but I find my train of thought drifting into the realm of philosphy, which I am ill-equipped to deal with. In short, the police should leave the sensationalizing to the media and just do their jobs in an objective manner instead of jumping at shadows.

[/opinion]

PS - aduy, that made me LOL hard. Well done.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 04:00PM by Have Blue.

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[haveblue.org]

I am interested how the media picks it up futher. I hope they publicize the complete lack of any gun here(presumably) as well as the initial reaction..

Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Classic Monty Python Policing ...
>
> [youtu.be]


pocketmoon

I notice that Googling for 3D gun manchester still has BBC as of 5 hours ago said

Quote
Greater Manchester Police (GMP) now say they "cannot categorically say" whether they had recovered the component parts for a gun. A force spokesman said if the tests showed the parts could make a functioning weapon it would be the "first ever seizure of this kind in the UK".

Also, several times on BBC on TV a top cop was shown saying that They were suprised to find a 3D printer in much the same way as he might have said They were surprised to find a bazooks

Mike

p.s. Oh No! they are getting paranoid Oh no! I'm getting paranoid about them getting paranoid (Sorry, first time I have ever used smilies - I won't do it again)

There's now reports on the BBC that they found a spool holder and a part of an extruder.
The owner has done an interview saying that's what they are.

The police are still sending them off for forensic analysis.

Now...

the INTERESTING thing is that the charge is
"making gunpowder"

So.. was he making gunpowder and the police put 2&2 together and presumed he was trying to make a gun ?

I think there's a bit more to the story than "daft police"

I think he underestimated how serious an offence it is to own an illegal firearm, or to make one in the UK.
Gone are the days when we used to mess about making explosives in chemistry lessons I think.

> Gone are the days when we used to mess about making explosives in chemistry lessons I think.

He probably talked on the internet about it? Before the internet, he couldnt have done that, they wouldnt know. And it hardly went wrong either, at least not in a way that warrants more action than is taken against it currently, maybe kids trying to make gunpowder actually produced some good chemists.

I am 99.99% sure that those are not parts of a gun, but actually parts of an atomic bomb.

And that guy was actually charged with printing ingots of U238 - not gunpowder.
They found a satchel with 100kg of highly refined u238 stashed in his grandma's basement.

In relation to suspect's girlfriend, he was recorded saying he wanted to "sweep her of her feet", which is a clear declaration of intent.

DaveS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the INTERESTING thing is that the charge is
> "making gunpowder"
>
> So.. was he making gunpowder and the police put
> 2&2 together and presumed he was trying to make a
> gun ?
>
> I think there's a bit more to the story than "daft
> police"
>
> I think he underestimated how serious an offence
> it is to own an illegal firearm, or to make one in
> the UK.

The fellow with the printer owned several air rifles and even belonged to the local air rifle club - I would wager that he's probably aware of firearms law as a result, even if just tangentially.

Additionally, from what I'm reading, it is legal to make up to 100 grams of black powder in the UK for personal experimentation - people are really jumping on the 'gunpowder' angle, when it's sounding more and more to me like the fellow is a curious tinkerer/hacker/hobbyist of the very sort that is common on this forum, and hardly a criminal.

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[haveblue.org]

Have Blue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fellow with the printer owned several air
> rifles and even belonged to the local air rifle
> club - I would wager that he's probably aware of
> firearms law as a result, even if just
> tangentially.
>
> Additionally, from what I'm reading, it is legal
> to make up to 100 grams of black powder in the UK
> for personal experimentation - people are really
> jumping on the 'gunpowder' angle, when it's
> sounding more and more to me like the fellow is a
> curious tinkerer/hacker/hobbyist of the very sort
> that is common on this forum, and hardly a
> criminal.

I think you are right, making small amounts of gunpowder is not illegal per se. Making "explosive devices" of any sort is highly controlled and likely illegal. I guess that with the new state of terror, amateur activity that would previously have been overlooked are now treated with the heavy hand of the law. He may have been targeted because of his association with the rifle club.

I suspect that PC plod has no more understanding of pyrotechnics than 3d printing, so I take the talk of "making gunpowder" with a pinch of salt.

Bear in mind that police in Ireland confiscated some poor parent's kid merely because they "looked wrong". Law enforcement requires common sense and so frequently it is woefully lacking.

I have looked through all of the reports that come up on the first three pages of a google search using the terms Manchester 3D gun and can't convince myself that the same person charged with making gunpowder is the same person who had a 3D printer. There seemed to have been a widespread police opperation. One paper seems to have reported that the owner of the printer had been released on police bail, but later in the same article reported that a man had been charged with making gunpowder and wes being held in police custody

I think we will have to wait for some time before we hear any more. The papers seem to quite like the idea that a 3D priter factory had been found - the best chance of getting a more complete story is if they decide the police wewe incompetant -which may or may not be true, wjo knows

Mike

Right lets get one thing straight 3d printers or not you can make a gun just getting stuff from B&Q so the police are probably gone a bit OTT the parts in the picture can be anything apart from a part for a gun, and air-soft is legal in the UK as we have a few centres down here in the west country, its more likely a small attempt to scare monger people into thinking 3d printings wrong, the next issue we should be concerned more about is copy write and the way torrent sites are going they will soon attack the 3d community saying we cannot print this or that

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Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]

It is much easier to make a gun without a 3d printer than with it.

Using a 3D printer to make a gun is like using a paintbrush stuck into your nose to make a painting rather than holding the paintbrush in your hand. It may be considered an accomplishment by some but is pretty pointless.

... yes, this was mentioned several times - parts lathed or milled from solid material ar much more stable/rigid than FDM-printed ones ... and cutting/milling plastics or ceramics for 'not detectable' parts is even easier than from metal ... but bashing for lathes or CNC-mills seems to be not effective/profitable enough in respect to voting or image-boosting

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Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Now entering the realm of mythology, the "Manchester 3D Printed Gun ". [appdevelopermagazine.com]
For those who know nothing about this thread, the gun was nothing but 3D printer parts which looked gun-ish to uneducated members of constabulary. Another 10 years it will be accepted as true history.

Mike