Building a large format printer...where do I start?

Hi!

I want to build a 3D printer, and considering the usage, I decided a large format printer would be the best choice. After looking at several kits, and not finding anything big enough, I've started trying to research what I would need to build a printer with a build area of 4'L x 3'W x 2'H (24 cubic feet). I've already started pricing the materials for the frame and housing, but as far as the electronics, what would I need?

I also would like to incorporate an extruder that moves in all three axes, if it's possible. If not, then go with XY and a Z bed, I haven't decided yet.

And yes, I know that RepStrapping is the hardest method for a first time builder, but I'm no slouch when it comes to working with electronics. I'm just stumped as to where I should start.

Thanks, and I look forward to your advice!

I think that you should start with a reality check! 3D printing is a slow process, and a job requiring that size bed would probably take weeks to finish. Plus, you will need to figure out how to change filament spools mid-job, since you will probably go through several spools. While having a huge bed seems like a good idea, you will quickly find that for error recovery reasons alone breaking down a part into smaller pieces and printing them individually is the correct way to go.....

+1 unless you are planning on using a 1cm nozzle, then just no, seriously that's too large to be of any use. 1ft X 1ft X 1ft or thereabouts is the largest feasible printer IMHO.

I originally planned on building a meter by half meter by half meter build area, but quickly found what's already been suggested; it's highly unreasonable. Like the South's super large trucks that quite literally get 7mpg and using it as a daily driver.
I've cut it down to 600mm by 600mm and quite frankly I'm still coming accross potential issues and will likely need to cut that back more. I might go to 400mm by 650mm bed, being longer on one axis as far as I've found, it the best idea for getting larger prints.

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Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

That size is probably a little unreasonable even a professional FDM machine is not available in that size. You are going to need to have a heated enclosure and your machine is going to have to be super reliable it is going to run for long periods of time 24 hours for a week or more with an open loop stepper system that is very hard to do

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2014 09:39AM by cnc dick.

Biggest one I know of, and good luck affording that, let alone building one as stable at a larger dimension.

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Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

At a large scale, you can forget machines that have a moving bed, restricting you to x-y-z gantries and Delta style printers. Most of the large format printers have been cartesian gantries, I'm not exactly sure what limitations the Delta format faces when scaled up...

Also, once you have bigger than about a 2mm nozzle, it's time to abandon filament altogether and get a screw pump to extrude directly from plastic pellets so you can load several kilos of plastic in at a time.

4 by 3? you need a heavy robot arm with 16 degrees of freedom. good luck.

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MrDoctorDIV
Biggest one I know of, and good luck affording that, let alone building one as stable at a larger dimension.

Hahaha, what a tiny thing!

This printer overrules them all!!!!
[vimeo.com]

Meanwhile he has developed a way better one btw, in this video you see the extrusion isn't the most constant, right now he has improved arms, nozzles, extrusion and best of all, new plastics. He uses ground up fridge plastics, PET etc. Check out his site too, I've been at his workspace, he's a great guy too.

Oh and don't worry about fumes, the new printers have suction tubes next to the nozzle on both sides to capture all the plastic fumes.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2014 04:56AM by Ohmarinus.

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http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/

Maybe switch to printing with concrete [www.youtube.com]

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Ralph.Hilton
Maybe switch to printing with concrete [www.youtube.com]

Hey, nice video, however, I think making a Mold for concrete is first of all quicker, reusable and the mold itself can also be made with a CNC-type machine.

There's another member here on the forum experimenting with printing concrete/plaster/ceramics, but I haven't heard of him for a while. I think he was using a rotary pump to pump the material through the nozzle, I wonder how far he's come.

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http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/

I think there should be a sticky along the lines of:

"I'm thinking of building a (insert ridiculous size here) sized printer"

1) Don't - it's not that good an idea
2) If you really insist - then take any of the multitude of the good existing stationary bed basic designs (coreXY, ultimaker etc), and scale it up using really thick linear rails, large motors, custom electronics and then throw some additional $$$ at it for good measure.
3) This is a bad idea

4) Study up on nuclear power plant construction and operation, as you will need one to power a heated bed of that size.

5) Break down your huge part into a number of small pieces, to minimize your losses in the event of a print failure.

6) See #1 and #3 above.....

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Ohmarinus

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MrDoctorDIV
Biggest one I know of, and good luck affording that, let alone building one as stable at a larger dimension.

Hahaha, what a tiny thing!

This printer overrules them all!!!!
[vimeo.com]

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cnc dick
That size is probably a little unreasonable even a professional FDM machine is not available in that size.

I was going for commercially available ones, but the other game has more than I care to research.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2014 03:37PM by MrDoctorDIV.

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Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

Here is a 40k$ model of roughly your desired proportions [bigrep.de]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2014 04:44PM by sungod3k.

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MrDoctorDIV

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Ohmarinus

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MrDoctorDIV
Biggest one I know of, and good luck affording that, let alone building one as stable at a larger dimension.

Hahaha, what a tiny thing!

This printer overrules them all!!!!
[vimeo.com]

Quote
cnc dick
That size is probably a little unreasonable even a professional FDM machine is not available in that size.

I was going for commercially available ones, but the other game has more than I care to research.

Here in the Netherlands, DUS architects is also talking about printing houses.. I think it's a terrible idea

But, product design, like what I showed you before, is still within the desired scale i.m.o.

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http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/

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Ohmarinus
Here in the Netherlands, DUS architects is also talking about printing houses.. I think it's a terrible idea

Frankly, I think the houses printed in China are pretty impressive inspite of being only the most basic house profile, their method has some pretty great potential, printing a vertical slice, waiting for it to dry and then tilting it up. If someone comes up with a good rigid-but-removable support material that can withstand the concrete drying against it, then the method can really become viable for complex shapes.

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Feign

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Ohmarinus
Here in the Netherlands, DUS architects is also talking about printing houses.. I think it's a terrible idea

Frankly, I think the houses printed in China are pretty impressive inspite of being only the most basic house profile, their method has some pretty great potential, printing a vertical slice, waiting for it to dry and then tilting it up. If someone comes up with a good rigid-but-removable support material that can withstand the concrete drying against it, then the method can really become viable for complex shapes.

Well, in the Netherlands, we create houses by putting up just a few walls and pouring concrete in between. The roof is made with premade concrete and most of the concrete is poured in-situ.

I think it's still kind of useless to create new processes as an efficient method. However it does have it's charmes. And might be a nice project for one-off houses. But still, it feels cheesy Come on, bricks are so beautiful, I did a brick-design course last semester, and it was awesome. There is so much possible with clay and bricks... Why don't we use what we already have?

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http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/

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Ohmarinus
Why don't we use what we already have?

Now that just sounds like a silly question around here...

One thing to consider is that China went through a rash of minor disasters because of brick theves. I know the concept of stealing bricks out from under the building directly over one's head to resell to shady construction companies at pennies a piece seems like the dumbest crime ever invented, but in China it happens. Enough that they want to move away from brick-based construction.

Right now, the "house printing" (I wish there was a different term for it, as it's pretty far removed from 3D printers) technology they have only makes the most basic of structures, but that's more due to a lack of programming than the technology itself. In a year or two, they'll have some things coming off of these that you just can't do with mold making.

EDIT: Looks like China has another house printer, though this one looks more like a corporate publicity stunt, but it's pretty impressive looking nonetheless.

the article on 3Ders says it uses a "graphene and glass fiber reinforced plastic" to print, but then later says it uses about 60% recycled concrete, so who even knows... I seriously doubt it actually uses graphene, but at such a large scale, using fiberglass reinforcement makes a lot of sense.

...The article goes on to say how envoronmentally friendly it is, but that's probably the best joke I've heard all week. (Sometimes 3Ders is pretty bad about translating Chinese articles without researching a bit to knock the propaganda parts out of it.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2014 12:06PM by Feign.