Your thoughts about the new PICO hotend

[www.kickstarter.com]

I've been following this HotEnd since a while as I am also working on a similar more economic project.
This hotend looks great IMHO. The idea about the one SS part design is brilliant. The team is professional yet funny. It must be very costly to manufacture, but the price isn't overkill. It is one more hotend in the high-end market.

I laughed when they showed their tests (flexion and compression tests) as I think it was completely unnecessary for a hotend in reprap community, unless someone uses super heavy duty NEMA23 steppers for all axis lol!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2013 04:52PM by woodencase01.

I see these guys at my monthly 3D printer meetings in Columbus, OH. Haven't seen it in operation personally, hopefully they will bring it to next months meeting.

I may be interested if there is a provision for a second thermistor in later versions

Why? Don't the majority of today's hot ends only utilize one? Is there a firmware available that utilizes two?

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"I laughed when they showed their tests (flexion and compression tests) as I think it was completely unnecessary for a hotend in reprap community,"

I was impressed,

its clear they have done much more professional design testing than most of the 'made in a garage' designs I've seen here.

The fact they did some FEA on it and heat simulations is also good.

I am very interested in the PICO hotend, I just wish they would give more info about the melt zone. Does anyone know if there are beta testers out there that have reviewed it?

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WWW.ZATOPA.COM - Your Place for high quality 3D Printing Filament and accessories

It looks like they did some nice design.. but for $100 and all the problems I've read about with various all metal hot ends, I'll wait until it gets some reviews. The E3D has already gotten numerous positive reviews and it's significantly less expensive. That seems like a much safer bet to me.

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jzatopa
I am very interested in the PICO hotend, I just wish they would give more info about the melt zone. Does anyone know if there are beta testers out there that have reviewed it?

There are - they're under NDA and not allowed to post openly.

E3D all the way, in my opinion.

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foshon
Why? Don't the majority of today's hot ends only utilize one? Is there a firmware available that utilizes two?

Marlin, I believe a second 'redundant' thermistor is being implemented?
if not i'm planning on having my own separate temperature trip i just don't trust one thermistor!

Hello,

Marlin has dual thermistor support, for one hot-end, implemented. The instructions are here: [jheadnozzle.blogspot.com]

Best Regards,

Brian

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T0mmm

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foshon
Why? Don't the majority of today's hot ends only utilize one? Is there a firmware available that utilizes two?

Marlin, I believe a second 'redundant' thermistor is being implemented?
if not i'm planning on having my own separate temperature trip i just don't trust one thermistor!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2013 03:22PM by reifsnyderb.

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greenman100

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jzatopa
I am very interested in the PICO hotend, I just wish they would give more info about the melt zone. Does anyone know if there are beta testers out there that have reviewed it?

There are - they're under NDA and not allowed to post openly.

E3D all the way, in my opinion.

If the beta testers are having positive response B3 should be having them share their experiences. I know I would buy one if I could read about it's performance, melt zone and see some prints.

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WWW.ZATOPA.COM - Your Place for high quality 3D Printing Filament and accessories

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jzatopa

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greenman100

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jzatopa
I am very interested in the PICO hotend, I just wish they would give more info about the melt zone. Does anyone know if there are beta testers out there that have reviewed it?

There are - they're under NDA and not allowed to post openly.

E3D all the way, in my opinion.

If the beta testers are having positive response B3 should be having them share their experiences. I know I would buy one if I could read about it's performance, melt zone and see some prints.

Yeah, to me it doesn't make much sense to have your Beta testers under NDA. People will be much more willing to purchase a Pico if they could see some positive empirical results of it's performance.

Eric

Sometimes the beta testers have an NDA because they might find Bad Stuff. That feedback is then used for a new generation of product which is sent out without an NDA. Hopefully at that point most of the Bad Stuff has been delt with and the beta testers can give everybody a good vibe.

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Yvan

Singularity Machine

I didn't think of that. Now that you mention it, that makes a lot of sense!

Thanks for clearing that up, Yvan

Eric

Hi guys,

I was one of the beta testers. First, there was no NDA. I am not sure where this rumor is coming from but I have seen it mentioned before. B3 asked that we not post anything until the kickstarter was live.

To summarize my experience with the pico I liked it and I have backed this project. The initial installation on my machine did provide some challenges as the pico is shorter than the unit I was using. I ended up printing my own groovemount adapter in SLS. I print mostly in PLA and you do need active cooling on the heat sink. I used a retraction of about 1.5 mm without trouble. Out of curiousity I tried 2mm which caused some issues with movement of the hot end within the extruder. I feel this is due to my groovemount design. I tested a 3 mm pico but I prefer 1.75 mm filament. The nozzle I was using was 0.4 mm and I think I would prefer something slightly larger with 3 mm PLA.

This is definitely not a part I would recommend to beginners. This is something for advanced users who want to open themselves up to a wider range of printable materials. Especially with the possibility of 500 degrees.

Joe

The fact that it is made out of one piece sounds great at first glance.
But the bad heat conduction of steel could be a Problem to cool on the cold end.
I think its smarter to use Al for the cold end...

Thoughts
As the core is off center from the fins surely the cooling will cause the barrel to distort/bend due to unequal thermal expansion.

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bigfilsing
Thoughts
As the core is off center from the fins surely the cooling will cause the barrel to distort/bend due to unequal thermal expansion.

Since it is machined from SS, I think the unequal thermal expansion will be negligible.

Eric

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RP Iron Man

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bigfilsing
Thoughts
As the core is off center from the fins surely the cooling will cause the barrel to distort/bend due to unequal thermal expansion.

Since it is machined from SS, I think the unequal thermal expansion will be negligible.

Eric

Probably true, the main issue being stiction of the filament in a "bent" barrel. I have had issues with an E3D hot end where ABS slightly over dia ( 3.05 average) can "jam" Just concerned that any amount of distortion to the barrel certainly wouldn't help in this scenario.
Quite interested in the concept of anodisation possibly offering improved heat transfer. Based on the 1000's of "bare alu" heat sinks produced everyday in all manner of electronic equipment i would have thought it would be widely used if it did indeed prove beneficial.
It certainly makes it look pretty :-)

Any new reviews, pictures of prints, etc regarding the PICO hotend?

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NewKidOnTheBlock
Any new reviews, pictures of prints, etc regarding the PICO hotend?

There were no pictures or videos posted on the campaign page, but I found some pictures here on their website.

Eric

Thanks, Eric. I saw the pictures of their prints on their website also.

I'm really curious to hear about people's personal experience with the PICO hotend. They make it sound perfect and flawless... Would like to get more feed back from people that have experienced the PICO to see if it's worth the money.

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NewKidOnTheBlock
Thanks, Eric. I saw the pictures of their prints on their website also.

I'm really curious to hear about people's personal experience with the PICO hotend. They make it sound perfect and flawless... Would like to get more feed back from people that have experienced the PICO to see if it's worth the money.

Apparently RichRap (Richard Horne) was one of the Testers but I couldn't find any post about the PICO hot end on his Blog or YouTube stream... The B3 guys were saying that they were having some delays in manufacturing so the PICO probably won't be out for another few weeks. Once it ships you will probable start hearing reviews on here.

Eric

Thanks for the update, Eric.

As a backer I have four of these on order, but have you seen the review in the just released issue of RepRap magazine at [reprapmagazine.com] ?

Interesting thing. I am curious why the 3mm filament version would only have 2 start with PLA and the 1.75mm version has 3 stars.

I always thought that 1.75mm PLA was harder to print with full-metal hotends.

I got to meet the creators of the Pico at the MRRF and they seam like a great pair of guys. I also got to check out the hotend in person, but I didn't get to see it printing. It is very well manufactured and looks just as nice in person as it does in the pictures. It also turned out that I know one of the beta testers and he told me a bit about his experiences, which were very positive. I am planning on getting a sample to try once I get the kinks worked out of my prototype.

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WWW.ZATOPA.COM - Your Place for high quality 3D Printing Filament and accessories

There is a review of this hotend in the newest reprapmagazine and it was not particularly complimentary.

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Reprap Magazine, Volume 2 Pages 54-55
I have to say this is the longest melt zone I have ever seen on a hot-end, and I do not believe it’s to a benefit for the user.
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I spent a very long time using the Pico, trying to understand how best to use it for many different materials and was never really comfortable using it with any type of PLA.

I read that earlier today. He does mention he was one of the early testers. I do not know if the production piece is different in any way and he doesn't mention what he used for his review.

I guess time will tell.

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691175002
There is a review of this hotend in the newest reprapmagazine and it was not particularly complimentary.

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Reprap Magazine, Volume 2 Pages 54-55
I have to say this is the longest melt zone I have ever seen on a hot-end, and I do not believe it’s to a benefit for the user.
...
I spent a very long time using the Pico, trying to understand how best to use it for many different materials and was never really comfortable using it with any type of PLA.

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WWW.ZATOPA.COM - Your Place for high quality 3D Printing Filament and accessories

Did anyone here something new from B3 innovations?
I ordered the Pico in April and still don't have one.

And I don't really see someone writing about his experiences with a Pico. Can anybody tell me if B3 Innovatons delivers Picos at all? Or did I waste my money to frauds?