Anybody needs to add "smart" electronics functionality to their 3dprints?

Hey guys!

We're a small group of people that know quite a bit about electronics, arduinos, 3d printing and stuff, and we were wondering if the 3d community needs any electronics and/or mechanical functionality for their 3d printed stuff.

If you've been living under a rock and don't know what Arduino is, well, it's a cheap, tiny cloud enabled computer that can sense their environment by receiving input from a variety of sensors (light, distance, temperature, pressure, co2, presence, and TONS more) and can affect their surroundings by controlling lights, motors, servos, power sockets, and other actuators. It can read and post to twitter, facebook, and everything else online, can send/receive text messages, etc. Basically you can make your 3d printed objects SMART AS F**K.

So yeah, the question is, did you ever feel your creation needs some functionality? If yes, what did you want it to do? We're asking because we can setup a simple suggestion/voting system on getsatisfaction.com or here, for you to suggest things we can build for you guys. It can be anything, from cloud-enabled RGB lamps, a mouse, watch, to clocks you can print the design for, and so on, whatever you might need. We'll build and program the electronics, you print the rest. We all do what we love. Does that make sense?

Is there interest in such a thing? What do you want to build?

A bit about us, if you're curious.
We are a small team of people (about 4 plus collaborators) passionate about 3d printing, with a background in interactive art installations. We had shows in european contemporary art museums, we built vapour displays (Holopix) and we have a couple of 3d printers that we love.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2013 06:59AM by DeuxVis.

Something that would sense the variation in diameter - don't forget it can be oval too - in filament feed, and adapt the feed rate accordingly would be nice to improve the prints quality with low-end filament (including home made).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2013 07:00AM by DeuxVis.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

Hmm, I guess that is doable. It would require some kind of mechanical way of measuring the filament size on both axes and then modifying the RR controller to change the speed of the feeder accordingly. I'm not sure how exactly RR advances the filament. Any links on that? Couldn't find info on a quick search.

Is anybody else interested in such a mod?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2013 07:00AM by DeuxVis.

For the filament width sensor there is an optical approach here: [forums.reprap.org]. Currently it only measures in one dimension, so wouldn't be able to compensate for oval filament. It's a good starting point though.

Another idea I would like to see realised, although a bit more complicated, is full colour 3D printing. In the future I may investigate the possibility of making 3D printable piezo inkjets to colour the layers with Cyan/Magenta/Yellow ink (possibly homemade too).I'm not sure what sort of project you're after so this may be too complicated.

Sensors , electronics , firmware, software and compute power needed.

It will be mandatory for the common folk to use 3D printers.

I though smoothieboard would provide much of it but seems to be vaporware?

How about the use of DRO scales to measure the position of extruder and a
feedback system for precise positioning?

Sensor to sense the flow of polymer out of the extruder
Stop the printer if polymer flow stops
Adjust flow for better prints.

Arduino Due based controller to provide more computing power
and firmware control of 3D printers. There are many G-codes not now used
Sort of like moving to a postscript type control of 3D printer
and use of other geometries in printer mechanics.

More feedback from mechanicals to computer and use of feedback
to get better prints and alert to problems.

Smarter stepper drives

These are interesting suggestions, but we are not specifically looking to improve upon the 3d printing process. We want to improve the functionality of the finished printed objects.

The linear optical array is a nice approach though.

Quote
cozmicray
Sensors , electronics , firmware, software and compute power needed.

It will be mandatory for the common folk to use 3D printers.

I though smoothieboard would provide much of it but seems to be vaporware?

How about the use of DRO scales to measure the position of extruder and a
feedback system for precise positioning?

Sensor to sense the flow of polymer out of the extruder
Stop the printer if polymer flow stops
Adjust flow for better prints.

Arduino Due based controller to provide more computing power
and firmware control of 3D printers. There are many G-codes not now used
Sort of like moving to a postscript type control of 3D printer
and use of other geometries in printer mechanics.

More feedback from mechanicals to computer and use of feedback
to get better prints and alert to problems.

Smarter stepper drives

smoothie is hardly vapourware, it's just had a very successful kickstarter and boards are being produced atm. development on firmware is continuing

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Quote
sldx
These are interesting suggestions, but we are not specifically looking to improve upon the 3d printing process. We want to improve the functionality of the finished printed objects.

The linear optical array is a nice approach though.

Huh? not specifically looking to improve upon the 3d printing process
------- improve the functionality of the finished printed objects

The functionality of a printed object is a DESIGN issue. GOOD design leads to GOOD functionality.
Does adding electronics to a finished printed item improve it?

Providing good design tools and the ability to MAKE these designs (Good prototyping -- good 3D printing) is required.

Turning an idea into a finished object a real TASK!
CAD, CAM, Test, re-CAD, re CAM

CAD, CAM and getting a 3D printer to do what you want it to do is difficult at best.

We don't have RDMP yet !!!! (Read Designers Mind & Produce)

Wow. Umm... I may be in the wrong here, but I was under the impression that this is not just a place to discuss 3d printing techniques, but a place for general 3d printing discussions, including this crazy design thing. Please correct me if it is not so.

Quote
cozmicray
Huh? not specifically looking to improve upon the 3d printing process
------- improve the functionality of the finished printed objects
The functionality of a printed object is a DESIGN issue. GOOD design leads to GOOD functionality.
Does adding electronics to a finished printed item improve it?

Yes, functionality is a design issue. We are here to discuss that. The future designs of the people who actually use the printers to print stuff. I'm not sure how I could've been misunderstood.

And yes, adding electronics to a printed item can obviously add functionality impossible to get with just plastics. Is that even a real question?

Quote
cozmicray
CAD, CAM and getting a 3D printer to do what you want it to do is difficult at best.
We don't have RDMP yet !!!! (Read Designers Mind & Produce)

I am not trying to get a 3d printer to do anything, I specifically said I do not want to improve 3d printers, just add further functionality to the finished print. What on earth are you smokin'?

I think I understand what you're after now. Here's one idea that may be generic enough to have multiple uses:

Generic stepper motor controller (not for 3D printer). This would allow you to control a single (or multiple) stepper motor using a rotary encoder or serial interface. It could have two modes. One where turning the encoder increases/decreases the speed, and the other which moves the stepper in predefined increments. This would be useful for projects such as Time-Lapse motion platforms.

For most small projects I prefer to design everything myself including the electronics. For example a recent project of mine was a miniature tank which used an ATMEGA328 micro-controller and a quad half-H driver for the two motors. The electronics were very simple, and there was no point in creating a specially made PCB for it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2013 07:38PM by samp20.

(Yeah, it appears I was a bit unclear. Maybe somebody can point out the confusing part in my post, seems pretty straight forward to me but I guess I'm subjective )

But yes, something along those lines, it doesn't have to be generic and multi-purpose though.

Let's take the simplest example, an RGB lamp with a presence sensor that lights up when you walk by. The electronics would be the size of a pack of gum with a wire and LED attached. And you can make the lamp any shape, size, and color you want, stick the electronics inside, and you have a product. You can make a multitude of lamps, with the same core functionality.

Or an even simpler example that doesn't need that many electronics but it'll help make a point. Take a simple chinese clock. Let's say we'd build the clock with no "background" and no "hands", just the electro-mechanical stuff. And you guys print all kinds of parts to make your own personal clocks without actually building the complicated mechanics, just the background and hands.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2013 08:56PM by sldx.

My bad, sometimes perfectly understandable english makes no sense for my brain.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

No it was not clear what you wanted to do?
I wasn't smokin anything just trying to put some information up on the forum.

It wasn't clear to me that you ONLY wanted to add electronics to a 3D printed object?
More like using 3D print to incase electronics or polymer in concert with electronics

Vermont Rapid Prototyping has been combining electronics, magnets and other items to printed objects
for a while now.

[www.vermontrapidprototyping.com]

Sorry I danced all over your idea?

We're always glad for people to show off what they've done, especially novel ways 3D printing is used in other disciplines. Most people here are interested in improving 3D printing processes and making it available to more people.

If you want to help the community combine electronics and 3D printing, how about finding easier ways to encapsulate electronics in printed objects? Currently it's a fairly manual process to create an enclosure for a hardware design even though most PCB CAD tools can export some sort of clearance model. What would be cool is to take a KiCAD design and generate a cutout for an object for the board (including vertical clearances for components), identify mounting holes and place mounting posts or screw holes, parametrically create PCB edge retention clips or card slots, and create cutouts for connectors and other bits that must poke through the chassis.

If you want something more Arduino-centric, create an OpenSCAD library of shield models to make it easier to make an enclosure for a stack. Or, to be self-serving, a way to mount and aim a BlinkM MaxM would be nice. I have one on my 3DR to light the bed but am using bent sheet metal and double stick tape to hold it on, and a more permanent solution is way too low on my project list.

We did think about that and we have a solution for our electronics. Unfortunately none for general electronics, although I can see a few setups.

Our solution is to give a complete 3d model of the electronics, but more importantly, a 3dmodel of the plastics around the electronics that need to be printed. All somebody would have to do is place the 3d model of the enclosure inside their 3d design and that's it. They would have a well-thought-out and tested solution for enclosing a specific piece of circuitry in their model, with mounting points and screw holes. Better than any automated system can make. That's one of the main reasons we want to develop custom electronics for specific tasks. Not necessarily arduino-centric, more task-centric.

We're offering a solution to this whole mess that you mentioned. You have a need - you get the complete package: electronics, 3d model of the mount, mounting accessories, everything.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2013 01:36PM by sldx.

I do have a request, I suppose something thats been on my wishlist for a while.

I print with ABS quite a bit and in my spare room its not the best ventilation in the world, I have a tendency to sit and watch it print while I design more parts or prep the next run. But thats just a way to pass time while I sit and make sure it doesn't jam (which has been happening a lot lately). I've been considering setting up a PIR on the GPIO of my R-Pi and with a bit of Python wizardary I could get it to email me when there was a LACK of movement.

There are obviously many ways I could work this problem:

1. Open a window
2. Walk away and check in on it once in a while
3. Build a ventilation hood / enclosure
4. Change plastics
5. Install web cam to watch it remotely
6. Fix the jamming issue (suspect faulty USB cable or board connection)

But I suppose I know a little of all of the above and my fav option would be to build an emailing Pi that will "watch" my printers movement and let me know if it stops (i.e. stalled or finished). I think it appeals to me because it could be packaged up and sold as open source kits to other reprappers who wanted to walk away from their kit to take a break.

Would this be something your interesting in working on? If not I would love to know if you have heard of any projects with similiar goals or if you could advise on a particularly good way of sensing the lack of movement.

Sounds like an interesting project.

A PIR wouldn't work though, it only detects IR movement so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. Maybe something like an accelerometer would be better suited, that would detect shakes and the like, and if no shake was detected in 1-2 minutes, send an email.

There's the cheaper and simpler USB version where an arduino would be setup to read the accelerometer and then send an email through the computer (via usb), or the slightly more expensive setup where the arduino is connected either by a normal network cable or wifi, and sends an email independently.

The usb version is so simple that it has to be open sourced, you just need an arduino, accelerometer, wires, and a basic motion detection software.

The other one could be sold as a kit and opensourced since it's not that complicated.

What's the interest on these 2 options for you guys? Any takers for either?

I'd be interested in the independent version. Considering my printer potentially could be printing from its internal storage rather than from a computer, it would make sense to make the project modular. Printer owners could then operate with or without a computer host I've very interested in this already, not sure about seismic sensors, but I'll look in to them, maybe read a few datasheets and see what ideas I can come up with.

A simple "noise" measurement near the motors would probably work too. Those beast are letting us know when they are working...

Regarding interest, I think the simplest solution would be better, people in the reprap community tend to like a "DIY cheaper" solution. Selling unassembled kits maybe ? Wifi/ethernet would be overkill IMO.

Physical design : if you (or anyone) design an enclosure for that widget, think about a captive magnet to stick that sensor directly onto a motor or the machine frame.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.