The old printers vs. The new wave

Hello All!

As I've observed, there have been a spike in the different types of Repraps recently. I was wondering if the new printers are comparable to the ones that have been around for a while. The Mendel90 seems to have been around for a while now and it doesn't seem to be dropping in popularity. The Mendel Prusa has also been a popular printer. But these printers seem to have been out for a while. Newer printers like the Phoenix, Deltas, Morgan, R-360 etc. try to address the very few problems the old ones have, they also seem to have new features. (Ex. Phoenix's Z axis) Would buying like a Phoenix or a Delta be better for new users? Or do you think sticking with the old and and notable ones is the way to go.

-Razer0901

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2014 06:04PM by Razer0901.

deltas are still experimental except for firmware provided by the vendor.


if a vendor such as seemecnc is used for the delta bot then sure its is faster


mendel90 is a reliable printer. if you want to print parts at will then this is a good one.

prusa printers and formats are a bit more finicky, it is hard to know when z axis will level correctly, or when parts will start to fail. this is where a high end kit would help you with better components that do not wear quickly, or pre-loaded bearing or precision rods and bushings.


new tech to watch out for is better firmware for delta bots improving compatibility and multi point contact probe sensing on z axis to improve z leveling for start prints.

as for general use, everything reprap since mendel release that has extrusion as a calculation and not a dc motor should be compatible. there may eventually be differences in commands for extrusion, and multi head prints, but in general code should work between printers if firmware is calculated correctly for flow rates and feedrates.

so it goes in development bigger better longer faster. getting something new, that has been around 6 months that has reviews in, is likely the best option. just type the model in on youtube. you will need to judge a little bit. some people that build kits have no business even brushing there teeth without help.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2014 10:34PM by jamesdanielv.

My two cents is that you as an individual need to assess your own skills, the available skills pool of your friends, and most importantly what you want to use a 3D printer for before you can make any decisions. How mechanically inclined are you? What is your background in electronics and software? How deep is your toolbox with precision tools like micro-allen keys, wire strippers, soldering tools, and jeweler's screwdrivers? What skills or tools can you "borrow" from your friends? We can't answer these questions, but they are the basics that anyone needs to ask before making the decision between a fully-assembled printer, buying a kit with support from a vendor, or going it on your own by gathering parts and following posts on the web.

In my own case, I own race cars, have a deep toolbox, have written device drivers for firmware, and have successfully soldered up electronics kits. My initial big project involves printing airfoil ribs with a root chord of 45cm out of ABS, which rules out most of the traditional printer designs that have only a 20cm heated bed. So, I decided to design my own Delta printer from scratch, and RepStrap it from whatever I could get my hands on locally since I didn't have access to a 3D printer to make the first round of parts. I like the challenge, and have all of the skills necessary to do it without having to tap friends for help.

In financial retrospect, given the amount of money that I've thrown away trying things and that I have not yet even printed one of the airfoil ribs that were my initial motivation for building a 3D printer because the printer is always printing more printer parts, I would have been much better off buying a $299 Printrbot simple kit from Amazon and making the airfoils in multiple small parts that are assembled into one piece. I'm having fun with the challenge, but it is consuming all of my free time and then some.

As for the Delta-haters, there are at least three major firmware options with full/mature Delta support - Marlin, Repetier, and Smoothieware. The Arduino 1284 and Mega 2560 are being pushed to the limit of their 16Mhz CPU doing the floating point math required to calculate Delta movements at higher micro-step rates, so I recommend shopping for a printer that uses either an Arduino DUE (with Repetier firmware) or Smoothieboard (either their board or an Azteeg X5 mini) if you're looking at Deltas. The technology is changing almost weekly, and breakthroughs like magnetic ball joints from a year ago seem ancient compared with what someone did with a piece of string to serve the same function last week.

If you like to be on the cutting edge and are up for challenges, don't be afraid to look at a Delta or one of the new Cartesian designs. Just be ready for a whole lot more work calibrating and tinkering to get it just right. If you just want to print and have good support available, look to one of the well-tested Cartesian printers. As I said at the beginning, we can't answer these questions for you.....

Deltas are over 2 years old, have 2 or 3 generations of designs and several manufacturers, it's time to stop saying it's expermental. Are they evolving at a high rate, yes, but deltas have been stable for quite some time. And yes, calibration can be a b*tch (if you do it manually), but that is one area they have really had A LOT of development recently. My last delta took a total of 20 minutes to calibrate thanks to auto-calibration.

I do agree with Vreihen though, deltas are still a design best left to tinkerers but only because they lack the support of cartesians and they are a bit more troublesome when there is a problem, but functionally, I'll pit my deltas against any Reprap you want and not only print just as good, but at nearly twice the speed.

key point in above post here again

deltas are still experimental except for firmware provided by the vendor.

if you use the defaults by the vendor, and use one that is a kit you will be ok.

The only firmware that is 100% compliant for deltas is repetier host.
for example as much as i like marlin firmware, the lcd command menus do not perform homing functions as needed for proper function of delta.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2014 05:21AM by jamesdanielv.

I just wonder about one thing that's, so far, prevented me from adding a delta to my planned collection: how are the straight lines? Architechtual prints? Accuracy on these?
Is that something that varies from delta to delta?

From my experiance with my own build Rostock with end frames cut on a fretsaw from Perspex (Acrylic), I managed to keep the worst errors of position of the rods to under 0.2mm. I calibrated and trimmed until I could do no better and have not seen errors greater than 0.5mm on larger parts. Over the whole print volume, 210 mm dia by 326mm tall on mine, I think that it is likely that the worst errors could be plus or minus 1 mm. However bad that sounds, the errors due to distortion of larger prints are the same or greater. I think that for artistic, and the majority of architectural purposes it is very acceptable but for engineering work I use my much modified Mendel Prusa as it is possible to trim out so much more of the errors.

Mike

Quote
MrDoctorDIV
I just wonder about one thing that's, so far, prevented me from adding a delta to my planned collection: how are the straight lines? Architechtual prints? Accuracy on these?
Is that something that varies from delta to delta?

If they are well built and calibrated they are generally as good as a cartesian printer, usually with better layer alignment.
The biggest issues with deltas is they are more sensitive to assembly issues, and firmware configuration and calibration are significantly more onerous.
There are also some minor issues with hitting the limit of the CPU on the ATMega chips in most electronics, but in practice you rarely see it, smoothie boards should be fast enough to avoid the issues, but I haven't personally tried them.

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