Is there anything better than the Smartrap?

So I've just figured out about the Smartrap and think that I can self-source it for under $300 this spreadsheet I found online

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnREfybtmEJNdElDa2d1a09NQ3ozSmVYaWhOeFZBUGc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

I've modified it for myself and improved on it. I've switched some of the German ebay sites to different english ones. I still need help self sourcing this thing. I don't know what a bowden tube is or a brass insert.Can anybody help me with this? And there's a printer as good as the Smartrap and can be self sourced for the same price please let me know.

I've attached my excel spreadsheet of the parts. The three highlighted things are just things that i'm questionable about finding.

Maybe I'm mis-reading it, but the money column appears to be in Euros and not US Dollars. That puts your parts list at least $50 more than the $299 Printrbot Simple kit on Amazon, which is probably the benchmark for lowest cost 3D printer at the moment from what I've seen. (Edit: I see that you did correct the money, but not the column label.)

There are two popular types of "print head" mechanisms for plastic filament. One has the feed motor attached directly to the carriage and hot end. The other (Bowden extruder) mounts the feed motor on a stationary part of the printer's frame, and feeds the filament through a flexible PTFE (teflon) tube to the moving hot end. The parts you're looking for are most likely the PTFE tubing and stuff from a Bowden extruder.....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 08:16PM by vreihen.

Another observation/question - Is your RAMPS card missing the Arduino Mega 2960 processor board?????

anything better? I know nothing of this printer. this may be another marketing placement trap... not sure yet...

Oh your right. I replaced all of the prices that I switched the ebay addresses with so that means that with the Euro to US Dollars exchange will only be a matter of $10-$15.

You can use mrmetric.com for hardware.

Dont buy a chinese knock-off hotend. Get the real thing.

Get 90lb Spectra fishing line.

Buy endstops and sockets, etc. from either mouser or digikey. It's cheaper.

PS. If you are in the US I can print you the parts for cheaper. Just send me a PM.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 10:23PM by gmh39.

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I like the idea of Smartrap, an attempt to create a simple minimal design. The cost is not great value for money, you could probably spend a bit more and get something more sturdy. A big part of the cost is electronics and motors, which you can always reuse with some of the other parts, so it is not a bad entry point.

The maritime insert is used as a drive gear, some sources here [reprap.org]

Bowden tube is just PTFE tubing ID 2mm, OD 4mm.

Power supply, anything that provides 12V. You can often scrounge one of these, e.g.ATX PSU, or power brick for monitors or laptops might be suitable.

Your RAMPS kit does not include an Arduino! For a RAMPS kit look for "RAMPS + Arduino + 4 x A4988" or similar.

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I had never seen this design prior to reading your post. It looked pretty cool, so I chose to investigate a little more. As others have said, there are sturdier machines out there but this is also a great starting point. If I were to build my own, I would go the Chinese route and try to build one for as little as possible. With that in mind, I put together my own BOM with parts sourced from as few vendors as possible. For $300, it looks like great fun.

Thank you so much! This is significantly better that what I originally had. I'm wondering, when you have it set up and built, are you able to print from an SD card and is there a way to put an LCD screen on it?

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BradStaff
Thank you so much! This is significantly better that what I originally had. I'm wondering, when you have it set up and built, are you able to print from an SD card and is there a way to put an LCD screen on it?

Robotdigg sells that as an option - the LCD with SD card slot is $18.00 [www.robotdigg.com]. Also, GMH39 had a great suggestion in mrmetric.com. It looks like their hardware is significantly less expensive than bolt depot, and they have a flat $6.00 shipping charge. Good luck!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 05:30PM by stonedcoldskier.

I did a little more digging, and it can still be done for less. Makerfarm has some pre-wired endstop switches on sale, as well as molex pins and housings. With that, and a Meanwell power supply from ebay, you can completely eliminate the Newark order and save about $25.00. There are also a few pennies to be saved with mrmetric vs bolt depot. I made the small upgrade to a ceramic cartridge heater. It will heat faster and make for much easier dismantling if you need to service/clean your hotend.

This is great! Do you think it needs a heated build plate?

Only if you're planning to print ABS. Personally, I would forget the HBP for now. You can always add a small silicon heater mat to the glass if you'd like to upgrade, but you'll also need a minimum 20a power supply. I did notice that there's no servo for the automated bed leveling in the original BOM, and it also looks like there are some M3 nuts used in the assembly that aren't mentioned either.

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stonedcoldskier
I did a little more digging, and it can still be done for less. Makerfarm has some pre-wired endstop switches on sale, as well as molex pins and housings. With that, and a Meanwell power supply from ebay, you can completely eliminate the Newark order and save about $25.00. There are also a few pennies to be saved with mrmetric vs bolt depot. I made the small upgrade to a ceramic cartridge heater. It will heat faster and make for much easier dismantling if you need to service/clean your hotend.

I'm going to try and get your list out there. I'm going to post it on thingiverse. Is that okay?

[www.thingiverse.com]

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jamesdanielv
anything better? I know nothing of this printer. this may be another marketing placement trap... not sure yet...

Why would you think that? The designer is French and hence is mostly active in the Francophone user group forum. [forums.reprap.org]

This is *NOT* a marketing placement trap. This is a genuine RepRap project. As bobc said, his concept is a minimalist design, with an attempt to reduce vitamins, easy and quick to assemble/disassemble.

BradStaff: the SmartRap looks promising, but keep in mind the design is still not finalized. Anyone who builds one will be a beta tester. Or even an alpha tester.

not sure yet means not sure yet. I'm not convinced. you really don't want me to clarify that hear do you?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 09:47AM by jamesdanielv.

I looked at RobotDigg when I was sourcing my parts for my Mendel90. Their item price is very attractive, but the shipping killed it for me. In my case, for 5 steppers, a length of 6mm belt and two tiny gears shipping was $35 IIRC. Add to that their lead times before they shipped were 5 days after they received their money. You also have 5-6 days for FedEx Int'l Economy, or 10-21 days for air mail and if you want it any time soon...eek. Plus, if you're looking to order very soon, they are closed down until Feb 10th for the Chinese New Year.

As an alternative to RobotDigg, I got most of my items from a guy who sells on ebay under the name sidewinderinc. Most of the items were buy it now and negotiable on price so make a fair offer. He's from New Hampshire and I had my parts in 2 or 3 days ordering over the holidays to Indiana. Not affiliated with him in any way, just a satisfied customer.

You're using 5/16" rod but 8mm bearings. There's a few hundredths of an inch difference. You're intruducing play at each bearing with each axis. Why not get some real 8mm rod? It's not that much more to do it right.

I'd use Digikey instead of Newark. Personal preference I guess, but for me they are almost always cheaper although your order isn't exactly huge.

Is 60w going to be big enough power supply? A 40w hot end + 4 steppers possibly drawing 1+amp each is going to exceed your power supply.

You have a bunch of metric screws, but only 1 nut. What are used to tighen the fasteners? I'm not familar with the build of the Smartrap so maybe the base is tapped or something.

I ordered from Robotdigg back in August, and the shipping was only $30 for a larger order - 8 Steppers, 2 with 450mm shafts, 20 LM-10 bearings, Belts, Pulleys, and probably a few more things that I'm forgetting. Perhaps I got a bit of a break for the size of the order, or maybe the shipping rates have changed. So long as the electronics work, I still think that their prices for the Ramps and Arduino go a long way in overcoming the shipping charges.

Nuts were mentioned in an above post, but I have also discovered that the original BOM spec's 2 - "M4 bolts for both ends of bowden tube" when, in fact, these should be M4 Nuts. There also looks to be about 15 M3 nuts used in the assembly, so ordering 20 should cover it. Of course, there's no mention of washers either and they certainly wouldn't hurt.

The 5/16 vs 8mm rod debate is one that I have seen in other places. I sought some advice when building my Prusa Mendel, and the consensus was that it didn't really matter. 8mm is certainly more correct but, with 4 bearings on each axis, there is no noticeable play. Do you have an inexpensive source for the 8mm? At that time it was 5-6x more costly than the 5/16".

You're right about the power supply. The original BOM specifies a 60W brick, but still uses a resistor for the hot end. A 10A or 12.5A power supply, like this: [www.ebay.com], should work fine, but it may be worth upgrading to a 20A or 30A power supply if you're considering adding a heated bed down the line.

The only other concern in my BOM is that of using D-shaped shafts on the stepper motors in conjunction with the fishing line. The flat spot on the shaft will create a cam effect that will affect the prints. I would use a pulley like this one: [robotdigg.com], in order to provide a round surface and some mechanical advantage. It should also have the advantage of an even 80 steps/mm in the firmware.

I have updated my BOM, with changes highlighted in yellow.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 11:13AM by stonedcoldskier.

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stonedcoldskier
I ordered from Robotdigg back in August, and the shipping was only $30 for a larger order - 8 Steppers, 2 with 450mm shafts, 20 LM-10 bearings, Belts, Pulleys, and probably a few more things that I'm forgetting. Perhaps I got a bit of a break for the size of the order, or maybe the shipping rates have changed. So long as the electronics work, I still think that their prices for the Ramps and Arduino go a long way in overcoming the shipping charges.

I was just going by what I was quoted in December. They were always fast in getting back to me with a quote when I submitted an order via their website so the safest thing is to just ask and see I guess.

I've bought things from China before, but when I've done so I've always done it with the knowledge that I may never see my item or get my money back. Maybe it's just xenophobia, but I feel my purchase is safer with US sources. Plus it's defintiely quicker. So while it's not $55, $59 for the exact same thing, shipped beats having to import it.

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The 5/16 vs 8mm rod debate is one that I have seen in other places. I sought some advice when building my Prusa Mendel, and the consensus was that it didn't really matter. 8mm is certainly more correct but, with 4 bearings on each axis, there is no noticeable play. Do you have an inexpensive source for the 8mm? At that time it was 5-6x more costly than the 5/16".

The original designs call for pairs of rods 240, 220, and 250mm. Presuming you aren't expanding the capacity, that's only two lengths 36" long, not your indicated 3. You can even get by with two 800mm lengths of 8mm polished. These are the ones I bought. They are listed at 11.99 for 800mm (other sizes are available in their store) so that would put them at about 3x your cost, but you can also make an offer. I offered approximately $11 including shipping for each rod and it was accepted. YMMV.

I understand about the cost savings. I had the same goals when I was sourcing all my parts too. There's always a trade off on lower cost and "good enough", or higher costs and more precise. But presuming you can get the same $11 price shipped, you're only talking a $12 price difference and you're eliminating (as much as you can) a source of play. Those bearings and rod are moving back and forth thousands of times for every print. It's not like using a SAE screw where a metric one was called for to hold down a bracket in a fixed position and once it's in place, it never moves again.

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jamesdanielv
not sure yet means not sure yet. I'm not convinced. you really don't want me to clarify that hear do you?

And did you even bother reading what I posted? Did you even take the time to look at the topic I linked?

Anyway, whatever.

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NormandC

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jamesdanielv
not sure yet means not sure yet. I'm not convinced. you really don't want me to clarify that hear do you?

And did you even bother reading what I posted? Did you even take the time to look at the topic I linked?

Anyway, whatever.

Linked what?

Brad,

Please read my first reply here. I would think it's pretty clear what the link is. And yeah, it's in French. But anyone fluent in French (or even using a translation service) would see from the 11-page topic that the SmartRap guy is genuine and has no hidden agenda.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 07:42PM by NormandC.

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NormandC
Brad,

Please read my first reply here. I would think it's pretty clear what the link is. And yeah, it's in French. But anyone fluent in French (or even using a translation service) would see from the 11-page topic that the SmartRap guy is genuine and has no hidden agenda.

Yes. I knew that when I posted this thread.

Just a little hi to everyone reading here . Thank you for starting this topic. I'm glad there's some little interest in this project

I'm reading often here too so if you need to know anything about the Smartrap project, just ask , it will be a pleasure to answer here .. in english

It's true the french thread has become a little my dev blog , sorry for english readers, i try to do everything in both languages but miss a little time lately .

After the first batch is delivered, i will have more time to work on communication . There will be more doc and infos too .

Thank you

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smartfriendz
Just a little hi to everyone reading here . Thank you for starting this topic. I'm glad there's some little interest in this project

I'm reading often here too so if you need to know anything about the Smartrap project, just ask , it will be a pleasure to answer here .. in english

It's true the french thread has become a little my dev blog , sorry for english readers, i try to do everything in both languages but miss a little time lately .

After the first batch is delivered, i will have more time to work on communication . There will be more doc and infos too .

Thank you

Do you see any problems the most recent spreadsheet?

[forums.reprap.org]

spreadsheet would be easier if it was web based and up on the reprap wiki, if it is then that is great!

start a forum heading under machine variations so people that use this can post feedback for you in your alpha phase.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2014 08:01PM by jamesdanielv.

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jamesdanielv
spreadsheet would be easier if it was web based and up on the reprap wiki, if it is then that is great!

start a forum heading under machine variations so people that use this can post feedback for you in your alpha phase.

Which machine variation should I put it under? Mendel?

contact an admin they can setup a new one for your machine, unless you feel it is a variant of one of the machines listed.

Wow,
This thread has really exploded since this morning.

Brad - on the advice of CDRU, I have made one more change to the spreadsheet. It now uses the 8mm smooth rods from sidewinderinc on ebay. I priced out the rest and, while some of his prices are comparable, others are double if not more. Eliminating the Robotdigg.com order and sourcing parts through sidewinderinc will add $45.00 to the bom, but only save $9.00 from the (estimated) shipping charges.


Smartfriendz - Thank you for joining in on the discussion! It really looks like a great concept. I saw that the political decision was made to print only in PLA, but have you fitted a heated build platform to a Smartrap? Also, have you given any thought to making the idler roller on the extruder adjustable? Am I correct that current versions are no longer using a wooden plate for the base?

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jamesdanielv
contact an admin they can setup a new one for your machine, unless you feel it is a variant of one of the machines listed.

Do you know how to contact an admin?