Anyone tried one of the new all metal extruders?

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frukc

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tjb1
...to avoid RobotDigg...

why would you want to avoid RobotDigg? bad experience with them?

The 2-3 week lead times.

andy-net,

any feedback on the all metal extruder from israel ?

thanks

While we are on the subject, has anyone tried out the bulldog and bulldog XL from RRD? They seem like a great design but I would like some input before I jump into buying one.

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I'm gonna be fitting the Israel extruder tomorrow so will report back soon as I have chance for a review

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jzatopa
While we are on the subject, has anyone tried out the bulldog and bulldog XL from RRD? They seem like a great design but I would like some input before I jump into buying one.

I'm using it for a couple of weeks now with various 1.75 mm filaments, it works fine and completely reliable. After some days i modified it for use with elastic material, the modification allowed easier material change as well.
Cheers
Björn

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[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]

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So I am quite tempted by the all metal extruders sold on eBay from Israel. They look pretty solid, and the extruder really is where the magic happens so I am trying to work out if it is worth the investment.

So before I go and spend my money, I wonder if anyone else had seen them, and what kind of a reception they are getting. They seem to have a good design, and my wades is really showing its age.

Here's the link [www.ebay.co.uk]

Seems like a lot of money to waste on an extruder. There are a lot of printable designs that work realiably for much less money. An all-metal extruder is not really worth it. The most trouble-prone part of a 3D printer is the hot end, not cold end. And this design still uses a j-head. So technically speaking, it's not really all metal.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 02:25PM by brnrd.

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brnrd
Seems like a lot of money to waste on an extruder. There are a lot of printable designs that work realiable for much less money. An all-metal extruder is not really worth it. The most trouble-prone part of a 3D printer is the hot end, not cold end. And this design still uses a j-head. So technically speaking, it's not really all metal.

It supports the J-Head mount, what hotend you use with it is up to you. I use it with the all metal Hexagon and my Merlin Hotend.
As for the most trouble-prone, i don't see it that clear cut.

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[merlin-hotend.de]
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Srek

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brnrd
Seems like a lot of money to waste on an extruder. There are a lot of printable designs that work realiable for much less money. An all-metal extruder is not really worth it. The most trouble-prone part of a 3D printer is the hot end, not cold end. And this design still uses a j-head. So technically speaking, it's not really all metal.

It supports the J-Head mount, what hotend you use with it is up to you. I use it with the all metal Hexagon and my Merlin Hotend.
As for the most trouble-prone, i don't see it that clear cut.

It doesn't come with the hot end? Well, the title says "ALL METAL" STATE OF THE ART, CNC 3D PRINTING EXTRUDER, REPRAP, J HEAD HOT END". It's even more expensive than I thought if it's not included. It's also misleading advertisement.

As far as the most trouble prone part. I have built 3 printers and I have been printing regularly for 3 years now. The part that I have spent the the most time repairing and the part that has affected print quality the most has been the hot end. Usually, it's the thermal break or insulation between the nozzle and the cold end that's the problem. None of my cold ends (all printed) have ever broken. When you can put together a printer for about $400 usd or so, spending nearly $200 on the cold end is wasteful when it doesn't really make anything better than what you can print for much less.

BTW, that filament gear drive doesn't look good to me. Most of the gear drives used today have curved teeth (look at a hobbed bolt) so that it makes more contact with the filament.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 11:20AM by brnrd.

[www.reprapdiscount.com]
I only see alist of possible hotends.
The filament gear worked fine for me with Rubber, Abs, pla, hips, nylon, pet and fpe, so basically everything from pretty hard to really soft.
Afair this thread is about all metal extruders, i have very positive experience with dozens of printed cold ends i tried or designed over the last years, but they are simple not related to the topic.
I have spend a year developing my own hotend because the stuff available to me at the time was crap. The point is that you can now buy a perfectly fine hotend without much hassle, you even got a decent choice. None of those will cause the trouble you and i experienced over the years. With cold ends this process is a bit behind, but i see the bulldog as one of a few contenders for of the shelf simply working extruders. Yes, it's not cheap, but some people prefer to invest more money than time.

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[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]

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Srek
Afair this thread is about all metal extruders

The first post on this thread is specificcally about an all metal hotend that is being sold on ebay.

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brnrd
Seems like a lot of money to waste on an extruder. There are a lot of printable designs that work realiable for much less money. An all-metal extruder is not really worth it. The most trouble-prone part of a 3D printer is the hot end, not cold end. And this design still uses a j-head. So technically speaking, it's not really all metal.

I think that's a very personal opinion. We all have different configurations and diversity is one of the strengths of the community, I think any time someone wants to try something new that enriches all our experiences and our collective expertise.

Yes its not very reprap, but I am concerned with having a printer that works repeatably and dependably, I myself have had more problems with the extruder than anything else, so this is my path to accomplishing what I want to achieve. I find my J-heads to perform better than my extruder does so iteratively, I have been replacing the weak points till I am happy. That's why I went from a nuts and bolts mendel to laser cut titanium, a resistor HPB to a silicone one, and from aluminium to toughened glass and so on.

Anyway, my review ....

I have been playing with the new extruder all afternoon and I am simply blown away. This thing just pulls and pulls. I have the 3mm version and at one point I had it lifting my vice up from the floor and that's gotta be a good 10kg . The quality is outstanding and it is exactly what I wanted it to be. The only way I can make it skip is by using the vice and force, I simply cant stop it pulling with my grip alone, I'd be seriously careful about running a cold extrude as I bet it would break an extruder no problem. I want to do a few long prints with it over the weekend, we'll see if I get that far but I'd give it 11 out of 10. Yes its expensive, but I think its good value. My tired old wades can take a well deserved retirement.

I would have no reservations in recommend this to anyone right now.

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brnrd

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Srek
Afair this thread is about all metal extruders

The first post on this thread is specificcally about an all metal hotend that is being sold on ebay.

Just a misunderstanding then, i was refering to the posts immediately above yours that realted to the bulldog, not the one from the first post.

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[merlin-hotend.de]
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Sorry about that. I should have quoted the first post.

I just did so someone else doesn't get confused.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 02:26PM by brnrd.

andy-net can we see some prints?

If only the micron wasn't so damn expensive. I would buy one today if it was $150-160.

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andy-net

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brnrd
Seems like a lot of money to waste on an extruder. There are a lot of printable designs that work realiable for much less money. An all-metal extruder is not really worth it. The most trouble-prone part of a 3D printer is the hot end, not cold end. And this design still uses a j-head. So technically speaking, it's not really all metal.

I think that's a very personal opinion. We all have different configurations and diversity is one of the strengths of the community, I think any time someone wants to try something new that enriches all our experiences and our collective expertise.
...

Anyway, my review ....

I have been playing with the new extruder all afternoon and I am simply blown away. This thing just pulls and pulls. I have the 3mm version and at one point I had it lifting my vice up from the floor and that's gotta be a good 10kg . T.....

I would have no reservations in recommend this to anyone right now.

Of course, my opinions are personal? What else would they be?

Pulling 10 kg is not really something to get really excited about. Look in this wiki on Wade's geared extruder and read about how he was able to pull more than16 kg with it back in 2010. The limiting component was actually the NEMA 17 stepper.

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brnrd

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andy-net

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brnrd
Seems like a lot of money to waste on an extruder. There are a lot of printable designs that work realiable for much less money. An all-metal extruder is not really worth it. The most trouble-prone part of a 3D printer is the hot end, not cold end. And this design still uses a j-head. So technically speaking, it's not really all metal.

I think that's a very personal opinion. We all have different configurations and diversity is one of the strengths of the community, I think any time someone wants to try something new that enriches all our experiences and our collective expertise.
...

Anyway, my review ....

I have been playing with the new extruder all afternoon and I am simply blown away. This thing just pulls and pulls. I have the 3mm version and at one point I had it lifting my vice up from the floor and that's gotta be a good 10kg . T.....

I would have no reservations in recommend this to anyone right now.

Of course, my opinions are personal? What else would they be?

Pulling 10 kg is not really something to get really excited about. Look in this wiki on Wade's geared extruder and read about how he was able to pull more than16 kg with it back in 2010. The limiting component was actually the NEMA 17 stepper.

QFA, some of the wades i used over time could have easily distorted the frame and snap the filament.
In fact i turn down the current for the bulldog quite a lot to prevent it from damaging anything in case something goes wrong. More important are precise guidance of the filament, an even grip and reliable transport.

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[www.bonkers.de]
[merlin-hotend.de]
[www.hackerspace-ffm.de]

I joined this kickstarter. They are American (I am Canadian). The store should be open post April.
[www.kickstarter.com]

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I joined this kickstarter. They are American (I am Canadian). The store should be open post April.

The heating block is stainless steel. Is that thermally conductive enough?

cfeniak :


It is doable to have a stainless steel heated block but why? temp variance from nozzle tip to heater would be up to 40 deg c. unless absolutely no air traveled near the nozzle end, or the heated block is coated in kapton tape to allow equilibrium about the temp of the nozzle. I doubt the vendors claim of 1 deg accuracy to the hot zone temp, and the temp at the nozzle is what you care about anyway. this should be the hottest part of the feedstock.

I would think that aluminum would be better,or bronze/ copper best to heat the hot end. stainless is good for separation of hot and cold regions, and for its strength and size stability thru temp changes.

the cartridge heater is in this design sideways, meaning a hot zone of over 1 inch. I have made hot zones like this before, if used for abs i think it may work ok. if used for pla you will not get enough speed from the internal friction of the liquid, and the pla may also crystallize causing a jam. with stainless steel as thick as it is in the hot region and as long as it is there is no way to cool down the plastic inside except to bring in more cold feedstock. This part would be better to be sleeved by a more thermally conductive metal.

to alleviate this i would ask this vendor to create a 5hrs print in pla. and also to do a calibration cube in pla.

this hot end style also will jam if heat is allowed to creep up, such as if you use retraction.

Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 05:06PM by jamesdanielv.

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brnrd
Sorry about that. I should have quoted the first post.

I just did so someone else doesn't get confused.

Yeah, but what doesn't help is that the title of post says "extruder", and (IMHO) in a lot of Reprap terminology/posts the word "extruder" typically refers to the cold end, with the hotend being expressly referenced as such.

I'll concede that many will think of the "extruder" as being both the cold and hot ends, but experience and reference to Thingiverse items, etc will demonstrate that hotends are referred to seperately.

Also, many people read posts in their own right (I.e. The words in the post) without following the links to ebay, etc to exactly what the person means.

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cfeniak
I joined this kickstarter. They are American (I am Canadian). The store should be open post April.
[www.kickstarter.com]

Now that I'm reading so much failure on all metal in combination with PLA... I am getting anxious to get anything like 'all metal' things and I feel it's more of a popular thing now instead of really being something you want when you're only printing ABS and PLA anyway.

Wasn't the idea to make an all metal extruder so that we could print more special materials that can withstand higher temperatures, thus making them more suited to be used as machine constructing parts?

I agree they look cool and ofcourse, when you need them for higher temps, you need it. But I feel a lot of users are blinded by popularity.

Well I just bit the bullet to try the bulldog and bulldog xl out. Once I am done with testing them I will be sure to share.

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WWW.ZATOPA.COM - Your Place for high quality 3D Printing Filament and accessories

I'm about to order a bulldog XL + E3D hotend for 3mm filament (ABS and PLA) to replace a badly printed wade's extruder and pre-groovemount J-head.

Since we're now a full two months later, do any of you guys having bought a bulldog regret it? Do you have any advice for me?

Looking at the combo with the E3D, could anyone tell me if I'm supposed to have both the bulldog fan and the E3D fan on there, or does the bulldog fan suffice?

I've also noticed the pictures of the bulldog with E3D have a different plastic mount. Why is this? And couldn't I modify the mount I'll get with the bulldog instead? (I have a manual metal mill in my workshop.)

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bernieke
I'm about to order a bulldog XL + E3D hotend for 3mm filament (ABS and PLA) to replace a badly printed wade's extruder and pre-groovemount J-head.

Since we're now a full two months later, do any of you guys having bought a bulldog regret it? Do you have any advice for me?

Looking at the combo with the E3D, could anyone tell me if I'm supposed to have both the bulldog fan and the E3D fan on there, or does the bulldog fan suffice?

I've also noticed the pictures of the bulldog with E3D have a different plastic mount. Why is this? And couldn't I modify the mount I'll get with the bulldog instead? (I have a manual metal mill in my workshop.)

If you only run one fan, run the E3D fan.